USC VS Cornell

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
PAR12
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:10 pm

USC VS Cornell

Postby PAR12 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:21 pm

I am having a very hard time making a decision.

As of now it is between USC and Cornell. Both at sticker.

I am also wait listed at Michigan and Penn.

I am from LA and went to undergrad in SD. After Law school I would like to practice corporate law in either LA or Denver. I have no ties to Denver.

I am also considering a JD MBA joint Degree. Cornell has a three year program while USC is 4 years.

The weather does not bother me but one thing to consider is that I have a serious girlfriend that I have been living with for a year. She would not be able to leave LA.

Please offer advise on where in should go.

Ideally I would like to practice in Denver.

Will Cornell give me that much better of a chance to get a good job over USC in Denver?

Should the 3 year JDMBA make a difference?

Thank you for any insight.

User avatar
Moral_Midgetry
Posts: 543
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 3:29 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby Moral_Midgetry » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:25 pm

USC for LA, Cornell for NYC. Based on your post, USC.

User avatar
Horchata
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:09 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby Horchata » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:12 pm

Hey PAR12, I ended up choosing USC FWIW. Hope that helps.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby FiveSermon » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:13 pm

Moral_Midgetry wrote:USC for LA, Cornell for NYC. Based on your post, USC.


TITCR

As for Denver...Cornell is probably better but you would probably need ties to the region anyways from either place.

flexityflex86
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby flexityflex86 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:40 pm

Maybe USC will negotiate with the Cornell acceptance.

I understand you have a serious girlfriend, but you are on a journey and in my opinion a woman should never influence a man's journey (this isn't a sexist thing - I feel the same way vice versa - women just happen to be more romantic). It is easier said than done, and it would be hard for me to leave my girl as I feel we're a great team, but I know I could 100% meet a new woman where as I don't know I can 100% work in my target region not picking the right school.

I don't know about Denver. If Denver is the place, I'd prob say Cornell (unless USC places in Denver). My understanding is USC is great for so-cal and Arizona.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:45 pm

1. Don't do a JD/MBA.

2. Neither is likely to get you Denver. If you really want Denver go to a school in that area.

3. Go to USC, accept you won't end up in Denver, end up working in LA.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:46 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:I understand you have a serious girlfriend, but you are on a journey and in my opinion a woman should never influence a man's journey (this isn't a sexist thing - I feel the same way vice versa - women just happen to be more romantic). It is easier said than done, and it would be hard for me to leave my girl as I feel we're a great team, but I know I could 100% meet a new woman where as I don't know I can 100% work in my target region not picking the right school.


Not that I'm a waxing romantic or anything but the differences between places isn't so drastic that they are the be all end all.

The other problem is that neither of these schools give the OP a leg up in Denver so the point is moot.

flexityflex86
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby flexityflex86 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:48 pm

bk1 wrote:1. Don't do a JD/MBA.

2. Neither is likely to get you Denver. If you really want Denver go to a school in that area.

3. Go to USC, accept you won't end up in Denver, end up working in LA.

I can't imagine the University of Colorado > Cornell even in Denver, really?

Honestly, I think that the regional nature of these schools is somewhat overplayed.

I think, in general, people who go to USC are damn happy with the addictive so-cal weather so they stay.

I think, in general, people who go to Cornell love NYC so they stay.

At a school like Notre Dame, where South Bend sucks so hard, of course nobody stays so it appears to be national when really the kids are just like wow, this sucks. How can I get out of here?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:50 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:I can't imagine the University of Colorado > Cornell even in Denver, really?


OP doesn't have any ties to Denver. Denver firms are going to look at a resume that says "lived in CA entire life, goes to school in NY" and wonder why the fuck that person is applying to a job in Colorado.

flexityflex86
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby flexityflex86 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:53 pm

bk1 wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:I can't imagine the University of Colorado > Cornell even in Denver, really?


OP doesn't have any ties to Denver. Denver firms are going to look at a resume that says "lived in CA entire life, goes to school in NY" and wonder why the fuck that person is applying to a job in Colorado.

Is the process really so superficial?

If it were me, I would agree that Colorado was weird, but I'd read it and think, "He's top half or so at an amazing school (after all, I'm used to looking at tier 2 kids), has pretty good social intelligence and has nothing bad on his resume..... clearly, he's here because he wants to be."

Also, saying your fiance is from Colorado never hurts - just call of the wedding 2 months after you get the position.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:15 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:Is the process really so superficial?

If it were me, I would agree that Colorado was weird, but I'd read it and think, "He's top half or so at an amazing school (after all, I'm used to looking at tier 2 kids), has pretty good social intelligence and has nothing bad on his resume..... clearly, he's here because he wants to be."

Also, saying your fiance is from Colorado never hurts - just call of the wedding 2 months after you get the position.


They don't believe that the person will stay in that area (they don't want to hire someone who is just going to leave) and this is especially compounded by the fact that they know the person has never actually lived there so there is a decent chance that it might not live up to their expectations. They also feel like the person is scrambling for a backup job because for whatever reason the Cornell kid can't find a job in NYC.

Ties to secondary markets really are important.

PAR12
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby PAR12 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:25 pm

First, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to give me some insight.

Why do you say no to JD / MBA, especially if it could be done in 3 years?

Also, I understand it would look strange to Firm in Denver to why as I am applying but as long as I show real interest in living there won't they look past that? I mean wouldn't they understand if I am using my OCI interviews / Job Fair interviews to interview with them instead of a firm in LA or NY that I would really want to be there?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:26 pm

PAR12 wrote:First, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to give me some insight.

Why do you say no to JD / MBA, especially if it could be done in 3 years?

Also, I understand it would look strange to Firm in Denver to why as I am applying but as long as I show real interest in living there won't they look past that? I mean wouldn't they understand if I am using my OCI interviews / Job Fair interviews to interview with them instead of a firm in LA or NY that I would really want to be there?


It would help, but they know that you have never been there so they are scared that you might go there and hate it.

I guess get the JD/MBA if it costs the same amount of $ and time but it won't add any value to you.

barry
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby barry » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:32 pm

Go to Cornell, USC is prolly not worth sticker especially with Cornell on the table

a job in NYC > than no job, but you'll still have a chance to get back to CO and i think Cornell would have the advantage there anyway

the only thing that would give USC the edge would be your gf but only if you are super serious like engagement on the horizon

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:33 pm

barry wrote:Go to Cornell, USC is prolly not worth sticker especially with Cornell on the table

a job in NYC > than no job, but you'll still have a chance to get back to CO and i think Cornell would have the advantage there anyway

the only thing that would give USC the edge would be your gf but only if you are super serious like engagement on the horizon


Cornell is only marginally better than USC. Someone's got their T14 blinders on.

USC's other edge is LA placement.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:34 pm

bk1 wrote:
barry wrote:Go to Cornell, USC is prolly not worth sticker especially with Cornell on the table

a job in NYC > than no job, but you'll still have a chance to get back to CO and i think Cornell would have the advantage there anyway

the only thing that would give USC the edge would be your gf but only if you are super serious like engagement on the horizon


Cornell is only marginally better than USC. Someone's got their T14 blinders on.

USC's other edge is LA placement.


What? 10-15% is marginal now?

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:37 pm

FiveSermon wrote:What? 10-15% is marginal now?


No it isn't, but OP wants LA/Denver so the difference between Cornell/USC for LA (since no Denver ties) is marginal. Heck, I probably misspoke as the difference is actually hugely in USC's favor for getting any LA job. For LA biglaw? I'd imagine the the difference isn't that large and might still skew in USC's favor.

PAR12
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:10 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby PAR12 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:45 pm

Going into corporate law a JD / MBA isnt at all more appealing to an employer that someone with just a JD?

I think those numbers are also skewed due to self selection biased. Most students who go to Cornell want to work in NY and most who go to USC want to work in CA. How much better can a Cornell Degree be than USC?

Cornell
+ Lay Prestige
+ Nothing to do in Ithaca but Study
+ 3 year JD/MBA program
+ Small Community so you form strong ties with classmates
- Ithaca
- How far it is from everything I have ever known

USC
+ Los Angeles
+ Girlfriend, friends, and family
+ Network
- More of a Commuter school although it is still a small class size


Questions -
Will USC limit my employablity in comparison to Cornell?
Would going to school in LA be better than differentiating yourself from everyone else applying for jobs in LA by going to Cornell?
Does A JD / MBA matter?
Is there a difference in either when trying to get to Denver?

Keep in mind I am looking for Big Law
Last edited by PAR12 on Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FiveSermon
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:46 pm

If you want LA, I would go to USC.

User avatar
Magnolia
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby Magnolia » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:49 pm

bk1 wrote:
PAR12 wrote:First, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to give me some insight.

Why do you say no to JD / MBA, especially if it could be done in 3 years?

Also, I understand it would look strange to Firm in Denver to why as I am applying but as long as I show real interest in living there won't they look past that? I mean wouldn't they understand if I am using my OCI interviews / Job Fair interviews to interview with them instead of a firm in LA or NY that I would really want to be there?


It would help, but they know that you have never been there so they are scared that you might go there and hate it.

I guess get the JD/MBA if it costs the same amount of $ and time but it won't add any value to you.

My understanding of the problem with the JD/MBA is that firms are reluctant to hire you because they assume you will jump ship to go in-house first chance you get. And unless you have the work experience to back up the MBA, you won't be able to get a job in business if law falls through. And if you do have the work experience, then you have no reason to get the JD and could just go for your MBA.

User avatar
Law Sauce
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:29 pm

bk1 wrote:
barry wrote:Go to Cornell, USC is prolly not worth sticker especially with Cornell on the table

a job in NYC > than no job, but you'll still have a chance to get back to CO and i think Cornell would have the advantage there anyway

the only thing that would give USC the edge would be your gf but only if you are super serious like engagement on the horizon


Cornell is only marginally better than USC. Someone's got their T14 blinders on.

USC's other edge is LA placement.


While this true in the same sense that Columbia is marginally better than Michigan. Cornell is way better than USC, for all things except Socal.

Also I spoke to JD/MBAs at Cornell, all of whom had great success at AJF (there were only a few JD/MBAs total), it showed the firm they wanted corporate law and went out of their way to get ready for entering the business world as a lawyer. These types of firm liked it. It also shows hard work and is quite difficult and prestigious to pull off.

User avatar
Law Sauce
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:40 pm

PAR12 wrote:Going into corporate law a JD / MBA isnt at all more appealing to an employer that someone with just a JD?
Questions -
Will USC limit my employablity in comparison to Cornell?
Would going to school in LA be better than differentiating yourself from everyone else applying for jobs in LA by going to Cornell?
Does A JD / MBA matter?
Is there a difference in either when trying to get to Denver?


I'd say.

Yes.
It depends, but yes, if you worked your tail off to connect to people and summered there.
Yes, for certain things it is an advantage, probably more helpful for financial powerhouse firms in NYC than LA though, it also may close other doors.
It depends, but probably you will earn more looks coming from Cornell but without the grades from either you will be out of luck. In Denver, you are not competing with t2s, you are competing for spots in a small sa class with people from all the t14s (Denver is a great place and desirable city) and the top of the class from the incumbent in CU Boulder. I was told it would likely take ties and top 1/4 from UVA to have a good shot of getting there (probably similar from Cornell except there are less firms at AGF from Denver than UVA's OGI, with leg-work though the difference is probably not that great). This for Biglaw, there are other options in Denver as well.

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:45 pm

Law Sauce wrote:While this true in the same sense that Columbia is marginally better than Michigan. Cornell is way better than USC, for all things except Socal.


OP wants LA. The fact that Cornell isn't better than USC in SoCal is kind of pertinent.

User avatar
Law Sauce
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby Law Sauce » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:49 pm

bk1 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:While this true in the same sense that Columbia is marginally better than Michigan. Cornell is way better than USC, for all things except Socal.


OP wants LA. The fact that Cornell isn't better than USC in SoCal is kind of pertinent.


True I agree definitely, but also, you dont always get what you want, no job < job somewhere else. Thats all Im saying. You can always come back to LA once you get your biglaw start in NYC. Its very hard to get back into biglaw if you miss that ship the first time. all I'm saying...

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: USC VS Cornell

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:53 pm

Law Sauce wrote:True I agree definitely, but also, you dont always get what you want, no job < job somewhere else. Thats all Im saying. You can always come back to LA once you get your biglaw start in NYC. Its very hard to get back into biglaw if you miss that ship the first time. all I'm saying...


You're being overly dramatic by saying that somehow USC = no job while Cornell = a job.

OP wants LA biglaw which is something that 1/4-1/3 of USC's class gets. While yes 40%ish or so of Cornell's class gets biglaw, it is hard to say whether OP would be successful aiming for LA with grades barely above median from there but I highly doubt it.

On the flip side, since OP is more likely to miss biglaw than hit it (especially once factoring in aiming at LA from Cornell), USC will make it far easier to get an LA job than Cornell.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests