Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

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AmericaninManchuria
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Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby AmericaninManchuria » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:01 pm

The dilemma: I received $8,000 from Rutgers with in-state tuition, and $35,000 from Seton Hall, making Seton Hall the cheaper option by about $4,000 a year. There are so many mixed opinions between these two, I'm not sure there's a clearly correct choice...still I'm leaning towards Seton Hall (as it seems to be on the rise, with R-N moving in the opposite direction, 61 versus 84) but can't get over giving up the "Rutgers" name...

Thoughts..?

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Conan
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby Conan » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:15 pm

I would take Rutgers-N over SH.

Both schools have decent reputation in NJ but Rutgers-N has better employment statistics if I remember correctly.
The fact that Rutgers name carry some weight in NJ (generally speaking) and the huge alumni connection (tho I do'nt know how helpful they are) would tip RU over SH for me.
Well, Rutgers-N was my 2nd choice school so I'm pretty biased toward RU. haha.

AmericaninManchuria
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby AmericaninManchuria » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:21 pm

Conan wrote:I would take Rutgers-N over SH.

Both schools have decent reputation in NJ but Rutgers-N has better employment statistics if I remember correctly.
The fact that Rutgers name carry some weight in NJ (generally speaking) and the huge alumni connection (tho I do'nt know how helpful they are) would tip RU over SH for me.
Well, Rutgers-N was my 2nd choice school so I'm pretty biased toward RU. haha.


Thanks for the advice, the job placement issue was one of my concerns

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gwuorbust
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:23 am

so what would be your total debt from each school?

AmericaninManchuria
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby AmericaninManchuria » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:56 am

I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k

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gwuorbust
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:03 am

AmericaninManchuria wrote:I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k


I think this is a good decision. $23k is very manageable. Best of Luck!!

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mrtoren
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby mrtoren » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:51 pm

AmericaninManchuria wrote:I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k

What are the scholarship stipulations on both? Bear in mind that many students end up losing theirs.

Here are some numbers:
Seton Hall (three years of the same scholarship): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800x3=$98,400 COA
Seton Hall (losing scholarship after first year): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800+$67,800+$67,800=$168,400 COA

Rutgers-Newark (three years of same scholarship): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730x3=$113,190 COA
Rutgers-Newark (losing scholarship after first year): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730+$45,730+$45,730=$129,190 COA

Now, I dont know about you, but $39,210 would be a lot of money and associated stress on my shoulders. Do you really want to go to Seton Hall knowing that you face those consequences if you fail to meet the scholarship stipulations?

HeavenWood
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:21 pm

AmericaninManchuria wrote:I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..[b]I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k[b]


It isn't.

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:08 pm

mrtoren wrote:
AmericaninManchuria wrote:I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k

What are the scholarship stipulations on both? Bear in mind that many students end up losing theirs.

Here are some numbers:
Seton Hall (three years of the same scholarship): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800x3=$98,400 COA
Seton Hall (losing scholarship after first year): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800+$67,800+$67,800=$168,400 COA

Rutgers-Newark (three years of same scholarship): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730x3=$113,190 COA
Rutgers-Newark (losing scholarship after first year): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730+$45,730+$45,730=$129,190 COA

Now, I dont know about you, but $39,210 would be a lot of money and associated stress on my shoulders. Do you really want to go to Seton Hall knowing that you face those consequences if you fail to meet the scholarship stipulations?


Also, the Seton Hall curve is the most terrifying thing I have ever seen (we are potentially adopting a mandatory curve at my school, and they laid out the curves of all of the area schools; the Seton Hall one was BY FAR the worst). The median is like a B- and they have mandatory D-F grades. IMO, for any school with stips, you need to take in mind the COA if you lose your scholarship.

NJcollegestudent
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby NJcollegestudent » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:19 pm

I would select Rutgers-Newark law school for your future career.

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kapital98
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby kapital98 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:36 pm

I'd choose Rutgers only if you want a chance to work in NYC and are risk adverse.

Seton Hall is located right next to NJ's gov't. The scholarship is better.

However, Rutgers scholarship stipulation is relatively easy (top 1/2) and their placement in NYC biglaw is impressive relative to other schools in the T2.

I was accepted at Rutgers with an $8,000 scholarship, too. Try to negotiate for more money. It couldn't hurt.

P.S.: The rankings are completely irrelevant between the schools. Seton Hall is not on the rise and Rutgers is not falling. They have both stayed in the T2 for a very long time. It should be taken as an impressive feat that Rutgers has 2 law schools in the top 100 :P

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mrtoren
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby mrtoren » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:23 pm

kapital98 wrote:Seton Hall is located right next to NJ's gov't.

