NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Pick one. (Actual estimated cost, including living expenses)

Michigan (137,000)
68
68%
NYU (210,000)
32
32%
 
Total votes: 100

User avatar
cucullu
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03 am

NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby cucullu » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:53 pm

Dream career path: federal clerkship --> PI --> clinical teaching.

No geographical preference for law school or after.

Discuss?

User avatar
St.Remy
Posts: 526
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:12 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby St.Remy » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:59 pm

According to the data that I've seen on the subject Michigan and NYU graduates have similar rates of getting federal clerkships, with Michigan sometimes coming out on top. I'm no expert on PI however, and that seems like an area where NYU could have a substantial edge. All other things being equal I guess I would take Michigan for the lower debt.

Edit: what am I saying? For some reason reading your post and writing my own I thought that you meant IP, not PI. NYU is substantially better for PI, but I don't know about 70K better. If you are coming off a federal clerkship I imagine you would have little problem regardless of if you went NYU or Michigan, but obviously assuming a federal clerkship is a really bad idea. I'd still probably say Michigan, but it's close.

Also, have you tried to get NYU to match Michigan's aid offer? They did for me.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:17 pm

i recently sat down with a friend who just graduated from NYU and discussed schools and various pros/cons of NYU. I know the minor differences in clerkship numbers (as a % of students) between schools in this band, but she was kind of surprised that NYU was behind its peers in clerkship placement. She said the school had great resources and made quite an effort recently to place people.

I would be wary of making mountains out mole hills WRT to clerkship placement. The money is more of a personal thing, are you willing to risk money on a better PI network and the opportunity to live in NYC for 3 years?

showNprove
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:52 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby showNprove » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:16 pm

Michigan should run away with this poll.

User avatar
Stanford4Me
Posts: 6047
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:23 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:22 pm

I'm an NYU 1L. NYU is an amazing school, but if I were considering NYU sticker vs. Michigan $$ I'd go to Michigan, hands down, PI notwithstanding.

dukey
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:56 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby dukey » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:27 pm

tough decision. i will abstain :)

comes down to your personal preference for study living environment & debt tolerance. Since PI, you should also evaluate the schools' LRAP programs

User avatar
cucullu
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby cucullu » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:13 am

showNprove wrote:Michigan should run away with this poll.


Fascinating. I didn't actually see this coming. As the discussion continues: is the rank of these two too close to matter much re: prestige for academia (further down the line)?

User avatar
FlightoftheEarls
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:18 am

cucullu wrote:As the discussion continues: is the rank of these two too close to matter much re: prestige for academia (further down the line)?

Academic entry level hires over the past eight and three years (note: this includes not only graduates of the past eight/three years, but all entry level academic hires that have taken place within the past eight/three years based on graduates of these schools): http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150721&p=4188514&hilit=academia#p4188514. You'll want to look at the blue numbers here - they're pretty comparable, with NYU having a tiny edge in the past eight years and Michigan having a tiny edge in the past two-three years.


bdubs wrote:i recently sat down with a friend who just graduated from NYU and discussed schools and various pros/cons of NYU. I know the minor differences in clerkship numbers (as a % of students) between schools in this band, but she was kind of surprised that NYU was behind its peers in clerkship placement. She said the school had great resources and made quite an effort recently to place people.

I would be wary of making mountains out mole hills WRT to clerkship placement. The money is more of a personal thing, are you willing to risk money on a better PI network and the opportunity to live in NYC for 3 years?

This isn't a slight to NYU, but all top schools have "great resources" and "make quite an effort" to place people in clerkships, so NYU is hardly alone in this respect. I completely agree that TLS often makes huge distinctions between minor fluctuations in placement data (zOMG 54% NLJ vs. 52.8%?!), but I do think NYU's clerkship placement below many of it's peers is consistent and differentiated enough that it isn't completely insignificant. Of course, I think it's a shock to many people (not directing this at you, merely that there is a repetitive trend on TLS in general) when the placement statistics don't align with TLS' CCN MVPB DCNG tiers, but the fact that NYU is a "T6" and is revered as such doesn't make consistent data less meaningful. In any event, here is the compiled official USNews data on the (pre-ITE) Article III placement: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=149333&p=4122116&hilit=clerkship#p4122116.

