Pitt or Denver

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Pitt or Denver?

Pitt Law (COA $85,000)
17
52%
Denver (COA $115,000)
16
48%
 
Total votes: 33

HeavenWood
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:16 am

firemed wrote:And it is 10 in PA if you double count Penn State's double campuses as well.


That's true. I just choose to call it 9, because both campuses directly feed into the same market (as opposed to the two Wideners).

Whatever1
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:30 am

I'm not sure I would say it's ONLY Duquesne that Pitt is competing against. Like any other place in the country, you will have T25 people who are from the Pittsburgh area that want to come back after law school. You also have Penn State, which I'd imagine tries to place into Pittsburgh and Case Western is only 2 hours away and I've heard those people don't stay in Cleveland by and large.

Point being, with both Pitt and Denver they are not elite schools and therefore are subject to competition from other good schools and perhaps some TTT and TTTT.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:21 pm

Whatever1 wrote:I'm not sure I would say it's ONLY Duquesne that Pitt is competing against. Like any other place in the country, you will have T25 people who are from the Pittsburgh area that want to come back after law school. You also have Penn State, which I'd imagine tries to place into Pittsburgh and Case Western is only 2 hours away and I've heard those people don't stay in Cleveland by and large.

Point being, with both Pitt and Denver they are not elite schools and therefore are subject to competition from other good schools and perhaps some TTT and TTTT.


All the schools you mention will not compete with Pitt grads in Pittsburgh if the students have similar numbers.This is speaking from first hand experience. The only schools that have true pull here over Pitt are T10's, and even those students are rare to find. 75% of K&L Gates and Reed & Smith associates are Pitt grades here. Denver will always compete with Boulder which is the superior school.

Whatever1
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:27 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:I'm not sure I would say it's ONLY Duquesne that Pitt is competing against. Like any other place in the country, you will have T25 people who are from the Pittsburgh area that want to come back after law school. You also have Penn State, which I'd imagine tries to place into Pittsburgh and Case Western is only 2 hours away and I've heard those people don't stay in Cleveland by and large.

Point being, with both Pitt and Denver they are not elite schools and therefore are subject to competition from other good schools and perhaps some TTT and TTTT.


All the schools you mention will not compete with Pitt grads in Pittsburgh if the students have similar numbers.This is speaking from first hand experience. The only schools that have true pull here over Pitt are T10's, and even those students are rare to find. 75% of K&L Gates and Reed & Smith associates are Pitt grades here. Denver will always compete with Boulder which is the superior school.


Not to be an asshole, but your number about 75% at K&L Gates and Reed Smith being Pitt grads is just not correct. I just looked on K&L's website: They have 196 attorneys practicing in Pittsburgh and 54 of them when to Pitt. That's definitely not 75%, more like 25-30%. Big difference.

HeavenWood
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:51 pm

Whatever1 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:I'm not sure I would say it's ONLY Duquesne that Pitt is competing against. Like any other place in the country, you will have T25 people who are from the Pittsburgh area that want to come back after law school. You also have Penn State, which I'd imagine tries to place into Pittsburgh and Case Western is only 2 hours away and I've heard those people don't stay in Cleveland by and large.

Point being, with both Pitt and Denver they are not elite schools and therefore are subject to competition from other good schools and perhaps some TTT and TTTT.


All the schools you mention will not compete with Pitt grads in Pittsburgh if the students have similar numbers.This is speaking from first hand experience. The only schools that have true pull here over Pitt are T10's, and even those students are rare to find. 75% of K&L Gates and Reed & Smith associates are Pitt grades here. Denver will always compete with Boulder which is the superior school.


Not to be an asshole, but your number about 75% at K&L Gates and Reed Smith being Pitt grads is just not correct. I just looked on K&L's website: They have 196 attorneys practicing in Pittsburgh and 54 of them when to Pitt. That's definitely not 75%, more like 25-30%. Big difference.


His point still stands. Sure, there are some people who go to school outside the region and want to come back, but Pitt is not a "hot commodity" like NYC, DC, Chicago, or SF. The competition Pitt faces beyond Duquesne is very minimal.

Whatever1
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:10 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:I'm not sure I would say it's ONLY Duquesne that Pitt is competing against. Like any other place in the country, you will have T25 people who are from the Pittsburgh area that want to come back after law school. You also have Penn State, which I'd imagine tries to place into Pittsburgh and Case Western is only 2 hours away and I've heard those people don't stay in Cleveland by and large.

Point being, with both Pitt and Denver they are not elite schools and therefore are subject to competition from other good schools and perhaps some TTT and TTTT.


All the schools you mention will not compete with Pitt grads in Pittsburgh if the students have similar numbers.This is speaking from first hand experience. The only schools that have true pull here over Pitt are T10's, and even those students are rare to find. 75% of K&L Gates and Reed & Smith associates are Pitt grades here. Denver will always compete with Boulder which is the superior school.


Not to be an asshole, but your number about 75% at K&L Gates and Reed Smith being Pitt grads is just not correct. I just looked on K&L's website: They have 196 attorneys practicing in Pittsburgh and 54 of them when to Pitt. That's definitely not 75%, more like 25-30%. Big difference.


His point still stands. Sure, there are some people who go to school outside the region and want to come back, but Pitt is not a "hot commodity" like NYC, DC, Chicago, or SF. The competition Pitt faces beyond Duquesne is very minimal.


I just did the same search for Duquesne and they have 37 of the 196 attorneys at K&L Gates in Pittsburgh. Could it be that these are older people and Duquesne used to be a better school?

I'm just not sure I can understand how the competition Pitt faces beyond Duquesne can be minimal if you look at these numbers. Pitt having 28% of their markets biggest firm is not "facing no competition" to me. Plus, if you add Pitt and Dusquesne's attorney's together, that means K&L has 91 out of 196 from the 2 Pittsburgh school. So over 50% of their attorneys came from schools outside of Pittsburgh. So they DO face competition, those numbers prove that. It doesn't make sense to say they don't if they're only get 28% of the market. I'm not saying DU is dominating the big law firms in Denver (they too have about 25%), but the argument that Pitt just runs shit in Pittsburgh doesn't seem to make sense the more I look into it.

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observationalist
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby observationalist » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:20 pm

Whatever1 wrote:
Stonewall wrote:115k for Denver? Are you crazy- don't do that


What's the reasoning behind this? I have no undergrad debt so I think it'd be managable even if you make a salary like $60K, though I really don't buy that employment prospects are that bad.


While I would never say you should fall for unsubstantiated claims about employment prospects being really bad, you do need to at least look at the actual data that's out there. Let's look at each school in turn, using the most recent available data (for the Class of 2009, per the data U.S. News just released along with this year's rankings).

Denver reported 40% of '09 grads in law firms (which includes solo practitioners, doc review jobs lasting at least one week, and depending on how the school categorized them, graduates employed with legal temp agencies.) Just half of '09 private sector graduates reported salaries along with their employment status. This means the salary statistics are severely skewed, likely towards the top of the pool. Assuming this, that means the median salary statistic of $71K might only be the median for the top 20% of the class. So if you landed in the top 10% back then in 2009 (the best legal hiring market on record), you might have ended up with a job making $71K or more. If you only landed in the top 20% back then, you would've been closer to what the school advertises as the 25th percentile, or $55K.

Now you need to figure out what today's placement figures look like. Absent getting this same data for the Class of 2010 (which requires you to contact the school and ask for it directly), a risk-averse applicant should probably cut these percentages by half. Doing so accounts for the significant drop in entry-level jobs available, which occurred across all sectors and all regions. Which means 2010 grads may have had a 10% chance of making 55K or more and a 5% chance of making 71K or more. These percentages will be a little higher since some government jobs will pay that much and since at least some business/industry jobs will be legal in nature, but you get the idea.

Pitt reported 57% in law firms, with just 42% of them reporting salaries. The advertised 25th percentile (62K) for the class of 2009 was probably higher than the true median for law firm salaries, meaning that if you were lucky enough to get a firm job out of Pitt in 2009 you were most likely making less than 62K. Discounting by half (again absent the real '10 data), this means that the top 20% came out making 55K or more.

For many schools, the job outcomes for the Class of 2011 will be the same or worse than they were for 2010. I'm not saying these are horrible outcomes, only that these are the type of risk calculations you should be making before you commit to going to either school. As I've been telling other applicants, you should be contacting the schools directly and ask for the 2010 data they just supplied to NALP. The clearest picture you can get of the job placement is to see a full employer list showing where each graduate went for work, but the NALP data will at least allow you to base a decision on the true percentages (rather than the ones I just estimated above). G'luck.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby observationalist » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:32 pm

Whatever1 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:Polling is completely even, so it seems to me like most people don't think it's a stupid idea to pay 30K more for Denver if I like it more.

I'm beginning to feel the same way, especially after calculating some of the payments. I'm extremely debt-averse and am willing to live frugally to get the debt paid off quickly. At Pitt, making $1400 a month payments it can be done in 5 years and at Denver with the same payment it can be done in 8 years. Those 3 extra years don't seem too hard to swallow to me. And the payments seem doable, even if at Denver I only make something like $65K a year thats still a take home pay of about $4500 a month. Obviously if I do really well at school and make $85K+ it can be done much quicker.


I think the truth is that you need to do really well to make 65k, and that 85k is just a pipe dream. Employement numbers out of DU at the moment are very poor. Maybe better in a couple years but that is a huge gamble.

You need to be top 1/3 at DU to have a shot at 65k. Probably with some moot court/law review experience.

EDIT: by the way I still voted for DU.


I'm sorry I'm just not sure I buy that. I know what the employment numbers say, but DU is also difficult to work with apparently for people seeking their numbers for write-ups about law schools. So we truly don't know what they're employment is, which is scary. But c'mon, top 1/3 to have a shot at 65K? I don't buy it. Denver the city has relatively high income levels. The average attorney salary with less than 5 years experience there is 75K according to PayScale. Most attorneys in Denver are DU grads. So it doesn't add up that only 1/3 of the DU grads would make 65K. That would mean 2/3 of attorneys out of DU would make what high school teachers in Denver make, sorry I just don't believe it. I could be wrong but I don't believe it.


Whatever, please see the post I just made. I strongly suggest you contact the school for '10 data. They have it at their fingertips and should be able to tell you some fairly basic statistics without hesitation. Specifically, I would ask the following:

For Salaries: how many graduates reported salaries, how many graduates were in the class, and what were the 25th/median/75ths for graduates in the private sector?

For Jobs: how many graduates were in the private sector? how many were in FT law firm positions? how many were in a job that required bar passage?


Also, if you look at the 2008 data here: --LinkRemoved--
You'll note that just 28.2% of the class made $51K or more. Again, that was in a very strong year for entry-level jobs. For 2010 it could have been 14% making 51K and just about everyone else either unemployed, underemployed, or making less than that. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from attending law school altogether, but you need to accept the realities of the hiring market when figuring out how much debt you're comfortable taking on.

Whatever1
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:24 pm

observationalist wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:Polling is completely even, so it seems to me like most people don't think it's a stupid idea to pay 30K more for Denver if I like it more.

I'm beginning to feel the same way, especially after calculating some of the payments. I'm extremely debt-averse and am willing to live frugally to get the debt paid off quickly. At Pitt, making $1400 a month payments it can be done in 5 years and at Denver with the same payment it can be done in 8 years. Those 3 extra years don't seem too hard to swallow to me. And the payments seem doable, even if at Denver I only make something like $65K a year thats still a take home pay of about $4500 a month. Obviously if I do really well at school and make $85K+ it can be done much quicker.


I think the truth is that you need to do really well to make 65k, and that 85k is just a pipe dream. Employement numbers out of DU at the moment are very poor. Maybe better in a couple years but that is a huge gamble.

You need to be top 1/3 at DU to have a shot at 65k. Probably with some moot court/law review experience.

EDIT: by the way I still voted for DU.


I'm sorry I'm just not sure I buy that. I know what the employment numbers say, but DU is also difficult to work with apparently for people seeking their numbers for write-ups about law schools. So we truly don't know what they're employment is, which is scary. But c'mon, top 1/3 to have a shot at 65K? I don't buy it. Denver the city has relatively high income levels. The average attorney salary with less than 5 years experience there is 75K according to PayScale. Most attorneys in Denver are DU grads. So it doesn't add up that only 1/3 of the DU grads would make 65K. That would mean 2/3 of attorneys out of DU would make what high school teachers in Denver make, sorry I just don't believe it. I could be wrong but I don't believe it.


Whatever, please see the post I just made. I strongly suggest you contact the school for '10 data. They have it at their fingertips and should be able to tell you some fairly basic statistics without hesitation. Specifically, I would ask the following:

For Salaries: how many graduates reported salaries, how many graduates were in the class, and what were the 25th/median/75ths for graduates in the private sector?

For Jobs: how many graduates were in the private sector? how many were in FT law firm positions? how many were in a job that required bar passage?


Also, if you look at the 2008 data here: --LinkRemoved--
You'll note that just 28.2% of the class made $51K or more. Again, that was in a very strong year for entry-level jobs. For 2010 it could have been 14% making 51K and just about everyone else either unemployed, underemployed, or making less than that. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from attending law school altogether, but you need to accept the realities of the hiring market when figuring out how much debt you're comfortable taking on.


I just think it's very difficult ot quantify exactly what people are making. DU has alot of part-time students who are not looking for traditional employment (parent goes back to school to earn his/her long desired JD but doesn't jump right into a career) that skews the numbers and according to the transparency website only 44% of students' salary numbers are known. That's not a big number at all to be making judgements. But I REALLY do appreciate your lengthy response.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby observationalist » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:36 pm

Whatever1 wrote:
observationalist wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
I think the truth is that you need to do really well to make 65k, and that 85k is just a pipe dream. Employement numbers out of DU at the moment are very poor. Maybe better in a couple years but that is a huge gamble.

You need to be top 1/3 at DU to have a shot at 65k. Probably with some moot court/law review experience.

EDIT: by the way I still voted for DU.


I'm sorry I'm just not sure I buy that. I know what the employment numbers say, but DU is also difficult to work with apparently for people seeking their numbers for write-ups about law schools. So we truly don't know what they're employment is, which is scary. But c'mon, top 1/3 to have a shot at 65K? I don't buy it. Denver the city has relatively high income levels. The average attorney salary with less than 5 years experience there is 75K according to PayScale. Most attorneys in Denver are DU grads. So it doesn't add up that only 1/3 of the DU grads would make 65K. That would mean 2/3 of attorneys out of DU would make what high school teachers in Denver make, sorry I just don't believe it. I could be wrong but I don't believe it.


Whatever, please see the post I just made. I strongly suggest you contact the school for '10 data. They have it at their fingertips and should be able to tell you some fairly basic statistics without hesitation. Specifically, I would ask the following:

For Salaries: how many graduates reported salaries, how many graduates were in the class, and what were the 25th/median/75ths for graduates in the private sector?

For Jobs: how many graduates were in the private sector? how many were in FT law firm positions? how many were in a job that required bar passage?


Also, if you look at the 2008 data here: --LinkRemoved--
You'll note that just 28.2% of the class made $51K or more. Again, that was in a very strong year for entry-level jobs. For 2010 it could have been 14% making 51K and just about everyone else either unemployed, underemployed, or making less than that. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from attending law school altogether, but you need to accept the realities of the hiring market when figuring out how much debt you're comfortable taking on.


I just think it's very difficult ot quantify exactly what people are making. DU has alot of part-time students who are not looking for traditional employment (parent goes back to school to earn his/her long desired JD but doesn't jump right into a career) that skews the numbers and according to the transparency website only 44% of students' salary numbers are known. That's not a big number at all to be making judgements. But I REALLY do appreciate your lengthy response.


You're right to point out the differences for a school like DU, where PTers can skew the results. But generally, a low number of graduates reporting salaries is considered to be a bad thing. There are a finite number of reasons why they didn't report:

1) embarrassed about salary = low salary
2) can't compute annual salary = PT/low salary
3) doesn't have a job but lies so the school leaves them alone = no salary
4) privately negotiated salary with small law firm = potentially decent salary depending on success of firm in the coming year, but difficult to predict
5) has a good job but doesn't want the school to get credit for it because of what happened to their classmates/friends

Feel free to add. These have come out of talks we've had with career services deans at some of the more regional law schools, where large percentages of graduates end up discouraged, or doing PT/temp work, or angry and dismissive, or in a position where they negotiated a salary and don't really know what's in store. As far as people in group 5 go, schools take the liberty of filling in information whenever an employer is listed in NALP. So even if the top 5% of a class all got together and boycotted the employment survey, a career services office could still confirm with the employer and then match up the public starting salaries listed on NALP and list them. The same is true for graduates who end up in government, since the salaries are again usually public. Schools have a very strong incentive to seek out and report every high salary, and we've seen plenty of accusations across the country where schools are protecting their advertised medians by ignoring graduates who they know aren't earning much.

But, you're welcome. As I said, if you do hear back from the schools you'd be doing a service to other applicants if you posted the responses (or at least the substantive portions).

HeavenWood
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:50 pm

In conclusion:

Choose Pitt for Pittsburgh and Denver for Denver. :lol:

Whatever1
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:59 pm

HeavenWood wrote:In conclusion:

Choose Pitt for Pittsburgh and Denver for Denver. :lol:


:) Exactly. And what I found out about Pitt's true placement in big firms like K&L just cemented that as far as I'm concerned. Big Law firms in both Denver and Pittsburgh have 25-30% of their attorneys from DU and Pitt.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:00 pm

This topic has become mildly entertaining to me as OP if desperately fighting for DU simply because he/she has their mind made up on DU and needs to justify it. I'm out, enjoy whatever pick you make. If you honestly think Pitt has ANY competition at all in Pittsburgh outside of the rare T10 grad who for whatever reason decides to come here then you simply haven't visited and spoken to partners and hiring coordinators in the Pittsburgh legal market.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:08 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:This topic has become mildly entertaining to me as OP if desperately fighting for DU simply because he/she has their mind made up on DU and needs to justify it. I'm out, enjoy whatever pick you make. If you honestly think Pitt has ANY competition at all in Pittsburgh outside of the rare T10 grad who for whatever reason decides to come here then you simply haven't visited and spoken to partners and hiring coordinators in the Pittsburgh legal market.


It's not as cut-and-dry as that, but the OP needs to keep in mind that back in the day, having ties to markets wasn't nearly as necessary. There were far fewer law schools and far fewer lawyers. Competition wasn't nearly as fierce, so regional law schools had much more mobility. At my dad's Philly MidLaw, in addition to the usual mix of Penn, Temple, Villanova, Rutgers, and Widener grads, there are partners from Arkansas, Louisville, Duquesne, and even Cooley. That's right. Cooley. While Pittsburgh's legal market as a whole may have only 25-30% Pitt representation, this more greatly reflects the fact that past hiring =/= present hiring.

I also find it hilarious that the OP makes a poll, and then decides to argue with the results of the poll.

Also, Duquesne did use to be the better law school. Back in the day, Pitt used to be the TTTT and Duquesne used to be the TT. That started changing around the 1980s, I believe.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:09 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:This topic has become mildly entertaining to me as OP if desperately fighting for DU simply because he/she has their mind made up on DU and needs to justify it. I'm out, enjoy whatever pick you make. If you honestly think Pitt has ANY competition at all in Pittsburgh outside of the rare T10 grad who for whatever reason decides to come here then you simply haven't visited and spoken to partners and hiring coordinators in the Pittsburgh legal market.


So then the numbers on the firm websites are fabricated then? K&L truly employs 75% Pitt grads, not 27% as stated on the website and they also made up the fact that over 50% of their attorneys in their Pittsburgh office are not from Pitt or Dusquesne?

