NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

NU
22
46%
Duke
8
17%
CLS
18
38%
 
Total votes: 48

lawskyandhutch
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:01 am

NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby lawskyandhutch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:29 pm

So, final decision time will be here soon. I'm choosing between Northwestern ($90,000), Duke ($67,500), and Columbia ($15,000 total, not per year).

I don't know what kind of law I want to do. I'm interested in econ/public policy, so it might be cool to go into antitrust or something. But I'm also open to corporate law, or even working in business.

For me, I think it comes down to 2 questions:

1) Does anyone have a sense of how the LRAP differs at these places? I'm doing research about it, but if anyone has a helpful summary that would be nice.

2) Are there many jobs one could likely get out of CLS but basically could not get out of NU or Duke? There's not some particular law firm I strongly desire to work for. And I'm open to working in NYC, Chicago, DC, or even West Coast or Philly area (I've lived all over). But are there some amazing jobs at DoJ or elsewhere where one basically needs to have gone to CCN or better to get looked at?

lawskyandhutch
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:01 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby lawskyandhutch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:39 pm

Do any of the pro-Duke people want to elaborate? I'm quite open-minded on these questions.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:42 pm

NU is the choice hear. Though Duke wouldn't be an insane choice either.

I can't think of anything you can easily get from CLS that you can't get from NU.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:46 pm

lawskyandhutch wrote:2) Are there many jobs one could likely get out of CLS but basically could not get out of NU or Duke? There's not some particular law firm I strongly desire to work for. And I'm open to working in NYC, Chicago, DC, or even West Coast or Philly area (I've lived all over). But are there some amazing jobs at DoJ or elsewhere where one basically needs to have gone to CCN or better to get looked at?


I am comparing NU and NYU and have yet to come across any job where NU is completely out. Basically every firm out there is willing to hire NU grads, although they may have substantially fewer of them than CLS grads. Clerkships are all still open if you are in the top of your class. Academia is challenging from both, certainly more attainable at CLS, but apparently not out of the question at NU.

You will have a lot more leeway in terms of class rank at CLS than you do at NU (or Duke). I would probably take the money at NU since COL and QOL will be higher (IMO) in Chicago than they are in New York or Durham. It would also leave you some financial flexibility that CLS will not.

Absolutely no reason to accept less money from Duke, IMO.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18422
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby bk1 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:51 pm

bdubs wrote:Absolutely no reason to accept less money from Duke, IMO.


Difference in original CoA? Duke is about 10k more than NU once scholarships are factored in. I would lean towards NU but I think if OP actually prefers Duke then it wouldn't be unreasonable to take Duke in this situation considering the marginal difference in cost.

As for LRAP's, this is the TLS summary of them (http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guide-to-lrap.html), but it might be outdated.

lakerfanimal
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:22 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby lakerfanimal » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:57 pm

Almost exact same situation as you in terms of the schools but no money at CLS. Have you visited?? I didn't see myself living in Chicago or Durham and being happy. I also have family really close to CLS and specific clinics at CLS that draw me there. If you're as open with your interests as you say, I think you should go to NU or Duke. The cost between those two isn't going to be a 30k difference over 3 years because COL is dirt cheap in Durham and a lot more expensive in Chicago. Someone already mentioned the leeway in terms of class rank (more at CLS than the other two), and you should figure out how much that little extra buffer is worth to you.

lawskyandhutch
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:01 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby lawskyandhutch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:34 pm

I think NYC and Chicago would both be fine. Durham seems sleepy, but maybe Raleigh is interesting?

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:55 pm

Not enough of a $ difference for me, I would go to CLS easily here.

lawskyandhutch
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:01 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby lawskyandhutch » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:57 pm

Can you elaborate? (I mean that sincerely.)

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:13 pm

All three choices are great, no doubt about it. There is no job you'll be completely shot out of if you went to either of these schools. With that said, for 75k more you will get Columbia. CLS places anywhere in any field. Most V10 firms have just as many CLS grads as they do HYS grads, especially in NY obviously. Academia is also obtainable from CLS. While all those are also obtainable from NU, I feel like Nu competes with the rest of the T14 while CLS leaves everyone in the dust besides at most the T6 (why I say at most is because in my opinion CLS is only superseded by HYS). If NU offered you their 120k scholly I would take NU most likely, but I like CLS here. I will say there are valid arguments for both sides, this is just my personal opinion.

WhirledWorld
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:04 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby WhirledWorld » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:24 pm

.
Last edited by WhirledWorld on Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:03 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:All three choices are great, no doubt about it. There is no job you'll be completely shot out of if you went to either of these schools. With that said, for 75k more you will get Columbia. CLS places anywhere in any field. Most V10 firms have just as many CLS grads as they do HYS grads, especially in NY obviously. Academia is also obtainable from CLS. While all those are also obtainable from NU, I feel like Nu competes with the rest of the T14 while CLS leaves everyone in the dust besides at most the T6 (why I say at most is because in my opinion CLS is only superseded by HYS). If NU offered you their 120k scholly I would take NU most likely, but I like CLS here. I will say there are valid arguments for both sides, this is just my personal opinion.


Basically the trade off is 75K for about 15% less placement in big law. So the question is would you pay 75K for 15% higher class rank before you get to see your grades for 1L? It's not an easy call but I'd take NU or Duke.

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:10 pm

CLS= way more prestigious than NU or Duke. When I think of the best law schools I personally think YHS; Columbia; then on down. Obviously, NU and Duke are great schools that can open most if not all of the same doors in many cases, but I think having Columbia on the resume is quite a bit different than NU or Duke, even if it is partly a matter of lay prestige.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:12 pm

Lawquacious wrote:CLS= way more prestigious than NU or Duke. When I think of the best law schools I personally think YHS; Columbia; then on down. Obviously, NU and Duke are great schools that can open most if not all of the same doors in many cases, but I think having Columbia on the resume is quite a bit different than NU or Duke, even if it is partly a matter of lay prestige.


Lay prestige shouldn't be a factor at all, especially since it's entirely regional, and it doesn't get you a job.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby beachbum » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Basically the trade off is 75K for about 15% less placement in big law. So the question is would you pay 75K for 15% higher class rank before you get to see your grades for 1L?

lawskyandhutch
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:01 am

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby lawskyandhutch » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:05 am

Thanks all. These are very helpful!

User avatar
shortporch
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:13 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby shortporch » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:54 am

Could I ask, is it common to inject "academia" as an element of discussion in every thread? The original post didn't mention anything about academia, which is a fairly narrow and difficult field to enter. But then a number of posters below pontificate about how X school is better than Y school for academia. Any reason why this is a commonly-added theme?

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:58 am

shortporch wrote:Could I ask, is it common to inject "academia" as an element of discussion in every thread? The original post didn't mention anything about academia, which is a fairly narrow and difficult field to enter. But then a number of posters below pontificate about how X school is better than Y school for academia. Any reason why this is a commonly-added theme?


It is the hardest area to get a job in, OP asked if any jobs were precluded by attending a lower T14 instead of a T6. Professor seems like the most likely job to fall off the list, hence its inclusion in the discussion.

User avatar
4815162342
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby 4815162342 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:50 am

Duke 1L here looking for just a short break from studying for finals. I think this is an interesting conversation. I don't know OP's full situation and desires, but I have some observations.

First, don't forget the differences in costs of living. I was considering NYU last year, but decided against it, in part, because it would cost at least twice as much, and maybe more like 3x as much, to live in NYC than Durham. The differences in scholarship money get magnified by cost of living disparities. (Of course, Chicago v. NYC is a different calculation.) I am of the opinion that, when it comes to law schools, there are the top three, and then the rest of the T14. Do well at 3-14 and you can get what you want. Don't, and it doesn't matter where you went to school. OP will pay a hefty sum to, basically, go to law school in NYC, so he/she has to decide whether that's worth the cost.

Second, take academia out of the discussion (true for almost all of these conversations). It's really, really, hard to be an academic. That becomes more clear after you get to school If you don't already have the strong inclination that you are going into academia, you probably aren't. If you already have demonstrated that you can be an academic, then you probably got into HYS. But there are plenty of great law jobs outside of the academy.

Third, Durham is definitely "sleepier" than NYC or Chicago. That can't be argued. But don't forget, you will have neither TIME nor MONEY to enjoy the city. Your job in law school is to GET GOOD GRADES. Lose focus, and you lose. Durham has great coffee shops and Duke has a nice library. What else do you need? You'll find a social life wherever you go to school, and there is all the nightlife in Durham that you have time for. (BTW, Raleigh is not close. But Chapel Hill is.)

Sounds like either NU or Duke is the reasonable choice for you (unless NYC is worth $100K). See which one you like better.

Okay, back to work. Attempt liability for crim!

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:23 am

4815162342 wrote:First, don't forget the differences in costs of living. I was considering NYU last year, but decided against it, in part, because it would cost at least twice as much, and maybe more like 3x as much, to live in NYC than Durham. The differences in scholarship money get magnified by cost of living disparities. (Of course, Chicago v. NYC is a different calculation.)


I assumed this as well, until I visited Durham. The rents in the buildings which law students frequently rent out were higher than I expected (~$1000). You could get an apartment near NU for not much more, albeit smaller and or older.

Agreed that NYC is on a totally different level than either Chicago or Durham, but I would actually check into how big those COL differences are before you buy into that mentality.

User avatar
edgarfigaro
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby edgarfigaro » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:50 am

bdubs wrote:
4815162342 wrote:First, don't forget the differences in costs of living. I was considering NYU last year, but decided against it, in part, because it would cost at least twice as much, and maybe more like 3x as much, to live in NYC than Durham. The differences in scholarship money get magnified by cost of living disparities. (Of course, Chicago v. NYC is a different calculation.)


I assumed this as well, until I visited Durham. The rents in the buildings which law students frequently rent out were higher than I expected (~$1000). You could get an apartment near NU for not much more, albeit smaller and or older.

Agreed that NYC is on a totally different level than either Chicago or Durham, but I would actually check into how big those COL differences are before you buy into that mentality.


If you're paying 1k/month for an apartment in Durham, you're doing it wrong. I paid $450 for 600 sq feet, including a washer/dryer, within a 5 minute bike ride of the lawschool.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby bdubs » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:59 am

edgarfigaro wrote:If you're paying 1k/month for an apartment in Durham, you're doing it wrong. I paid $450 for 600 sq feet, including a washer/dryer, within a 5 minute bike ride of the lawschool.


I admit I asked Fuqua students, but they said that a lot of law school students lived in their buildings too.

User avatar
beachbum
Posts: 2766
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: NU ($$$) vs. Duke ($$$) vs. CLS (tiny $)

Postby beachbum » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:59 am

edgarfigaro wrote:
bdubs wrote:
4815162342 wrote:First, don't forget the differences in costs of living. I was considering NYU last year, but decided against it, in part, because it would cost at least twice as much, and maybe more like 3x as much, to live in NYC than Durham. The differences in scholarship money get magnified by cost of living disparities. (Of course, Chicago v. NYC is a different calculation.)


I assumed this as well, until I visited Durham. The rents in the buildings which law students frequently rent out were higher than I expected (~$1000). You could get an apartment near NU for not much more, albeit smaller and or older.

Agreed that NYC is on a totally different level than either Chicago or Durham, but I would actually check into how big those COL differences are before you buy into that mentality.


If you're paying 1k/month for an apartment in Durham, you're doing it wrong. I paid $450 for 600 sq feet, including a washer/dryer, within a 5 minute bike ride of the lawschool.


+1, dunno what apartments you were looking at, but $1k/month is insane. You can get a NICE apartment (see: Alexan Garrett, Addington) for a little more than half that, especially if you have a roommate.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests