Where should I go in CA?

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Where should I go in CA?

USC: $0 aid
36
55%
UCI: 1/3rd tuition scholarship (renewable w/ good academic standing)
30
45%
 
Total votes: 66

ViP
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby ViP » Tue May 03, 2011 12:34 pm

dswimmer wrote:
ku1185 wrote:I'm surprised nobody is advocating for UCI. It's still not cheap (do you live in SD? You could technically commute, especially your 2nd and 3rd years to increase the debt gap from USC), but it may be a better location for you since it'd be much easier to start networking in the SD area than it would be from Hastings or Davis. I personally enjoyed my UCI visit and I would personally keep it as a viable option if I were in your shoes.


I live in Irvine right now, so it wouldn't be a hard transition, but I'm concerned about riding my education on the star power of one man...what if he leaves? Plus, there is no data for bar passage and employment statistics...I'm definitely holding on to this option, though.


Your education wouldn't be riding on the reputation of one man at all. The entire faculty is hugely accomplished and renowned. Also, you'd have the support of a cooperative, intelligent student body and an Orange County business and legal community that has been fawning over UCI and its students since the school first opened its doors.

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vamedic03
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby vamedic03 » Tue May 03, 2011 12:40 pm

ViP wrote:
dswimmer wrote:
ku1185 wrote:I'm surprised nobody is advocating for UCI. It's still not cheap (do you live in SD? You could technically commute, especially your 2nd and 3rd years to increase the debt gap from USC), but it may be a better location for you since it'd be much easier to start networking in the SD area than it would be from Hastings or Davis. I personally enjoyed my UCI visit and I would personally keep it as a viable option if I were in your shoes.


I live in Irvine right now, so it wouldn't be a hard transition, but I'm concerned about riding my education on the star power of one man...what if he leaves? Plus, there is no data for bar passage and employment statistics...I'm definitely holding on to this option, though.


Your education wouldn't be riding on the reputation of one man at all. The entire faculty is hugely accomplished and renowned. Also, you'd have the support of a cooperative, intelligent student body and an Orange County business and legal community that has been fawning over UCI and its students since the school first opened its doors.


Or you can go to a well-established Top 20 school that isn't adding to the glut of law schools. The last thing California, or the United States, needed was another law school.

ETA - I'm sure there are plenty of bright, capable students and professors at UCI; but, that doesn't change the fact that the US is cranking out far more lawyers/year than needed.

amissionsix
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby amissionsix » Tue May 03, 2011 1:57 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Or you can go to a well-established Top 20 school that isn't adding to the glut of law schools. The last thing California, or the United States, needed was another law school.

ETA - I'm sure there are plenty of bright, capable students and professors at UCI; but, that doesn't change the fact that the US is cranking out far more lawyers/year than needed.


I agree that there are too many lawyers being churned out, but UCI having a law school doesn't (in my opinion) increase the number of students attending law school. All those people at UCI would have just gone somewhere else if it didn't exist.

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Tue May 03, 2011 2:34 pm

amissionsix wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
Or you can go to a well-established Top 20 school that isn't adding to the glut of law schools. The last thing California, or the United States, needed was another law school.

ETA - I'm sure there are plenty of bright, capable students and professors at UCI; but, that doesn't change the fact that the US is cranking out far more lawyers/year than needed.


I agree that there are too many lawyers being churned out, but UCI having a law school doesn't (in my opinion) increase the number of students attending law school. All those people at UCI would have just gone somewhere else if it didn't exist.


Agreed. I just worry about UCI having no hard data to back up it's "top 20" feel.

ViP
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby ViP » Tue May 03, 2011 6:46 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
ViP wrote:
dswimmer wrote:
ku1185 wrote:I'm surprised nobody is advocating for UCI. It's still not cheap (do you live in SD? You could technically commute, especially your 2nd and 3rd years to increase the debt gap from USC), but it may be a better location for you since it'd be much easier to start networking in the SD area than it would be from Hastings or Davis. I personally enjoyed my UCI visit and I would personally keep it as a viable option if I were in your shoes.


I live in Irvine right now, so it wouldn't be a hard transition, but I'm concerned about riding my education on the star power of one man...what if he leaves? Plus, there is no data for bar passage and employment statistics...I'm definitely holding on to this option, though.


