Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where would you go?

UVa at sticker hoping for 180k CoA
12
36%
Cornell with 45k hoping for 160k CoA
21
64%
 
Total votes: 33

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Law Sauce
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Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:10 am

So I am starting to feel like I am going to go to Cornell, but a big part of me is telling me that this is objectively just wrong. So I am wondering if there really is a significant difference between the two schools? And, more importantly, would I be foolish to take Cornell over UVa?

thoughts:

    got nothing from UVa and got 45k from Cornell, but with higher tuition, higher Cost of living, and possibility of getting in-state at Virginia, the difference in cost would likely only be 10-30k over the three years.
    Really liked Virginia, and also really liked Cornell (felt very much at home there, I am from the northeast)
    Weather in Virginia would be sweet, though Ithaca's would not kill me
    Worried about larger class size and higher medians of UVA giving me a better chance of getting hosed
    Would love to clerk after, also interested in going to a firm in Denver, Philadelphia, DC, Grand Rapids MI, or almost anywhere else besides NYC or Chicago. (I could go to NYC, but it would not be my first choice by far). I am also interested in government work, but I dont really know that much about it.
    Liked Cornell's lrap better because it offers flexibility to go back and forth between lrap and private practice (not sure how many people actually do that), and b/c it has no top out
    Virginia's lrap scares me as a back up plan because it is on IBR, there is a top-out limit, and because I'm not sure it is a good fall back if you end up unemployed (but it would be better if you do put in your 10 years of PI IBR)
    UVa seems chiller

tl;dr Cornell's small class size and lrap make me feel a little safer going there than UVa, but it this a foolish choice since UVa is a better school at similar costs? even if I liked Cornell a lot (liked UVa too)?

Edit. Added a Poll, where would you go?
Last edited by Law Sauce on Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby tea_drinker » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:26 am

I personally don't think you're crazy to pick Cornell in this case, since you have some financial incentives (i.e. scholarship, LRAP) attending Cornell. In addition, you sound like you really like Cornell (i.e. class size and environment), so that's it.

Question for thoughts: do you have any tie with Denver, GR, or Philly?

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:42 am

tea_drinker wrote:I personally don't think you're crazy to pick Cornell in this case, since you have some financial incentives (i.e. scholarship, LRAP) attending Cornell. In addition, you sound like you really like Cornell (i.e. class size and environment), so that's it.

Question for thoughts: do you have any tie with Denver, GR, or Philly?


Yes to all, some stronger than others, Denver and Philly sort of strong and GR, I'd say, very strong

duckmoney
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby duckmoney » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:11 am

UVA is the better school; you have a better chance getting jobs in all of those places from UVA than Cornell. But this difference is not that great, and if you would be genuinely happier and perform better at Cornell, then Cornell could be the better choice.

I will say that I've heard of very few people who like Cornell better than UVA all else equal. Rumor has it that Cornell is more competitive, less fun, and generally more unpleasant than UVA. Seasonal Affective Disorder is a big deal, hence the suicides.

But if you genuinely liked it there and feel like you wouldn't mind it, then it could be the right choice.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:18 am

duckmoney wrote:UVA is the better school; you have a better chance getting jobs in all of those places from UVA than Cornell.


As in like, they would go deeper into the class for UVA than Cornell? more access at OGI? more likely to call you back?

c_dubya_s
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby c_dubya_s » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:20 am

Just FYI-I've heard it's very hard to get in-state at UVA. Possible, but I definitely wouldn't count on it (unlike in California). Also, do you know if Cornell places well in the markets that you're considering?

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:22 am

c_dubya_s wrote:Just FYI-I've heard it's very hard to get in-state at UVA. Possible, but I definitely wouldn't count on it (unlike in California). Also, do you know if Cornell places well in the markets that you're considering?


No, I am unsure, # of firms at Cornell OCI is less than UVA but not considerably, there are no GR firms at either, 6 Denver at UVA 2 at Cornell, Philly almost tied. I have no idea if there is a real difference or not for any of those places?

True about Virginia In-state being hard, Im not sure if I'd have a shot or not. I will be married so maybe my SO could help with that.

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koalatriste
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby koalatriste » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:23 am

i chose cornell over UVA last year. while i'm 99% sure that i'll be transferring (applying to HYSCCNPB), i'm sure that I made the right choice between the two. if for nothing else than the way UVA allocates their screening interviews at OCI.

if i had to do it all over again, i would retake/reapply. neither ithaca nor c-ville really does it for this queen. actually, i probably wouldn't have gone to law school because, well, it sucks. listen to Ellie Mystal...

barry
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby barry » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:26 am

the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:27 am

koalatriste wrote:i chose cornell over UVA last year. while i'm 99% sure that i'll be transferring (applying to HYSCCNPB), i'm sure that I made the right choice between the two. if for nothing else than the way UVA allocates their screening interviews at OCI.

if i had to do it all over again, i would retake/reapply. neither ithaca nor c-ville really does it for this queen. actually, i probably wouldn't have gone to law school because, well, it sucks. listen to Ellie Mystal...


Well congrats on doing well at Cornell and being able to transfer.

I'm thinking I may have to rely on non-OCI ways of getting jobs in these markets anyway, but it does seem that Cornell's bid system is far superior. Does this make a big difference though? Do ppl get offers from firms that they would not even have gotten looks at with a different system?
Last edited by Law Sauce on Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:29 am

barry wrote:the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)


Good points. thanks.

by higher medians I meant student quality that I'd be competing against, LSAT, gpa medians

barry
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby barry » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:36 am

Law Sauce wrote:
barry wrote:the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)


Good points. thanks.

by higher medians I meant student quality that I'd be competing against, LSAT, gpa medians


Oh, well i still wouldn't consider that b/c 2 questions on LSAT is pretty negligible, these schools are both going to have very smart student bodies, although Cornell is known to be one of the most competitive T14 as an above poster said

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violinst
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby violinst » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:38 am

Chose Cornell (75K) over Michigan (45K). Very happy.

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RVP11
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:43 am

Law Sauce wrote:
barry wrote:the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)


Good points. thanks.

by higher medians I meant student quality that I'd be competing against, LSAT, gpa medians


UVA's higher quality student body is probably counteracted by higher average BAC.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:45 am

Cornell and UVA are peers regardless of what other people on this site will tell you.

Most secondary markets want ties, although I'm certain that Cornell draws a lot of out of state employers to OCI.

Also, UVA uses the preselect system that is so tier 1, non-t14esque. I honestly wouldn't go there for that reason alone.

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:58 am

RVP11 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:
barry wrote:the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)


Good points. thanks.

by higher medians I meant student quality that I'd be competing against, LSAT, gpa medians


UVA's higher quality student body is probably counteracted by higher average BAC.


??

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:02 am

barry wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:
barry wrote:the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)


Good points. thanks.

by higher medians I meant student quality that I'd be competing against, LSAT, gpa medians


Oh, well i still wouldn't consider that b/c 2 questions on LSAT is pretty negligible, these schools are both going to have very smart student bodies, although Cornell is known to be one of the most competitive T14 as an above poster said


yeah, i'll echo this. i've heard cornell students study like maaaaaad

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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:03 am

Law Sauce wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:
barry wrote:the difference between C and V are prolly not that great if you really love Cornell but if you don't want NY i would seriously consider taking UVA b/c it is alot less NY centric and may better serve your goals ( i think V has better clerkship #'s and places more in Gov b/c it has better contacts w/ DC). Also, while the bigger class may be a con, the higher median will not be ( it essentially doesn't matter what the curve is and may even help in competition w/ people from schools with a lower curve)


Good points. thanks.

by higher medians I meant student quality that I'd be competing against, LSAT, gpa medians


UVA's higher quality student body is probably counteracted by higher average BAC.


??


haha, he's saying that they drink a lot, which would counterbalance their natural inclination to perform well in classes

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:07 am

LS, i really don't think median differences of 168 vs 170 should act as much different in your eyes. also, keep in mind that UVa takes a lot of ED splitters, so many of the 170+ LSATS have lower GPAs which means they're not as accustomed to studying hard in a higher education setting. i mean, that's debatable, but it's something to think about. also, their 25th percentile LSATs are the same, so it's not like cornell is taking lower LSAT students any more than UVa is. make sense?

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:22 am

violinst wrote:Chose Cornell (75K) over Michigan (45K). Very happy.


What were your goals?

Is there a strong emphasis on clerking there (or is it private practice in NYC centric)? Also, and most importantly, do people have success mass-mailing firms in secondary markets?

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Law Sauce
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:22 am

paulinaporizkova wrote:LS, i really don't think median differences of 168 vs 170 should act as much different in your eyes. also, keep in mind that UVa takes a lot of ED splitters, so many of the 170+ LSATS have lower GPAs which means they're not as accustomed to studying hard in a higher education setting. i mean, that's debatable, but it's something to think about. also, their 25th percentile LSATs are the same, so it's not like cornell is taking lower LSAT students any more than UVa is. make sense?


good point, medians probably matter very little

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sundance95
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby sundance95 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:26 am

FYI re in-state at UVA, I believe one of the few ways to get in-state tuition one year in is if your spouse begins working in VA and paying VA state taxes.

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Attorney
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Attorney » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:43 am

Cornell is cheaper for you and has a better LRAP. No, it would not be silly.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:51 am

sundance95 wrote:FYI re in-state at UVA, I believe one of the few ways to get in-state tuition one year in is if your spouse begins working in VA and paying VA state taxes.


But in state at UVA is what, only $4,000 cheaper? While money is money, this should nto be a significant factor as the benefit is marginal at best.

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Re: Would I be silly to take Cornell over UVa?

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:13 pm

I am somewhat surprised that OP's desire for geographical mobility (with NYC being acceptable, but far from ideal) and desire to clerk haven't made UVA a fairly easy choice in this situation, even with slightly cheaper COA at Cornell. Unless I liked Cornell/Ithaca a noticeable amount more than UVA/Charlottesville, I personally would be at UVA this fall in your situation.




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