Doubt

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Avon Barksdale
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:23 am

Doubt

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:31 am

Hey All,

I have recently been accepted at Fordham Law, and will have to pay sticker there. I have a modest scholarship from Brooklyn, a large scholarship from seton hall, with a full ride from st. johns. I am leaning towards Fordham at sticker, but find myself suffering from suffocating doubt. Doubt regarding my law school decision, doubt towards the viability of a law degree from one of these schools in NYC, and, finally, doubt that I can finish top of my class at a school like Fordham to justify such an enormous investment. Are my doubts unfounded, are they ominous and indicative of what is ahead, am i a scaredy cat haha? Any and all opinions are welcome.

My numbers are 3.15/166.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:49 am

I'm in a similar situation and can relate to your sense of doubt. The way I look at it is to just absolutely work your ass off at whatever school your at to be top of the class.

User avatar
Gatriel
Posts: 2015
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:30 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby Gatriel » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:02 am

rocon7383 wrote:I'm in a similar situation and can relate to your sense of doubt. The way I look at it is to just absolutely work your ass off at whatever school your at to be top of the class.


This is credited.

Me personally between the two .... Fordham @ sticker. Although its' rankings have slipped over the past few years it still cars a very reputable reputation (redundancy . . . yayyyy) in the legal market up north. If you go to Seton Hall (they did just get a pretty new building) you get lumped with with the Rutgers, Syracuses, St. Johns of the North East. Let me add on these are all great schools, but if searching for a summer job taught me anything -- name matters. Is it likely you'll receive roughly the same education if you went to Fordham v St. Johns, yes. That is irrelevant. What do hiring partners think about the quality of the education, and what do lay people think about the quality of the education?

Many people complain a lot about going into debt for law school, and although it does suck you are investing in the best possible asset you can . . . yourself.

User avatar
Alex-Trof
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:42 am

Re: Doubt

Postby Alex-Trof » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:12 am

I doubt you used the right board.

User avatar
98234872348
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby 98234872348 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:18 am

?
Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby Grizz » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:18 am

Community college with Stringer seems like a pretty good bet.

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Doubt

Postby James Bond » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:12 am

Fordham, for the love of god

(or you know...don't go to law school...)

User avatar
worldtraveler
Posts: 7663
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:47 am

Re: Doubt

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:36 am

rocon7383 wrote:I'm in a similar situation and can relate to your sense of doubt. The way I look at it is to just absolutely work your ass off at whatever school your at to be top of the class.


facepalm

User avatar
chup
Posts: 23645
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:48 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby chup » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:40 am

Moving this to the correct forum.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:51 am

mistergoft wrote:prepare yoy anus.


douchey.

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Doubt

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:56 am

rad law wrote:Community college with Stringer seems like a pretty good bet.

You know avon doesn't play that way. He's just a gangsta.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:02 am

rad law wrote:Community college with Stringer seems like a pretty good bet.


i ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose...

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Doubt

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:03 am

rocon7383 wrote:
rad law wrote:Community college with Stringer seems like a pretty good bet.


i ain't no suit-wearin' businessman like you... you know I'm just a gangsta I suppose...

there's the quote I was looking for.

User avatar
BarbellDreams
Posts: 2256
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:05 am

worldtraveler wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:I'm in a similar situation and can relate to your sense of doubt. The way I look at it is to just absolutely work your ass off at whatever school your at to be top of the class.


facepalm


My exact reaction.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:11 am

BarbellDreams wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:I'm in a similar situation and can relate to your sense of doubt. The way I look at it is to just absolutely work your ass off at whatever school your at to be top of the class.


facepalm


My exact reaction.


is there something wrong with my comment?

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Doubt

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:14 am

rocon7383 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:I'm in a similar situation and can relate to your sense of doubt. The way I look at it is to just absolutely work your ass off at whatever school your at to be top of the class.


facepalm


My exact reaction.


is there something wrong with my comment?

Working your way to the top of the class isn't really something you can do in LS like you can in undergrad. Most people work very hard and all the grades are based on one exam at the the end of the semester.

OP may be in the top of his class, but it won't be because he outworked people. It could be a combination of his intelligence plus hard work but more than likely OP will not be in a position to get biglaw, which is just the fact of LS.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Doubt

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:20 am

rocon7383 wrote:is there something wrong with my comment?

Law schools (at least the top-tier ones) pre-screen for hard-working, intelligent students. You can't plan on just "working your way to the top of the class" because everyone will have that plan, especially ITE where there's an impending sense of doom for those who don't get ahead somehow.

Math question: If you define the "top of the class" as X, and 100% of the class intends to "work their way to the top", what percent of the class will fail to do so?

This is a simple math question. It can be solved this easily. There are no tricks.

User avatar
rocon7383
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby rocon7383 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:25 am

I understand there is one test and there isn't really a gradual way to up your grade. I was simply trying to tell the op to work hard. I think, when the people who commented on my statement look at it again, they'll see it was pretty benign. I don't think there is too much wrong with telling someone to work their ass off to try to get towards the top of their class. In fact, every attorney and law student I have spoken to has given me this exact advice. I know there is a curve and I know there are very few exams. But I reject the notion that the top 30% students study the same as the bottom 30% and the reason for the disparity in their grade is merely curve based. That's all I was saying- work hard. Sue me. Actually you all probably will, nevermind.

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Doubt

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:35 am

rocon7383 wrote:But I reject the notion that the top 30% students study the same as the bottom 30% and the reason for the disparity in their grade is merely curve based.

They don't study the same, but the differences in how they study is not how hard they study. That's why people objected to your statement, because it seemed to imply that working hard enough would equal good grades.

User avatar
98234872348
Posts: 1547
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby 98234872348 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:27 pm

.
Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
masochist
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby masochist » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:54 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:Hey All,

I have recently been accepted at Fordham Law, and will have to pay sticker there. I have a modest scholarship from Brooklyn, a large scholarship from seton hall, with a full ride from st. johns. I am leaning towards Fordham at sticker, but find myself suffering from suffocating doubt. Doubt regarding my law school decision, doubt towards the viability of a law degree from one of these schools in NYC, and, finally, doubt that I can finish top of my class at a school like Fordham to justify such an enormous investment. Are my doubts unfounded, are they ominous and indicative of what is ahead, am i a scaredy cat haha? Any and all opinions are welcome.

My numbers are 3.15/166.


1. I love your screen name, and I think it inspired me to rewatch season one.

2. I’d be worried if you were not struggling with doubt. You are contemplating a huge investment that has an uncertain return. The fact that you are anxious about assuming 200k in undischargeable debt makes you smart, and you should pay attention to your doubts. However, it is important to remember that anxiety alone is not a good indication that something is a bad idea. After all, can you imagine a set of circumstances under which you would not be anxious about committing to law school? What if the acceptance at full price were at NYU instead of Fordham? Do you think the 200k would actually feel less anxiety-provoking then? WIth the exception of a full ride to Yale, there are no law school decisions that will feel completely comfortable.

Avon Barksdale
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:23 am

Re: Doubt

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:03 pm

masochist wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:Hey All,

I have recently been accepted at Fordham Law, and will have to pay sticker there. I have a modest scholarship from Brooklyn, a large scholarship from seton hall, with a full ride from st. johns. I am leaning towards Fordham at sticker, but find myself suffering from suffocating doubt. Doubt regarding my law school decision, doubt towards the viability of a law degree from one of these schools in NYC, and, finally, doubt that I can finish top of my class at a school like Fordham to justify such an enormous investment. Are my doubts unfounded, are they ominous and indicative of what is ahead, am i a scaredy cat haha? Any and all opinions are welcome.

My numbers are 3.15/166.


1. I love your screen name, and I think it inspired me to rewatch season one.

2. I’d be worried if you were not struggling with doubt. You are contemplating a huge investment that has an uncertain return. The fact that you are anxious about assuming 200k in undischargeable debt makes you smart, and you should pay attention to your doubts. However, it is important to remember that anxiety alone is not a good indication that something is a bad idea. After all, can you imagine a set of circumstances under which you would not be anxious about committing to law school? What if the acceptance at full price were at NYU instead of Fordham? Do you think the 200k would actually feel less anxiety-provoking then? WIth the exception of a full ride to Yale, there are no law school decisions that will feel completely comfortable.


I appreciate your response. I think, after a lot of consideration, I am going to attend Fordham. The debt is incredibly imposing, but I truly do think the reputation, connections and potential Fordham provides over the other schools listed is worth the investment.

How do I plan to pay off the debt? ... 'One day at a time I suppose'

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Doubt

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:15 am

vanwinkle wrote:
rocon7383 wrote:But I reject the notion that the top 30% students study the same as the bottom 30% and the reason for the disparity in their grade is merely curve based.

They don't study the same, but the differences in how they study is not how hard they study. That's why people objected to your statement, because it seemed to imply that working hard enough would equal good grades.


Sorry, this isn't quite right either, because it implies that there's some secret *method* of studying (lol colored highlighters) that will in fact catapult you to the top of your class. Fact is that making top of your class is usually the result of some impossible to pinpoint mix of ability, hard work, smart study and luck, and the mix is going to vary among top students.

The point is that you are being graded on a strict curve, which was probably not true in undergrad, and it's the OTHER STUDENTS that are really the x factor in a way. There is by nature no formula for success because if there were, everyone would follow that formula, negating its effect. If you're in an 80-person lecture course, you have to write a better exam than 70 of them, and you have no way of knowing what it takes to do that. And yes, it is true that most of them will work hard. Fine, maybe not everyone in your class is going to work to their max. But half to 2/3 probably will. And then there are going to be a few kids who REALLY piss you off, because they don't even work as hard as they can and they're so damned smart that they pwn the exams anyway.

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Doubt

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:19 am

As for the decision, I guess I'd say either Fordham or whichever is cheapest. But it depends a little on your goals. Fordham is the only one on that list that will give you even a meaningful shot at a high-paying large law firm job, e.g., although, to be clear, it's more likely than not that you won't get one of those jobs even at Fordham.

None are ideal options. Can you do Fordham p/t and work to minimize your debt?

User avatar
Leira7905
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: Doubt

Postby Leira7905 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:37 am

Here's the thing, as I see it... Risking 3+ years of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars on anything is bound to create some doubt in anybody. Anyone who says they have zero-doubt (aside from those under 25 with a full scholly to a T14) is either a liar or a lunatic.

In truth, no one can really answer this question but you. If you're dead set on LS, then the general consensus is you should attend the best school you get into that will give you job placement in the market you want, and, secondly, to minimize debt. Other than that, it think it's your own dice roll.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests