Help! With my choice

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you choose?

NYU (COA $212,598)
11
30%
Georgetown (COA $183,300)
2
5%
Cornell (COA $157,140)
10
27%
Vanderbilt (COA $121,992)
8
22%
Minnesota (COA $61,500)
6
16%
 
Total votes: 37

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rpiandrew
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Help! With my choice

Postby rpiandrew » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:59 pm

I'm really not sure what to do.

I have about $90,000 in loans from undergrad.

I LOVED Vanderbilt -- I really felt at home there and could see myself going but I'm tempted to pay a little more to be in the Top 14.

I want to do Public Interest/government when I graduate.

Thoughts?

ku1185
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby ku1185 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:08 pm

PI/Gov't => IBR and loan forgiveness. I wouldn't worry about debt quite as much given you want to go into PI/gov work and focus more on what schools have the best placement in what you want to do. Unless you REALLY REALLY REALLY love Vanderbilt, but you'd have to love it like... a lot.

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rpiandrew
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby rpiandrew » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:50 pm

Georgetown's LRAP seems to be pretty great for PI:
Georgetown Law students who work for U.S.-based government agencies or nonprofit 501(c)(3) organizations for 10 years after graduation in a legally related capacity (JD degree must be preferred or required), and whose LRAP qualifying income remain less than $75,000*, can borrow the entire cost of attending law school in the form of federally-guaranteed loans and have all of their loan repayments reimbursed by Georgetown Law and the remaining principal balance forgiven by the federal government. Georgetown Law benefits would continue on a diminishing basis for incomes exceeding $75,000*


I think that would hold true for NYU too but theirs is very confusing... can anyone offer some insight into LRAP stuff given the amounts above?

ku1185
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby ku1185 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:08 pm

I'm not too sure about LRAP stuff, but as far as I understand it, it differs by school. Typically (at least from what I've seen), schools will "loan" you a certain amount of money to pay your loans. Once certain conditions are met, that LRAP loan will be forgiven (free money).

TBH, I think you would be fine even without LRAP. Aside from the fact that some school's LRAP's are harder to qualify for, IBR would cap your annual loan payments to 10-15% (I think it's 10% for PI/gov workers, I could be wrong) which isn't too bad. Definitely look into LRAP as it can be free money, but I would not base a decision on that (i.e., going to a school because they might pay a couple thousand dollars of your loans is not worth losing out on the prospects of coming out of a superior school).

You just have to make sure that you have federal loan debt so it'd qualify for IBR and such.

If I were you, I would be more worried about how dedicated I was to PI/Gov't work. Given the debt you'd have coming out of NYU, your options may be limited to PI/Gov't or a Biglaw job where you'll work your ass off just to pay off your debts.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:19 am

ku1185 wrote:TBH, I think you would be fine even without LRAP. Aside from the fact that some school's LRAP's are harder to qualify for, IBR would cap your annual loan payments to 10-15% (I think it's 10% for PI/gov workers, I could be wrong) which isn't too bad. Definitely look into LRAP as it can be free money, but I would not base a decision on that (i.e., going to a school because they might pay a couple thousand dollars of your loans is not worth losing out on the prospects of coming out of a superior school).

You just have to make sure that you have federal loan debt so it'd qualify for IBR and such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm a bit unsure about this, but IBR only forgives your loans if you don't do any private sector work for those ten years, right? I mean, that's an important different between LRAPs and IBR. Some LRAPs (the only one I'm sure of is Cornell's, but I assume NYU's too) allow you to switch between private and public sector, and will pay your loans anytime you're working in the public sector, and pays them on the ten-year repayment plan. So if you end up needing to switch to do private work for whatever reason, all the loan money doesn't suddenly come back.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:30 am

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
ku1185 wrote:TBH, I think you would be fine even without LRAP. Aside from the fact that some school's LRAP's are harder to qualify for, IBR would cap your annual loan payments to 10-15% (I think it's 10% for PI/gov workers, I could be wrong) which isn't too bad. Definitely look into LRAP as it can be free money, but I would not base a decision on that (i.e., going to a school because they might pay a couple thousand dollars of your loans is not worth losing out on the prospects of coming out of a superior school).

You just have to make sure that you have federal loan debt so it'd qualify for IBR and such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm a bit unsure about this, but IBR only forgives your loans if you don't do any private sector work for those ten years, right? I mean, that's an important different between LRAPs and IBR. Some LRAPs (the only one I'm sure of is Cornell's, but I assume NYU's too) allow you to switch between private and public sector, and will pay your loans anytime you're working in the public sector, and pays them on the ten-year repayment plan. So if you end up needing to switch to do private work for whatever reason, all the loan money doesn't suddenly come back.


Haven't checked out NYU, but so far Cornell's is the only one I've seen that let's you do this. Most lraps require that you be on IBR.