Your education wouldn't be riding on the reputation of one man at all. The entire faculty is hugely accomplished and renowned. Also, you'd have the support of a cooperative, intelligent student body and an Orange County business and legal community that has been fawning over UCI and its students since the school first opened its doors.


Or you can go to a well-established Top 20 school that isn't adding to the glut of law schools. The last thing California, or the United States, needed was another law school.

ETA - I'm sure there are plenty of bright, capable students and professors at UCI; but, that doesn't change the fact that the US is cranking out far more lawyers/year than needed.


Whether or not you like the fact that UCI exists doesn't determine whether or not OP should consider attending.

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vamedic03
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby vamedic03 » Tue May 03, 2011 8:06 pm

ViP wrote:
Whether or not you like the fact that UCI exists doesn't determine whether or not OP should consider attending.


Well, the OP has the choice between attending an established T20 (USC) or a school that has existed for all of 2(?) years. People have been talking about some mythical, meteoric rise for UCI. But, it hasn't been proven - the place isn't accredited, it doesn't have an alumni pool, it has no track record for post grad placement or clerkship placement.

UCI might be right for some people, but there's a lot of propaganda coming out of that place. OP, and anyone else considering attending UCI, should be very cautious in making that decision.

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Thu May 05, 2011 12:56 pm

I emailed Dean Chemerinsky yesterday to discuss my concerns and he responded very quickly and thoroughly. I completely understand that what he says has to be taken with a grain of salt, but I did like that he was so responsive. It makes me think that the professors, etc. make themselves very available to their students, which is a big positive for me. Also, I should note that he didn't unequivocally say come to UCI. I asked him for his opinions on all of the schools that I am still considering and listed my concerns about each and he responded to each one with other positives and negatives.

Yes, UCI is a huge risk, but so is USD's scholarship stipulation and job prospects (outside of SD), USC's tremendous debt load from day 1, and Davis' pull back to southern California, debt, etc.

I don't see any of my choices as being risk-free or even more/less risky than the others. If I did, I would have more schools eliminated by now. Instead it's a trade-off between employment risk vs. debt risk vs. some combination of the two.

crit_racer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby crit_racer » Thu May 05, 2011 1:24 pm

I think UCI is your best option. Sticker at USC is a lot of debt, and UC Davis is far away from your desired market and presents logistical concerns. USD just isn't very good and would be awful if you lost your scholly.

I'm not saying UCI will be T20 or anything, but I'd be willing to bet that it becomes a well respected law school that will do well for you in SoCal. After all, there isn't a single UC law school that isn't well respected, and every possible indicator points in the direction of UCI turning out to be a strong school.

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Thu May 05, 2011 1:31 pm

crit_racer wrote:I think UCI is your best option. Sticker at USC is a lot of debt, and UC Davis is far away from your desired market and presents logistical concerns. USD just isn't very good and would be awful if you lost your scholly.

I'm not saying UCI will be T20 or anything, but I'd be willing to bet that it becomes a well respected law school that will do well for you in SoCal. After all, there isn't a single UC law school that isn't well respected, and every possible indicator points in the direction of UCI turning out to be a strong school.


I honestly never thought I would say this about UCI, but I'm starting to think that you are right...

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Fri May 06, 2011 12:29 pm

Wow. This poll is much tighter than I thought it would be between USC, UCI, and USD. The fact that Davis isn't faring well reaffirms my feelings about it. Does anyone think that I should keep UCD in consideration (and why)?

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Tue May 17, 2011 11:54 pm

It's UCI vs. USC now.

I might have half tuition at USC, but I probably won't know for another few weeks. UCI might also up me to half tuition, but I won't know until next week at the earliest....basically, the funding is completely uncertain :? Thoughts?

071816
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby 071816 » Wed May 18, 2011 12:36 am

UCI

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Lasers
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby Lasers » Wed May 18, 2011 12:49 am

usc and don't look back, imo.

newbruin45
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby newbruin45 » Wed May 18, 2011 1:08 am

Take advice from someone who has actually been through OCI in Southern California, going to UCI would be the biggest mistake of your life. Do you understand why certain firms interview at certain schools? It's not the USNEWS ranking. Texas isn't going to suddenly start getting more grads in biglaw because they jumped into the T14 this year. It isn't because the school has a famous Dean. It is 95% alumni connections. That is why UCI is a terrible choice. BigLaw firms in LA have tons of UCLA and USC grads and not surprisingly they want to hire UCLA and USC grads. Medium and smaller firms have a lot of Loyola and Southwestern grads and often they hire those students. UCI has nothing and won't for many years.