Both schools are in Newark, right? So I would imagine the geographical advantage is nixed.
kapital98 wrote:P.S.: The rankings are completely irrelevant between the schools. Seton Hall is not on the rise and Rutgers is not falling. They have both stayed in the T2 for a very long time. It should be taken as an impressive feat that Rutgers has 2 law schools in the top 100 :P

This x100000000. Tier two school rankings don't matter. Tier one rankings are arguably irrelevant after the T30..some would go further to the T14. The two schools you're deciding between are probably not going to place you into BigLaw unless you're a rockstar. However, as BigLaw jobs seem to be on the decline, even higher ranked schools are in the same position. If you're looking for MidLaw, public interest or government work, these schools should place you if you're not a complete loser.

Rutgers is the obvious safe choice and at this tier, safety is the number one priority. You may or may not get the six figure salary. Go to the cheapest school you can..and seriously, be wary of scholarship stipulations. Don't overestimate your abilities.

AmericaninManchuria
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby AmericaninManchuria » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:55 pm

keg411 wrote:
mrtoren wrote:
AmericaninManchuria wrote:I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k

What are the scholarship stipulations on both? Bear in mind that many students end up losing theirs.

Here are some numbers:
Seton Hall (three years of the same scholarship): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800x3=$98,400 COA
Seton Hall (losing scholarship after first year): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800+$67,800+$67,800=$168,400 COA

Rutgers-Newark (three years of same scholarship): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730x3=$113,190 COA
Rutgers-Newark (losing scholarship after first year): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730+$45,730+$45,730=$129,190 COA

Now, I dont know about you, but $39,210 would be a lot of money and associated stress on my shoulders. Do you really want to go to Seton Hall knowing that you face those consequences if you fail to meet the scholarship stipulations?


Also, the Seton Hall curve is the most terrifying thing I have ever seen (we are potentially adopting a mandatory curve at my school, and they laid out the curves of all of the area schools; the Seton Hall one was BY FAR the worst). The median is like a B- and they have mandatory D-F grades. IMO, for any school with stips, you need to take in mind the COA if you lose your scholarship.


The above numbers are not correct as Seton Hall's total tuition in fees is about $45,000 and Rutgers Total tuition and fees is about $24,000, both before scholarship.

However, the curve mentioned is terrifying. On one hand I don't know what I would do if I lost the scholarship, but I also would not feel proud of myself if I went to Rutgers, did great, and had an extra $23,000 in debt, because I didn't give myself enough credit...

legallyb
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby legallyb » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:02 pm

Those numbers are the total costs of attendance, not tuition, so they are correct and more realistic to be honest. The first total they put assumes they keep the scholarship and the second assumes they lose it after the first year. I am seriously considering Seton Hall on the same scholarship and am not terrified of being in the top 50%... I plan on doing that well on my own already because if not, your job prospects decrease significantly.

AmericaninManchuria wrote:
keg411 wrote:
mrtoren wrote:
AmericaninManchuria wrote:I just recalculated that the savings is actually a little over $7,000 each year, so my total debt at Seton Hall would be almost $28,000 and total debt at Rutgers would be almost $51,000. That's a savings of $23,000, so that pretty much makes my decision Seton Hall..I'm doubting the Rutgers name is worth an extra 23k

What are the scholarship stipulations on both? Bear in mind that many students end up losing theirs.

Here are some numbers:
Seton Hall (three years of the same scholarship): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800x3=$98,400 COA
Seton Hall (losing scholarship after first year): $67,800-$35,000=$32,800+$67,800+$67,800=$168,400 COA

Rutgers-Newark (three years of same scholarship): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730x3=$113,190 COA
Rutgers-Newark (losing scholarship after first year): $45,730-$8,000=$37,730+$45,730+$45,730=$129,190 COA

Now, I dont know about you, but $39,210 would be a lot of money and associated stress on my shoulders. Do you really want to go to Seton Hall knowing that you face those consequences if you fail to meet the scholarship stipulations?


Also, the Seton Hall curve is the most terrifying thing I have ever seen (we are potentially adopting a mandatory curve at my school, and they laid out the curves of all of the area schools; the Seton Hall one was BY FAR the worst). The median is like a B- and they have mandatory D-F grades. IMO, for any school with stips, you need to take in mind the COA if you lose your scholarship.


The above numbers are not correct as Seton Hall's total tuition in fees is about $45,000 and Rutgers Total tuition and fees is about $24,000, both before scholarship.

However, the curve mentioned is terrifying. On one hand I don't know what I would do if I lost the scholarship, but I also would not feel proud of myself if I went to Rutgers, did great, and had an extra $23,000 in debt, because I didn't give myself enough credit...

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kapital98
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby kapital98 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:31 pm

mrtoren wrote:
kapital98 wrote:Seton Hall is located right next to NJ's gov't.

Both schools are in Newark, right? So I would imagine the geographical advantage is nixed.


I forgot Seton Hall was in Newark. The difference between the schools is location in Newark. Seton Hall is walking distance to all the major gov't buildings. Though, you're right in that not really mattering.

Thanks for the correction. :)

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:13 pm

BTW, this is the information on SHU's curve we were given:

"Seton Hall... has a complicated distribution scheme, which requires, for the 1L class, that 10-25% receive a B- or C+, that 10-25% receive a C or C-, and that 5-15% receive a D+, D or F"

JOThompson
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby JOThompson » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:16 pm

Seton Hall usually places strict stipulations on their scholarship offers. I've heard it's a competitive school, so you should factor in the possibility paying full freight. Even if it's slightly more expensive, I'd go to Rutgers-Newark. What's the process for getting in-state in NJ?

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:48 pm

JOThompson wrote:Seton Hall usually places strict stipulations on their scholarship offers. I've heard it's a competitive school, so you should factor in the possibility paying full freight. Even if it's slightly more expensive, I'd go to Rutgers-Newark. What's the process for getting in-state in NJ?


Move to NJ for school is pretty much it (although I think OP is already in-state). The RU schools are some of the easiest in the country to get in-state tuition at.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby IzziesGal » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:55 pm

kapital98 wrote:
Seton Hall is located right next to NJ's gov't.



The capital is in Trenton - which is about 45 minutes to an hour away from both schools. And both schools are right near each other. Depending on where you come from, you literally pass one on the way to the other.

paul7lee
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby paul7lee » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:14 am

That $35K scholly is kept if you make top 50% in your class. If you don't think you can do at least that much don't go to school. I got the same scholly. I'm most likely going to attend.

legallyb
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby legallyb » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:24 am

I agree. If you get that scholarship of $35,000 they obviously think you can be in the top 50% or they wouldn't be offering you that much. I got it and am confident that with working to my potential I will be in the top half. Think of it logically. Lots of people are paying sticker at most law schools, including SHU, so they obviously want you more if they offer you a scholarship and assume you'll be in the top 50%. If you don't, it's probably because you aren't living up to your potential. You got the scholarship offer for a reason...

paul7lee wrote:That $35K scholly is kept if you make top 50% in your class. If you don't think you can do at least that much don't go to school. I got the same scholly. I'm most likely going to attend.

JOThompson
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby JOThompson » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:03 pm

keg411 wrote:
JOThompson wrote:Seton Hall usually places strict stipulations on their scholarship offers. I've heard it's a competitive school, so you should factor in the possibility paying full freight. Even if it's slightly more expensive, I'd go to Rutgers-Newark. What's the process for getting in-state in NJ?


Move to NJ for school is pretty much it (although I think OP is already in-state). The RU schools are some of the easiest in the country to get in-state tuition at.

Cool. When I was looking at Rutgers, someone told me that instate was as simple as showing a 12 month lease to the school. Just wondering if it was still so awesome :)

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gwuorbust
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:45 pm

legallyb wrote:I agree. If you get that scholarship of $35,000 they obviously think you can be in the top 50% or they wouldn't be offering you that much. I got it and am confident that with working to my potential I will be in the top half. Think of it logically. Lots of people are paying sticker at most law schools, including SHU, so they obviously want you more if they offer you a scholarship and assume you'll be in the top 50%. If you don't, it's probably because you aren't living up to your potential. You got the scholarship offer for a reason...


yeah there is a reason. to boost the school's USNWR ranking.

HeavenWood
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:47 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
legallyb wrote:I agree. If you get that scholarship of $35,000 they obviously think you can be in the top 50% or they wouldn't be offering you that much. I got it and am confident that with working to my potential I will be in the top half. Think of it logically. Lots of people are paying sticker at most law schools, including SHU, so they obviously want you more if they offer you a scholarship and assume you'll be in the top 50%. If you don't, it's probably because you aren't living up to your potential. You got the scholarship offer for a reason...


yeah there is a reason. to boost the school's USNWR ranking.


Bbbbbuttttt cantyoubothberight?

legallyb
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Re: Seton Hall vs. Rutgers Newark

Postby legallyb » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:54 pm

His response just strengthens mine. If schools want you to boost their rank, it's because you have better credentials. They don't ask unqualified people to attend to boost their rank. That doesn't even make sense. Of course they want to improve their rank, but they do so by offering scholarships to those with higher numbers obviously. And, it would make sense that those with higher numbers should easily fall in the top 50%.

HeavenWood wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
legallyb wrote:I agree. If you get that scholarship of $35,000 they obviously think you can be in the top 50% or they wouldn't be offering you that much. I got it and am confident that with working to my potential I will be in the top half. Think of it logically. Lots of people are paying sticker at most law schools, including SHU, so they obviously want you more if they offer you a scholarship and assume you'll be in the top 50%. If you don't, it's probably because you aren't living up to your potential. You got the scholarship offer for a reason...


yeah there is a reason. to boost the school's USNWR ranking.


Bbbbbuttttt cantyoubothberight?




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