It's NYU or Vandy, at NYU I'd be worried that I would end up not wanting public interest or couldn't find PI job or want to switch after a few years or get laid off on year 6 of repayment and thus lose lrap privileges. check out nyu's specifically and see if you feel comfortable with it, I hear that it is very strong. If you are quite sure that you want to go that route NYU makes the best sense.

If you aren't go if Vandy because you loved it and it is way cheaper, however, Vandy's lrap sucks, it pays only half your payment if you make like 35000 or less. check it out, but it is weak so you shouldn't rely on it too much. But if want anything else besides PI Vandy is the way to go, because of your UG debt, I'd say.

I voted Vandy but NYU for Lrap probably makes more sense although it is really scary. But you have to be sure you want that, be committed to taking advantage of every kind of PI boost you can (connections, events, volunteering, internships, networking) which at NYU are plentiful I'd guess, and check out the fine print of NYU's lrap and see if you at comfortable with it.

I could see Gtown if the fine print is better, but, barring world's best lrap from gtown (i havent looked at it) i think NYU would win. Cornell offers a very different kind of lrap that you may prefer but if you strictly want pi then it is probably worse. But it does offer some middle ground if you arent sure. It doesnt offer even close to the pi exposure and options as nyu though.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:43 am

ku1185 wrote:I'm not too sure about LRAP stuff, but as far as I understand it, it differs by school. Typically (at least from what I've seen), schools will "loan" you a certain amount of money to pay your loans. Once certain conditions are met, that LRAP loan will be forgiven (free money).

TBH, I think you would be fine even without LRAP. Aside from the fact that some school's LRAP's are harder to qualify for, IBR would cap your annual loan payments to 10-15% (I think it's 10% for PI/gov workers, I could be wrong) which isn't too bad. Definitely look into LRAP as it can be free money, but I would not base a decision on that (i.e., going to a school because they might pay a couple thousand dollars of your loans is not worth losing out on the prospects of coming out of a superior school).

You just have to make sure that you have federal loan debt so it'd qualify for IBR and such.

If I were you, I would be more worried about how dedicated I was to PI/Gov't work. Given the debt you'd have coming out of NYU, your options may be limited to PI/Gov't or a Biglaw job where you'll work your ass off just to pay off your debts.


Don't go to NYU for Biglaw, you have too much debt id say. You would be ok, but you be better off out of vandy or Cornell for biglaw.

Just looked at NYU LRAP explanation on tls http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guide-to-lrap-new-york-university.html it looks ok, high cap thats nice, but if you drop out of the program it looks like you get slammed. That said it still seems better than most other top schools. You need to still check with nyu and talk to someone or at least go on their website and find out the fine print details before you think about his more. that tls article could be outdated. that sometimes happens. Dont even think about it though, unless you could commit for 10 years. Unless Im understanding it wrong it probably wouldnt pay off all your debt by then either, so it may not be the best option. not sure.

Heres some more info on nyu lrap http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=152568

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rpiandrew
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby rpiandrew » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:43 am

I ran the numbers and when you combine IBR and LRAP, I think you end up not paying at all for NYU up to the $81k/year limit because LRAP pays out more than IBR needs. Not sure if that's really how it works at NYU.

BUT it definitely works that way at Georgetown, per my previous post. I would pay $0 if I go to work in government and make $75k/yr or less. I'm about 90% sure I want to work in government or at least PI so I don't think I need to worry about the debt at all -- it will just kind of disappear.

Emma1
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Help! With my choice

Postby Emma1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:59 pm

rpiandrew wrote:I ran the numbers and when you combine IBR and LRAP, I think you end up not paying at all for NYU up to the $81k/year limit because LRAP pays out more than IBR needs. Not sure if that's really how it works at NYU.

BUT it definitely works that way at Georgetown, per my previous post. I would pay $0 if I go to work in government and make $75k/yr or less. I'm about 90% sure I want to work in government or at least PI so I don't think I need to worry about the debt at all -- it will just kind of disappear.


That is only if you get and keep a job in the public sector for 10 years. If you lose your job or go into private practice it is another matter. Other people have reported on TLS that you get slammed and wind up owing more than you originally did. I think this is because GULC only pays down the interest and maybe not all of that. Also you have to worry about if the program is abolished at the federal level ( which is the entity that pays your loans) in the future.

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pixytree
Posts: 175
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Re: Help! With my choice

Postby pixytree » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:28 pm

rpiandrew wrote:I ran the numbers and when you combine IBR and LRAP, I think you end up not paying at all for NYU up to the $81k/year limit because LRAP pays out more than IBR needs. Not sure if that's really how it works at NYU.

BUT it definitely works that way at Georgetown, per my previous post. I would pay $0 if I go to work in government and make $75k/yr or less. I'm about 90% sure I want to work in government or at least PI so I don't think I need to worry about the debt at all -- it will just kind of disappear.


NYU's program has been revamped and you can work in the private sector under their LRAP, just not under IBR. It has to be a law related job though.




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