$200,000 debt with a 33% shot at biglaw or $150,000 with a 10% shot at biglaw. This isn't a tough choice. FYI: San Diego is a tough market if you want biglaw because it's quite small. I know people who got jobs there but they had ties and top 10% (or better) grades + law review. If you're happy with LA, USC is a great choice. Alternatively if you have ties and do really well San Diego is possible as well from that school. I think it would be really tough from UCI.

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dpk711
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dpk711 » Wed May 18, 2011 1:09 am

newbruin45 wrote:Take advice from someone who has actually been through OCI in Southern California, going to UCI would be the biggest mistake of your life. Do you understand why certain firms interview at certain schools? It's not the USNEWS ranking. Texas isn't going to suddenly start getting more grads in biglaw because they jumped into the T14 this year. It isn't because the school has a famous Dean. It is 95% alumni connections. That is why UCI is a terrible choice. BigLaw firms in LA have tons of UCLA and USC grads and not surprisingly they want to hire UCLA and USC grads. Medium and smaller firms have a lot of Loyola and Southwestern grads and often they hire those students. UCI has nothing and won't for many years.

$200,000 debt with a 33% shot at biglaw or $150,000 with a 10% shot at biglaw. This isn't a tough choice. FYI: San Diego is a tough market if you want biglaw because it's quite small. I know people who got jobs there but they had ties and top 10% (or better) grades + law review. If you're happy with LA, USC is a great choice. Alternatively if you have ties and do really well San Diego is possible as well from that school. I think it would be really tough from UCI.

This. It astounds me how UCI is currently winning in your poll OP. Don't be fooled and make the right decision, which is USC.

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Lasers
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby Lasers » Wed May 18, 2011 1:13 am

dpk711 wrote:
newbruin45 wrote:Take advice from someone who has actually been through OCI in Southern California, going to UCI would be the biggest mistake of your life. Do you understand why certain firms interview at certain schools? It's not the USNEWS ranking. Texas isn't going to suddenly start getting more grads in biglaw because they jumped into the T14 this year. It isn't because the school has a famous Dean. It is 95% alumni connections. That is why UCI is a terrible choice. BigLaw firms in LA have tons of UCLA and USC grads and not surprisingly they want to hire UCLA and USC grads. Medium and smaller firms have a lot of Loyola and Southwestern grads and often they hire those students. UCI has nothing and won't for many years.

$200,000 debt with a 33% shot at biglaw or $150,000 with a 10% shot at biglaw. This isn't a tough choice. FYI: San Diego is a tough market if you want biglaw because it's quite small. I know people who got jobs there but they had ties and top 10% (or better) grades + law review. If you're happy with LA, USC is a great choice. Alternatively if you have ties and do really well San Diego is possible as well from that school. I think it would be really tough from UCI.

This. It astounds me how UCI is currently winning in your poll OP. Don't be fooled and make the right decision, which is USC.

yeah. honestly, it shouldn't even be close. the only other choice besides usc that made any sense was hastings with 20k+ per year; since that was off the table a while ago, i don't even see any other competition.

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Tue May 24, 2011 12:44 am

Lasers wrote:
dpk711 wrote:
newbruin45 wrote:Take advice from someone who has actually been through OCI in Southern California, going to UCI would be the biggest mistake of your life. Do you understand why certain firms interview at certain schools? It's not the USNEWS ranking. Texas isn't going to suddenly start getting more grads in biglaw because they jumped into the T14 this year. It isn't because the school has a famous Dean. It is 95% alumni connections. That is why UCI is a terrible choice. BigLaw firms in LA have tons of UCLA and USC grads and not surprisingly they want to hire UCLA and USC grads. Medium and smaller firms have a lot of Loyola and Southwestern grads and often they hire those students. UCI has nothing and won't for many years.

$200,000 debt with a 33% shot at biglaw or $150,000 with a 10% shot at biglaw. This isn't a tough choice. FYI: San Diego is a tough market if you want biglaw because it's quite small. I know people who got jobs there but they had ties and top 10% (or better) grades + law review. If you're happy with LA, USC is a great choice. Alternatively if you have ties and do really well San Diego is possible as well from that school. I think it would be really tough from UCI.

This. It astounds me how UCI is currently winning in your poll OP. Don't be fooled and make the right decision, which is USC.

yeah. honestly, it shouldn't even be close. the only other choice besides usc that made any sense was hastings with 20k+ per year; since that was off the table a while ago, i don't even see any other competition.


Sorry I've been MIA (work was crazy last week). I'm surprised with the results right now, too. Unfortunately, I just didn't see Hastings as a good choice for me for numerous personal reasons more than anything else. For the cost, moving that far away from everything I know and want wasn't worth it when I had cheaper or similar options locally. I want USC or UCI to wow me, but neither really does. I'm starting to think this is all a very, very bad choice.

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dswimmer
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby dswimmer » Tue May 24, 2011 3:54 pm

50/50?!? lol. That's how I feel already (hence the poll). More input would be definitely appreciated!

071816
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby 071816 » Tue May 24, 2011 4:04 pm

I think it's time for you to bite the bullet and just make the decision for yourself. This thread may have outlived its usefulness.

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bjsesq
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby bjsesq » Tue May 24, 2011 4:06 pm

No school outside of the T6 is worth sticker. USC doesn't place well enough to justify that cost. I'd go with UCI.

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bk1
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby bk1 » Tue May 24, 2011 4:08 pm

dswimmer wrote:50/50?!? lol. That's how I feel already (hence the poll). More input would be definitely appreciated!


USC.

UCI CoA - ~$160k (source: http://reg.uci.edu/fees/2011-2012/law.html and http://www.law.uci.edu/financial_aid/co ... rrent.html)
USC CoA - ~$200k (source: http://lawweb.usc.edu/how/gip/llm/fees.cfm)

UCI is still way too expensive and risky (due to unknown employment options) to justify taking over USC. I honestly think this decision seems pretty easy. As I said earlier in this thread, if we were talking about $120k debt or less coming from someplace like UCD/UCH (which UCI seems like it would be comparable to) then that would be the option to go with. However you don't really have that option and you're stuck with UCI at $160k debt and that is just way too risky to justify saving yourself only $40-50k over USC while still ending up $150k or more in debt.

This isn't to say that USC is worth sticker because I think it is absurdly risky, but I really think that your chances of paying off debt in a reasonable amount of time is higher at USC than it is at UCI.
Last edited by bk1 on Tue May 24, 2011 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

071816
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby 071816 » Tue May 24, 2011 4:08 pm

bjsesq wrote:No school outside of the T6 is worth sticker. USC doesn't place well enough to justify that cost. I'd go with UCI.


Different schools are worth sticker to different people. However, it doesn't appear that USC would be worth sticker to OP.

Curry

Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby Curry » Tue May 24, 2011 4:08 pm

bk1 wrote:
dswimmer wrote:50/50?!? lol. That's how I feel already (hence the poll). More input would be definitely appreciated!


USC.

UCI CoA - ~$160k (source: http://reg.uci.edu/fees/2011-2012/law.html and http://www.law.uci.edu/financial_aid/co ... rrent.html)
USC CoA - ~$200k (source: http://lawweb.usc.edu/how/gip/llm/fees.cfm)

UCI is still way too expensive and risky (due to unknown employment options) to justify taking over USC. I honestly think this decision seems pretty easy. As I said earlier in this thread, if we were talking about $120k debt or less coming from someplace like UCD/UCH (which UCI seems like it would be comparable to) then that would be the option to go with. However you don't really have that option and you're stuck with UCI at $160k debt and that is just way too risky to justify saving yourself only $40-50k over USC while still ending up $150k or more in debt.

Will you marry me?

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bjsesq
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Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby bjsesq » Tue May 24, 2011 4:10 pm

chimp wrote:
bjsesq wrote:No school outside of the T6 is worth sticker. USC doesn't place well enough to justify that cost. I'd go with UCI.


Different schools are worth sticker to different people. However, it doesn't appear that USC would be worth sticker to OP.


Subjective worth=objectively stupid for most schools when it's at sticker.

Curry

Re: Where should I go in CA?

Postby Curry » Tue May 24, 2011 4:11 pm

bjsesq wrote:
chimp wrote:
bjsesq wrote:No school outside of the T6 is worth sticker. USC doesn't place well enough to justify that cost. I'd go with UCI.


Different schools are worth sticker to different people. However, it doesn't appear that USC would be worth sticker to OP.


Subjective worth=objectively stupid for most schools when it's at sticker.

UCI hasn't had a class go through an OCI yet.




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