All of that aside, I think you hit the nail on the head with the point that the money consideration is what this should come down to. Any particular likes/dislikes between the schools, OP?

logistikon
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby logistikon » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:25 am

i think the more relevant question given that you want to go into PI is whether or not there is a difference in LRAP between the two schools.

User avatar
cucullu
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby cucullu » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:42 am

FlightoftheEarls wrote:.

All of that aside, I think you hit the nail on the head with the point that the money consideration is what this should come down to. Any particular likes/dislikes between the schools, OP?


FlightoftheEarls,

First off, thank you for the generously helpful and substantive post. (And to everyone else who has contributed as well--thanks! I suppose I'm a little surprised to see everyone being so thoughtful and constructive, after seeing so many of these threads devolve into harsh nit-picking of the OP. :))

Re: likes/dislikes - It's a bit tough because I haven't had the chance to visit Michigan, but I'm trying to swing it before the end of April. But here is a rough break down:

Substantive things
PI support: NYU's PILC seems pretty stellar - they run a giant OCI-style PI career fair at the end of 2L summer, which is appealing to me not just for the ease but also for what it says about how NYU has tried to institutionalize and formalize its support for PI. Michigan = ?

LRAP: NYU's, from what I can tell, has historically been more generous, but I think it's gone the way of Chicago (glorified IBR). I think it still has a higher cap than Michigan. If someone would like to educate me about either school's LRAP, by all means.

Clinics: This is very important to me. I think clinical education is fantastic, and I'd like to do two while I'm in school. I think Michigan's have a solid reputation as well, but NYU's are famed. I was solidly impressed by what I learned about the program and by the answers I received to my questions this past weekend at NYU's ASW.

Clerkships/academia: I think you are all correct that this one is pretty much a wash. Are there any current Michigan 1/2/3Ls with a similar interest browsing who can speak to availability of profs there/ availability of mentoring? One draw at NYU was my perception that profs do what they can to make themselves available and to encourage students with academic dreams. (Also, any current NYU 1/2/3Ls feel free to disabuse me of this notion if I'm wrong.)

Fluffy things
Weather: It's a wash. I grew up in the northern midwest. I can deal with Ann Arbor. I suppose NYU is a tiny bit better, but I doubt enough to matter.

City: It's a wash. I have lots of friends in NY, I'm an ace at public transit, and I own a couple pairs of skinny jeans so I think I can swing it in the East Village. Friends, museums, food, etc. great. Living in a room the size of my current foyer not great. Ann Arbor has some appeal in that I could live in a decent apartment, ride my bike in the 1 not snowy month of the year, and take my car to get groceries. Also it does not cost 1 bajillion dollars.

School culture: I really can't comment on Michigan, but I can say that I really loved it at NYU. All of the current and admitted students I met were smart, interesting (they'd done neat things since graduation), and laid back at the same time. A lot of PI people, which is... nerdy and encouraging. Current students all seemed like they knew each other (casual observations of hallway interactions) and were friendly. I guess I'm a little wary that Michigan will be, in addition to "collegial," a bit collegiate. I wouldn't want to live in the Lawyer's Club, and it's a little unnerving to me that half the 1L class thinks LC is a good idea. (A dorm with no kitchen and a common bathroom? Seriously? The last time I did that was freshman year of college... 8 years ago.) Also, is it going to be packed full of midwestern kids who never want to live MI, WI, IL, IN, OH, etc? I don't mind going to school there, but I think it was not entirely accurate to say I have no geographical preference for after. I might end up in the midwest, but most likely I'd rather go to the East coast or the Southeast. I'm sure I could do that from Michigan, but it would be a bit depressing to think most of my classmates are of a different mind. (My high school experience all over again.)

