I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:58 pm

ajr wrote:
Are you saying management consulting pay isn't as high as a JD? Because that is wrong, management consulting at even a good firm, after MBA, will lead to much higher average pay. You are right that starting salary is lower than the 160k that is biglaw, but bonuses are much higher and once you are in at the post-mba level your partnership chances are much higher and exit options are going to be much higher paying in the long run.


Not sure if you are talking associate pay or partner pay. Mck, Bain, BCG and the like pay ~120-130 base for junior associates. And these are people who were typically making at least 100k before they started on their MBAs. The bonuses in management consulting are not very high, I've heard may be 50% for the real star performers. Long run - yes, the potential is probably higher with a top MBA.

Finance is a different game though - there 100-200% bonuses are more common.

Yup, 130k plus 50% bonus is 195k, which is more than you will make as a first year at most biglaw firms considering very small bonuses on average. Take into account the fact that the chance at partner is MUCH higher and that exit options are likely to net you more money, not less like it is in biglaw. The difference in income over the average person who takes MCK, Bain, and BCG out of MBA and the average person who does biglaw is probably going to be high six figures over a lifetime.

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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby ajr » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:00 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
ajr wrote:
Are you saying management consulting pay isn't as high as a JD? Because that is wrong, management consulting at even a good firm, after MBA, will lead to much higher average pay. You are right that starting salary is lower than the 160k that is biglaw, but bonuses are much higher and once you are in at the post-mba level your partnership chances are much higher and exit options are going to be much higher paying in the long run.


Not sure if you are talking associate pay or partner pay. Mck, Bain, BCG and the like pay ~120-130 base for junior associates. And these are people who were typically making at least 100k before they started on their MBAs. The bonuses in management consulting are not very high, I've heard may be 50% for the real star performers. Long run - yes, the potential is probably higher with a top MBA.

Finance is a different game though - there 100-200% bonuses are more common.

Yup, 130k plus 50% bonus is 195k, which is more than you will make as a first year at most biglaw firms. Take into account the fact that the chance at partner is MUCH higher and that exit options are likely to net you more money, not less like it is in biglaw. The difference in income over the average person who takes MCK, Bain, and BCG out of MBA and the average person who does biglaw is probably going to be high six figures over a lifetime.


Sorry, see my edit. Most people don't make 195, most people make 125+20 = 145k. Even assuming that it is comparable to JD starting pay, consider the fact that these people were typically making 100k before they started on their MBA.

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:09 pm

Admittedly I know much more about consulting pre-mba but I've never heard of it being as low as 145 with bonuses. Also, I'm not sure why you should consider what they did pre-mba? The majority of law school applicants have a couple years of work experience the same as most hbs admits. And again, you need to think about it long term.

Eta also it's worth noting some of the less prestigious firms like deloitte and ow have started paying a good bit more than mbb due to trying to get better talent
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:10 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:The majority of law school applicants have a couple years of work experience the same as most hbs admits.


Wait what?

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:13 pm

bk1 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:The majority of law school applicants have a couple years of work experience the same as most hbs admits.


Wait what?

Maybe this is wrong but I think most law schools list around 50% admits who have we

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bk1
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:19 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:Maybe this is wrong but I think most law schools list around 50% admits who have we


Sounds possible. Though I think the disparity is greater at the top end of the school range for JD vs MBA where the work exp gap widens in both quality and quantity.

Also, it seemed like you were comparing law school applicants versus HBS admits, which seemed really confusing considering there would definitely be a difference between those two.

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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby ajr » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:19 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:The majority of law school applicants have a couple years of work experience the same as most hbs admits.


Wait what?

Maybe this is wrong but I think most law schools list around 50% admits who have we

Two years is too little for an average person to get into any top b-school (there are exceptions). 4-5 is more typical.

Also, the kind of work experience matters a lot. Most importantly, B-schools will pick people who have already shown great promise to succeed in life, or who have already been successful in life. They pick "sure-shot" cases of people who can't go wrong (sadly, they have still been wrong in the last couple of years). I must commend law schools for picking people based simply on academic performances, and then hoping to train them for the real world. This probably explains why the likelihood of success in the real world is lower for law school grads.

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bk1
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:20 pm

ajr wrote:I must commend law schools for picking people based simply on academic performances, and then hoping to train them for the real world.


Please tell me this is sarcasm.

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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby ajr » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:21 pm

bk1 wrote:
ajr wrote:I must commend law schools for picking people based simply on academic performances, and then hoping to train them for the real world.


Please tell me this is sarcasm.


Fixed.

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:24 pm

ajr wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:The majority of law school applicants have a couple years of work experience the same as most hbs admits.

Wait what?

Maybe this is wrong but I think most law schools list around 50% admits who have we

Two years is too little for an average person to get into any top b-school (there are exceptions). 4-5 is more typical.
Also, the kind of work experience matters a lot. Most importantly, B-schools will pick people who have already shown great promise to succeed in life, or who have already been successful in life. They pick "sure-shot" cases of people who can't go wrong (sadly, they have still been wrong in the last couple of years). I must commend law schools for picking people based simply on academic performances, and then hoping to train them for the real world. This probably explains why the likelihood of success in the real world is lower for law school grads.

I think it depends, most consultants I know left for b school at around 3 years and bankers usually get forced out at year two if they aren't getting promoted

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bk1
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:26 pm

ajr wrote:
bk1 wrote:
ajr wrote:I must commend law schools for picking people based simply on academic performances, and then hoping to train them for the real world.


Please tell me this is sarcasm.


Fixed.


I dunno if it is actually commendable to pick people based purely on GPA/LSAT (though I do benefit from that).

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Stringer Bell
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:28 pm

Are people ITT seriously saying that a T14 degree is riskier than starting a business?

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:29 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Are people ITT seriously saying that a T14 degree is riskier than starting a business?

Risky as in less likely to make big money

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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby ajr » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
ajr wrote:
bk1 wrote:
ajr wrote:I must commend law schools for picking people based simply on academic performances, and then hoping to train them for the real world.


Please tell me this is sarcasm.


Fixed.


I dunno if it is actually commendable to pick people based purely on GPA/LSAT (though I do benefit from that).


More commendable would be for Harvard Law to let every applicant in and assure them of great legal skills and a good job when they graduate.

Less commendable would be for Harvard Law to give admission and JDs to people who already have both the lawyering skills and the connections to get a good job when they graduate.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:34 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Are people ITT seriously saying that a T14 degree is riskier than starting a business?

Risky as in less likely to make big money


If we took % of t14 grads that make > 500k and % of people who have started a business that make > 500k, the t14 degree is going to win.

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Flips88
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Flips88 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:34 pm

ajr wrote:More commendable would be for Harvard Law to let every applicant in and assure them of great legal skills and a good job when they graduate.

Less commendable would be for Harvard Law to give admission and JDs to people who already have both the lawyering skills and the connections to get a good job when they graduate.

lolwut?

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:38 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Are people ITT seriously saying that a T14 degree is riskier than starting a business?

Risky as in less likely to make big money


If we took % of t14 grads that make > 500k and % of people who have started a business that make > 500k, the t14 degree is going to win.

Sure, but that's because of the sheer number of companies started especially in low income areas. Think about the number of small privately owned towing or repair shops. But if you limited it to tech start ups, which is like limiting to t14 jd's I'd bet the tech start ups win.

For fuck sake I'm in a class right now with a 21 year old girl who owns and operates a website for pre teens that is worth over a million dollars
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby ajr » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:39 pm

Flips88 wrote:
ajr wrote:More commendable would be for Harvard Law to let every applicant in and assure them of great legal skills and a good job when they graduate.

Less commendable would be for Harvard Law to give admission and JDs to people who already have both the lawyering skills and the connections to get a good job when they graduate.

lolwut?


I'm just saying school A that picks a student based on inclination and interest or purely academic indicators (i.e. law school) is more commendable than school B that picks a student based on the fact that he or she has already shown promise and evidence of career success (i.e. b-school). Isn't the role of school B itself questionable apart from "soft" benefits?

bartleby
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby bartleby » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:42 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:Are people ITT seriously saying that a T14 degree is riskier than starting a business?

Risky as in less likely to make big money


If we took % of t14 grads that make > 500k and % of people who have started a business that make > 500k, the t14 degree is going to win.

Sure, but that's because of the sheer number of companies started especially in low income areas. Think about the number of small privately owned towing or repair shops. But if you limited it to tech start ups, which is like limiting to t14 jd's I'd bet the tech start ups win.

For fuck sake I'm in a class right now with a 21 year old girl who owns and operates a website for pre teens that is worth over a million dollars


starting a business is a pipe dream

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:42 pm

ajr wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
ajr wrote:More commendable would be for Harvard Law to let every applicant in and assure them of great legal skills and a good job when they graduate.

Less commendable would be for Harvard Law to give admission and JDs to people who already have both the lawyering skills and the connections to get a good job when they graduate.

lolwut?


I'm just saying school A that picks a student based on inclination and interest or purely academic indicators (i.e. law school) is more commendable than school B that picks a student based on the fact that he or she has already shown promise and evidence of career success (i.e. b-school). Isn't the role of school B itself questionable apart from "soft" benefits?

If you are saying the b school education itself is useless, I agree, but so is a jd education.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:43 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:Sure, but that's because of the sheer number of companies started especially in low income areas. Think about the number of small privately owned towing or repair shops. But if you limited it to tech start ups, which is like limiting to t14 jd's I'd bet the tech start ups win.


I honestly doubt it. There are shitloads of people that try to start up tech businesses and fail. It's alot more than

1. Think of the next facebook
2. ????
3. Profit

This is a different issue, but the government isn't going to just throw you 200k in financing either like they will for you to attend law school.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:46 pm

bartleby wrote:starting a business is a pipe dream


Ehh. If you have access to the requisite financing, getting into restaurant franchising or opening up a Meineke is a good way to make a living. It's just easier said than done and still hard to get rich.

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Patriot1208
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:51 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Sure, but that's because of the sheer number of companies started especially in low income areas. Think about the number of small privately owned towing or repair shops. But if you limited it to tech start ups, which is like limiting to t14 jd's I'd bet the tech start ups win.

I honestly doubt it. There are shitloads of people that try to start up tech businesses and fail. It's alot more than
1. Think of the next facebook
2. ????
3. Profit
This is a different issue, but the government isn't going to just throw you 200k in financing either like they will for you to attend law school.

Well ya, most fail, but most jd's make far less than 500k. And there are tons of small tech businesses that do shit like run websites and make iphone apps that net the owner tons of money despite you never knowing who they are. It's not like it needs to be fb or google.

One of my uncles actually did this, he started multiple tech start ups, they as all only made him good money but not great money. But he sold each one at varying times in his life, invested heavily, and is now retired in his early fifties living on the beach and boating everyday.
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bartleby
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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby bartleby » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:53 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
bartleby wrote:starting a business is a pipe dream


Ehh. If you have access to the requisite financing, getting into restaurant franchising or opening up a Meineke is a good way to make a living. It's just easier said than done and still hard to get rich.


that's not starting a business though. and the people who opened quiznos franchises got pwnd.

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Re: I want to make a lot of money. T1 with $$ or reapply

Postby paulinaporizkova » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:57 pm

i used to work at a Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory franchise in a town of about 80k in northern MN and the woman who owned it made baaaaank




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