UPenn vs. Columbia PLEASE HELP

[sonervous88]

okay i know this is ridiculous but is columbia worth 50K more in tuition plus the cost of living when compared with UPenn? I don't particularly like NYC. really like international law and public service. really don't like debt. really confused.

All money is over three years.

[ZXCVBNM]

if you don't want big law, don't want to live in nyc, and don't want debt then go to penn

[sonervous88]

thanks! i'm leaning towards Penn too im just not sure if its stupid to give up Columbia over 50K

[r6_philly]

Why would you want to take on like 140k debt if you don't want big law? Also if you don't like NYC... all 3 are feeder schools to NYC. So if you want to do something different somewhere else, not having debt may be more important. I'd be tempted to take Cornell, without knowing more of your motivations. That leaves you with less than 75k debt, less if you live frugally and get a paid summer job.

[eaa1537]

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[sonervous88]

Why would you want to take on like 140k debt if you don't want big law? Also if you don't like NYC... all 3 are feeder schools to NYC. So if you want to do something different somewhere else, not having debt may be more important. I'd be tempted to take Cornell, without knowing more of your motivations. That leaves you with less than 75k debt, less if you live frugally and get a paid summer job.

hi r6! i have enough for living expenses for at least two years in ithaca or philadelphia (i also have the option of living with family at any of the three locations: i'm italian lol)

yeah big law is definitely not for me, but i also really didn't like cornell as much as i liked upenn and columbia (which is why i'm discounting it to some degree) my main concern is whether coming from columbia vs. upenn will give me a substantial boost for the public interest jobs i'm interested in (ie DOJ honors) that's really the only reason i'd do it.

[sonervous88]

I'm choosing Columbia over Penn with the same scholarships as you. My reasons: want to be in NY, I like the Columbia name, and in the long run I hope 50k will be meaningless, although I guess with COL it'll be more around 75k. But if you don't want to be in NY, then by all means take the cheaper route

thanks! i really like the name too. i hate that i care about prestige. i always thought i wouldnt. good luck though!

[r6_philly]

hi r6! i have enough for living expenses for at least two years in ithaca or philadelphia (i also have the option of living with family at any of the three locations: i'm italian lol)

yeah big law is definitely not for me, but i also really didn't like cornell as much as i liked upenn and columbia (which is why i'm discounting it to some degree) my main concern is whether coming from columbia vs. upenn will give me a substantial boost for the public interest jobs i'm interested in (ie DOJ honors) that's really the only reason i'd do it.

I don't know much about Columbia but general feeling about Penn in DC is good. There are more than 1 programs on the general campus that help to place Penn grads in DC, and you will run into alums everywhere. I think you would be fine out of Penn, and you need to investigate how much better (if) you are out of Columbia and weigh that against the price. Do some data mining on the positions you want to get, and see what the placement is like for both schools while keeping in mind that Columbia class is twice as big. You can't go wrong with either, but if prospects are similar then maybe it wouldn't be worth the extra cost.

[r6_philly]

I'm choosing Columbia over Penn with the same scholarships as you. My reasons: want to be in NY, I like the Columbia name, and in the long run I hope 50k will be meaningless, although I guess with COL it'll be more around 75k. But if you don't want to be in NY, then by all means take the cheaper route

thanks! i really like the name too. i hate that i care about prestige. i always thought i wouldnt. good luck though!

I like the Columbia name too (so does my mom lol). If I liked NYC I would def. choose Columbia. But I don't think I like the name enough to endure 3 years of NYC. I think the values are close between the 2, so where you want to go is key.

[sonervous88]

I'm choosing Columbia over Penn with the same scholarships as you. My reasons: want to be in NY, I like the Columbia name, and in the long run I hope 50k will be meaningless, although I guess with COL it'll be more around 75k. But if you don't want to be in NY, then by all means take the cheaper route

thanks! i really like the name too. i hate that i care about prestige. i always thought i wouldnt. good luck though!

I like the Columbia name too (so does my mom lol). If I liked NYC I would def. choose Columbia. But I don't think I like the name enough to endure 3 years of NYC. I think the values are close between the 2, so where you want to go is key.

Yeah. If that is the determining factor at this point it's all UPenn. r6 have you decided yet?

[r6_philly]

Yeah. If that is the determining factor at this point it's all UPenn. r6 have you decided yet?

Not yet. I really liked Berkeley, but I don't know if I want to pay any extra money for what I like. In my case, the values are not equal/close so I am hoping to make it closer.

[bk1]

Go to CLS, do PI, use their LRAP.

[kellyg1234]

thanks! i'm leaning towards Penn too im just not sure if its stupid to give up Columbia over 50K

I'm in a similar situation. Brand name vs. Cost, etc. I'm choosing UPenn though, I loved the campus and the programs. Penn is still an Ivy League, can't discount that. I went to Berkeley undergrad though, it is a fun school, but if you grew up on the East Coast there will be a little culture shock.

[bk1]

Penn is still an Ivy League, can't discount that.

Since you're going to the law school, you definitely can discount that.

[BarbellDreams]

Go to Columbia. If you do Public Interest they will pay for all of your loans for you with LRAP.

[kellyg1234]

Since you're going to the law school, you definitely can discount that.

I meant for brand recognition's sake, burger king 187.

[bk1]

I meant for brand recognition's sake, burger king 187.

You will be employed by lawyers who value the prestige of the law school and are familiar with and care about that brand, not anything else. They don't give a shit that Penn is ivy and Michigan/Virginia aren't.

[r6_philly]

I meant for brand recognition's sake, burger king 187.

You will be employed by lawyers who value the prestige of the law school and are familiar with and care about that brand, not anything else. They don't give a shit that Penn is ivy and Michigan/Virginia aren't.

Ivy parent university's alumni base is stronger. You will probably find it useful at some point.

[bk1]

Ivy parent university's alumni base is stronger. You will probably find it useful at some point.

That differential seems marginal at best. Columbia's law school is stronger than Penn's, that isn't marginal. To be clear, I'm not advocating Penn or CLS in this post, just making a point.

[sonervous88]

wow i really appreciate the help! Just in case people are curious its 40% UPenn vs. 38% Columbia. so it looks like you all are as confused as i am lol

[drummerboy]

Sorry off topic. Is it safe to say that CLS, for example, would be a better choice at ticket than lets say Emory /Vandy( both with small relatively insignificant Scholly) if ones goal is to practice in the Southeast? Biglaw not being a priority. In other words, can a Columbia degree always trump these no matter where in the country you wish to practice. Is it worth ticket no matter what your aspirations? Ps sorry for this convoluted question but I need an answer. Thanks

[vanwinkle]

I SENTENCE THEE TO PURGATORY!

Er, I mean, you should go to Cornell. Totes.

Never thought I'd write that, but in these circumstances...

[Non-Chalant1]

IF you're leaning DOJ Honors like I am (currently but my mind will almost certainly change in law school because I'm like that)...I want to say Columbia has the better LRAP and you'll be fine taking on that type of career (if you get it). Someone who knows better can compare Penn's, but I'm pretty sure outside of NYU and HYS...that Columbia's LRAP is as good as it gets.

[bk1]

Slightly off topic. Is it safe to say that CLS, for example, would be a better choice at ticket than lets say Emory /Vandy( both with small relatively insignificant Scholly) if ones goal is to practice in the Southeast? Biglaw not being a priority. In other words, can a Columbia degree always trump these no matter where in the country you wish to practice. Is it worth ticket no matter what your aspirations?

(Ignoring that Vandy blows Emory out of the water.)

There are a lot of things to consider. If you're paying sticker at CLS or any other T14 you are going to need to pay that debt back somehow. That will either be through biglaw or through a PI/gov job that will qualify for the school's LRAP. Neither of these things are guaranteed and if you shoot for biglaw and miss, being saddled with CLS debt is going to be awful as you plug away at a small firm in the area you want to work in. But CLS is going to give you an edge versus Vandy in terms of biglaw (assuming you have ties to the area).

So I think if both CLS and Vandy are at sticker, then you should take CLS and shoot for biglaw to pay your debt. But that sort scenario isn't realistic (you should get $ from Vandy) and you shouldn't be paying sticker anywhere if you don't want biglaw or PI/gov.

[Non-Chalant1]

I SENTENCE THEE TO PURGATORY!

Er, I mean, you should go to Cornell. Totes.

Never thought I'd write that, but in these circumstances...

Even if the eyes are on PI?