Sorry for the novel. TL; DR is a totally fair response for anyone.
Last edited by cucullu on Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cucullu
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby cucullu » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:53 am

Two other notes re: academia:

1. Perhaps TCR is retake, go to Yale. (jk. but srsly.)

2. I should highlight from OP that I'm interested in clinical teaching specifically. Paging through the faculty handbooks of the schools I've gotten into, it looks like those people really do come from all over (currently) but the clinical profs I've spoken with have all told me that clinical teaching is becoming increasingly more like traditional academia (you have to go to a pedigreed school and publish).

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby thecilent » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:54 am

cucullu wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:.

All of that aside, I think you hit the nail on the head with the point that the money consideration is what this should come down to. Any particular likes/dislikes between the schools, OP?


FlightoftheEarls,

First off, thank you for the generously helpful and substantive post. (And to everyone else who has contributed as well--thanks! I suppose I'm a little surprised to see everyone being so thoughtful and constructive, after seeing so many of these threads devolve into harsh nit-picking of the OP. :))

Re: likes/dislikes - It's a bit tough because I haven't had the chance to visit Michigan, but I'm trying to swing it before the end of April. But here is a rough break down:

Substantive things
PI support: NYU's PILC seems pretty stellar - they run a giant OCI-style PI career fair at the end of 2L summer, which is appealing to me not just for the ease but also for what it says about how NYU has tried to institutionalize and formalize its support for PI. Michigan = ?

LRAP: NYU's, from what I can tell, has historically been more generous, but I think it's gone the way of Chicago (glorified IBR). I think it still has a higher cap than Michigan. If someone would like to educate me about either school's LRAP, by all means.

Clinics: This is very important to me. I think clinical education is fantastic, and I'd like to do two while I'm in school. I think Michigan's have a solid reputation as well, but NYU's are famed. I was solidly impressed by what I learned about the program and by the answers I received to my questions this past weekend at NYU's ASW.

Clerkships/academia: I think you are all correct that this one is pretty much a wash. Are there any current Michigan 1/2/3Ls with a similar interest browsing who can speak to availability of profs there/ availability of mentoring? One draw at NYU was my perception that profs do what they can to make themselves available and to encourage students with academic dreams. (Also, any current NYU 1/2/3Ls feel free to disabuse me of this notion if I'm wrong.)

Fluffy things
Weather: It's a wash. I grew up in the northern midwest. I can deal with Ann Arbor. I suppose NYU is a tiny bit better, but I doubt enough to matter.

City: It's a wash. I have lots of friends in NY, I'm an ace at public transit, and I own a couple pairs of skinny jeans so I think I can swing it in the East Village. Friends, museums, food, etc. great. Living in a room the size of my current foyer not great. Ann Arbor has some appeal in that I could live in a decent apartment, ride my bike in the 1 not snowy month of the year, and take my car to get groceries. Also it does not cost 1 bajillion dollars.

School culture: I really can't comment on Michigan, but I can say that I really loved it at NYU. All of the current and admitted students I met were smart, interesting (they'd done neat things since graduation), and laid back at the same time. A lot of PI people, which is... nerdy and encouraging. Current students all seemed like they knew each other (casual observations of hallway interactions) and were friendly. I guess I'm a little wary that Michigan will be, in addition to "collegial," a bit collegiate. I wouldn't want to live in the Lawyer's Club, and it's a little unnerving to me that half the 1L class thinks LC is a good idea. (A dorm with no kitchen and a common bathroom? Seriously? The last time I did that was freshman year of college... 8 years ago.) Also, is it going to be packed full of midwestern kids who never want to live MI, WI, IL, IN, OH, etc? I don't mind going to school there, but I think it was not entirely accurate to say I have no geographical preference for after. I might end up in the midwest, but most likely I'd rather go to the East coast or the Southeast. I'm sure I could do that from Michigan, but it would be a bit depressing to think most of my classmates are of a different mind. (My high school experience all over again.)

Sorry for the novel. TR; DR is a totally fair response for anyone.

TL;DR

Jk. To me it would all come down to where to spend three years. Then I would remember NYU is in the heart of the greatest city evaaa and would choose accordingly. YMMV

environmentallaw
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby environmentallaw » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:38 am

OP - I'm in the same situation (with similar career goals) and I'm leaning toward choosing NYU (though I did love Michigan when I visited). My reasoning for NYU is that because NYU has a greater emphasis on PI, students will have a lot more help in landing good PI jobs. Also, you mentioned LRAP - NYU's LRAP is *a lot* better in my opinion. The base for NYU's LRAP is $80,000, which means you can make up to $80,000/year and not make any payments on your loans. Further, as I'm sure you know, if you work in PI for 10 years, the gov't will pay back your loans anyway. I think scholarship money is an important factor for people who will eventually have to pay back their loans, but honestly, if you go to NYU, there's the possibility that you won't have to pay back any loans!

Hope that helps - either choice is great and good luck deciding!

User avatar
shortporch
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:13 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby shortporch » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:50 am

Strictly speaking, "clinical" professors are not the same thing as "academia," at least in the academy. Your pedigree concerns should not be the same. Clinical hiring is very different from general "academia." You can't try to compare the two, and you shouldn't conflate the two.

User avatar
cucullu
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby cucullu » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:42 pm

environmentallaw wrote:OP - I'm in the same situation (with similar career goals) and I'm leaning toward choosing NYU (though I did love Michigan when I visited). My reasoning for NYU is that because NYU has a greater emphasis on PI, students will have a lot more help in landing good PI jobs. Also, you mentioned LRAP - NYU's LRAP is *a lot* better in my opinion. The base for NYU's LRAP is $80,000, which means you can make up to $80,000/year and not make any payments on your loans. Further, as I'm sure you know, if you work in PI for 10 years, the gov't will pay back your loans anyway. I think scholarship money is an important factor for people who will eventually have to pay back their loans, but honestly, if you go to NYU, there's the possibility that you won't have to pay back any loans!

Hope that helps - either choice is great and good luck deciding!


What was your impression of the PI community and institutional support at Michigan? I haven't had a chance to visit, but I was solidly impressed at NYU.

UCLAtransfer
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby UCLAtransfer » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:53 pm

If you are really committed to PI, I think the extra $75k from Mich is huge, because I would imagine having $200k in debt hanging over your head might make it tougher to pull the trigger on the lower salary.

User avatar
cucullu
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby cucullu » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:01 pm

UCLAtransfer wrote:If you are really committed to PI, I think the extra $75k from Mich is huge, because I would imagine having $200k in debt hanging over your head might make it tougher to pull the trigger on the lower salary.


Concur. I do need to sit down this weekend and have one of my friends who understands MATHS help me actually figure out these school's LRAPs and how they'd work with different jobs I might be interested in.

Perhaps it's because I'm interested in PI not Biglaw, and perhaps it's because I pitted Mich against NYU, but I'm a little surprised that it was such a sweep for Mich. I think I've underestimated Michigan.

Would the reaction have been different if I had polled Columbia (sticker) v. Mich ($$)?

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby thecilent » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:33 am

UCLAtransfer wrote:If you are really committed to PI, I think the extra $75k from Mich is huge, because I would imagine having $200k in debt hanging over your head might make it tougher to pull the trigger on the lower salary.

Um, no. Lrap dude what are you talking about

User avatar
ArchRoark
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:53 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby ArchRoark » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:44 am

environmentallaw wrote:OP - I'm in the same situation (with similar career goals) and I'm leaning toward choosing NYU (though I did love Michigan when I visited). My reasoning for NYU is that because NYU has a greater emphasis on PI, students will have a lot more help in landing good PI jobs. Also, you mentioned LRAP - NYU's LRAP is *a lot* better in my opinion. The base for NYU's LRAP is $80,000, which means you can make up to $80,000/year and not make any payments on your loans. Further, as I'm sure you know, if you work in PI for 10 years, the gov't will pay back your loans anyway. I think scholarship money is an important factor for people who will eventually have to pay back their loans, but honestly, if you go to NYU, there's the possibility that you won't have to pay back any loans!

Hope that helps - either choice is great and good luck deciding!


The cap is 80,000 according the TLS article. You contribute a portion to your loan repayment if your salary is between 50k-80k.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guid ... rsity.html

User avatar
hotthaichick
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:59 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby hotthaichick » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:56 am

I'm pretty certain that article is outdated. I was at the NYU financial session and I think that up to a new number of 75 K or 80 K, you don't have to pay anything. Can anyone else confirm this?

User avatar
lzyovrachievr
Posts: 1695
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:24 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:09 am

hotthaichick wrote:I'm pretty certain that article is outdated. I was at the NYU financial session and I think that up to a new number of 75 K or 80 K, you don't have to pay anything. Can anyone else confirm this?

Confirm. Also, it's not really a 'glorified IBR'. If you leave IBR within the ten year period for some reason, NYU will pay off your loans for as many years as you participated. They look at your loans as if you had been on a standard 10 year repayment plan, and then reduce your loans accordingly, so you don't wind up worse off for having done PI. If you're committed to PI, you could go to NYU for 200k and wind up paying nothing. If your salary is less than 80k, and your loans are 100% covered by the school (you can work with them to make sure this is true), you pay nothing. Even after 80k, you only pay 40% of whatever portion falls above 80k towards your debt. So there is no income cap to the program. (This is unique.) So the argument that the higher debt might limit you from taking a job with a smaller income is definitely incorrect as long as you plan on doing PI.

For PI, IMO, NYU > Mich
For Clerkships, numbers show, Mich > NYU
You could argue a selection bias, I suppose, but I don't know to what extent that's true.

michigan_man
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:45 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby michigan_man » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:13 am

lzyovrachievr wrote:
hotthaichick wrote:I'm pretty certain that article is outdated. I was at the NYU financial session and I think that up to a new number of 75 K or 80 K, you don't have to pay anything. Can anyone else confirm this?

Confirm. Also, it's not really a 'glorified IBR'. If you leave IBR within the ten year period for some reason, NYU will pay off your loans for as many years as you participated. They look at your loans as if you had been on a standard 10 year repayment plan, and then reduce your loans accordingly, so you don't wind up worse off for having done PI. If you're committed to PI, you could go to NYU for 200k and wind up paying nothing. If your salary is less than 80k, and your loans are 100% covered by the school (you can work with them to make sure this is true), you pay nothing. Even after 80k, you only pay 40% of whatever portion falls above 80k towards your debt. So there is no income cap to the program. (This is unique.) So the argument that the higher debt might limit you from taking a job with a smaller income is definitely incorrect as long as you plan on doing PI.

For PI, IMO, NYU > Mich
For Clerkships, numbers show, Mich > NYU
You could argue a selection bias, I suppose, but I don't know to what extent that's true.


Sorry, but this is very wrong. Here is the quote from NYU's LRAP: "Finally, payment under the IBR option allows for negative amortization. Therefore, if a borrower leaves PSLFP prior to earning forgiveness at the 10-year threshold, the borrower will likely owe the Direct Loan program more than when the borrower originally entered PSLFP. However, the Law School is committed to its graduates working in the public interest. Therefore, if a graduate leaves qualifying employment before earning forgiveness under the PSLFP but has met all other LRAP requirements, then the Law School will assist the borrow in payment of any negative amortization to the extent the graduate would be entitled to such assistance under the current program guidelines as set forth in the Program Description for JD Classes Graduating in 2005 and Beyond."

Which is exactly the same as Michigan's. Basically, they help you pay back negative amortization if you leave PI, meaning they will help you get back to $0 increased debt since graduation, rather than being $30k more in debt than when you graduated. But you still have that $210,000 principal plus interest accrued before entering IBR.
http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/lrap/index.htm

Michigan and NYU have substantially similar LRAPs at this point.
--LinkRemoved--

(I think NYU really downgraded their LRAP here. I'm not really a fan of all these schools going to the IBR combination because some people might not want to do law-related public interest for 10 years. Instead of having people go from biglaw to do some public interest for a few years before going in-house, why would you go work a public interest job now? You have to be in it for 10 years to have those years of payments that you were working in PI count for anything!)

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:34 am

michigan_man wrote:Which is exactly the same as Michigan's. Basically, they help you pay back negative amortization if you leave PI, meaning they will help you get back to $0 increased debt since graduation, rather than being $30k more in debt than when you graduated. But you still have that $210,000 principal plus interest accrued before entering IBR.

The NYU program description is very poorly worded and vague at this point, but I am pretty certain you're wrong about this. When they say "the Law School will assist the borrow in payment of any negative amortization to the extent the graduate would be entitled to such assistance under the current program guidelines," this means (I am 95% certain) that they will pay down your debt to the extent that it would have been forgiven under the existing LRAP program. In other words, if you leave the new program after five years, NYU will pay down your loans as if you had been making full payments for five years under a regular ten-year repayment program -- because this is what would have happened under the old program. I'm a current NYU student, and the administration has made a big deal about how under no circumstances will anyone end up worse off under the new program. An obvious aspect of that promise would be making sure that people don't end up getting smacked with giant IBR-induced loan principals to pay off.

NYU's new LRAP, as I understand it, seems far better than Michigan's (higher salary cap + the early-exit forgiveness provisions I mentioned). I think there is some cause to be wary about how few details they've released, though.

Edited to add: Obviously the OP and anyone else considering public interest at NYU should contact Student Financial Services and ask about this. Don't listen to us.

spondee
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:53 pm

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby spondee » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:02 am

cucullu wrote:Concur. I do need to sit down this weekend and have one of my friends who understands MATHS help me actually figure out these school's LRAPs and how they'd work with different jobs I might be interested in.


Yes! People are voting Mich for the $$, but LRAP should matter as much, or more.

And if you're genuinely weighing a desire to clerk in your decision process, then, as a 2L, I recommend forgetting about total article III placement stats.

Instead, ask each school how they support students through the clerkship application process: is there a clerkship office? is it a separate office w/ full-time employee(s)? or is it a professor in her free time? do they help in selecting appropriate, within-reach judges? will they provide students contact info for alumni who've clerked? do they maintain records/evaluations of individual judges as employers? as interviewers? do they help in gathering recommenders/letters? are there limits on # of applications? does the school help coordinate outreach/phone calls to judges? has the school changed its clerkship app process in recent years, particularly in response to ITE? etc.

These sorts of things will matter more than whatever prestige difference does/doesn't exist between NYU and Mich. So much of clerkship hiring is based on ties to judges, phone calls, past practices, luck, etc.

The one way that looking at placement numbers might help is to go to someplace like clerkshipaddict and look at placement locations. You might have preferences about where in the country you'd like/be willing to clerk, so good to see where each school regularly places.

User avatar
lzyovrachievr
Posts: 1695
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:24 am

Re: NYU (sticker) v. Michigan ($$)

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:53 am

michigan_man wrote:Which is exactly the same as Michigan's. Basically, they help you pay back negative amortization if you leave PI, meaning they will help you get back to $0 increased debt since graduation, rather than being $30k more in debt than when you graduated. But you still have that $210,000 principal plus interest accrued before entering IBR.
http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/lrap/index.htm

You have to be in it for 10 years to have those years of payments that you were working in PI count for anything!)


This is incorrect. I know this because I sat through two panels with questions and answers with the LRAP people last weekend. Feel free to contact them. They said specifically that if you leave IBR, they will look at your loans as if you had been on a standard 10 year repayment program and pay them off accordingly so that choosing to do PI makes you no worse off than before. That is what this means:

then the Law School will assist the borrow in payment of any negative amortization to the extent the graduate would be entitled to such assistance under the current program guidelines as set forth in the Program Description for JD Classes Graduating in 2005 and Beyond.


They gave an example that if you leave after 6 years, they will then pay off ~50% of your debt. They essentially switch over to their old program for this, as the bold shows above. And you can also go in and out of the program. If you do, they make sure that your 10 year period is extended to cover the years that you were out so you can take full advantage of the program.

Please contact them about this if you don't believe me, but don't quote more things from the website with an inaccurate interpretation that people might believe without knowing if it's correct. They were very emphatic about the extent of their negative amortization policy and that it was very different from other schools.

I won't speak to Michigan's program though- I don't know any more than what you can get on the website.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 180orDie and 1 guest