I am harping on that fact because you're right, I'd rather go to Denver. I was thinking Pitt because I really did believe their placement was much better because of lack of competition, but the more I dig the more I see that's exaggerated.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:11 pm

Whatever1 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:This topic has become mildly entertaining to me as OP if desperately fighting for DU simply because he/she has their mind made up on DU and needs to justify it. I'm out, enjoy whatever pick you make. If you honestly think Pitt has ANY competition at all in Pittsburgh outside of the rare T10 grad who for whatever reason decides to come here then you simply haven't visited and spoken to partners and hiring coordinators in the Pittsburgh legal market.


So then the numbers on the firm websites are fabricated then? K&L truly employs 75% Pitt grads, not 27% as stated on the website and they also made up the fact that over 50% of their attorneys in their Pittsburgh office are not from Pitt or Dusquesne?

I am harping on that fact because you're right, I'd rather go to Denver. I was thinking Pitt because I really did believe their placement was much better because of lack of competition, but the more I dig the more I see that's exaggerated.


The difference in employment prospects probably comes down to a couple percentage points--again, not nearly enough to justify picking one school over the other. Denver for Denver, Pitt for Pittsburgh. I'll say it 'till I'm blue in the face.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby Whatever1 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:15 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Whatever1 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:This topic has become mildly entertaining to me as OP if desperately fighting for DU simply because he/she has their mind made up on DU and needs to justify it. I'm out, enjoy whatever pick you make. If you honestly think Pitt has ANY competition at all in Pittsburgh outside of the rare T10 grad who for whatever reason decides to come here then you simply haven't visited and spoken to partners and hiring coordinators in the Pittsburgh legal market.


So then the numbers on the firm websites are fabricated then? K&L truly employs 75% Pitt grads, not 27% as stated on the website and they also made up the fact that over 50% of their attorneys in their Pittsburgh office are not from Pitt or Dusquesne?

I am harping on that fact because you're right, I'd rather go to Denver. I was thinking Pitt because I really did believe their placement was much better because of lack of competition, but the more I dig the more I see that's exaggerated.


The difference in employment prospects probably comes down to a couple percentage points--again, not nearly enough to justify picking one school over the other. Denver for Denver, Pitt for Pittsburgh. I'll say it 'till I'm blue in the face.


I should have listened to you 3 days ago, I could have saved myself about 2 hours of research :)

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:14 pm

Whatever1 wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:This topic has become mildly entertaining to me as OP if desperately fighting for DU simply because he/she has their mind made up on DU and needs to justify it. I'm out, enjoy whatever pick you make. If you honestly think Pitt has ANY competition at all in Pittsburgh outside of the rare T10 grad who for whatever reason decides to come here then you simply haven't visited and spoken to partners and hiring coordinators in the Pittsburgh legal market.


So then the numbers on the firm websites are fabricated then? K&L truly employs 75% Pitt grads, not 27% as stated on the website and they also made up the fact that over 50% of their attorneys in their Pittsburgh office are not from Pitt or Dusquesne?

I am harping on that fact because you're right, I'd rather go to Denver. I was thinking Pitt because I really did believe their placement was much better because of lack of competition, but the more I dig the more I see that's exaggerated.


No, its more of what HW said, the current hiring is not representative of past hiring. Partners from schools like LSU are in some Pittsburgh biglaw firms, but those were hired like 20 years back. From personal experience as well speaking with hiring partners I can tell you that for Pittsburgh they basically talk to Pitt grads, top 5% Dusquene grads, and the very very rare T10 grad who for some reason comes here. Thats pretty much it. If you enjoy Denver I would go to Denver, it just seems to me that paying 35k more for a school that who has more competition isn't terribly wise but I wish you well in your decision.

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Re: Pitt or Denver

Postby CinnamonRose » Sun May 01, 2011 9:36 pm

I find it amusing and a tad alarming that this poster is trying to make a math equation of risk into a life decision of unknown factors - because its always unknown - the "trends" and salary stats are guideposts but any given student may or may not fall into the parameters based on working hard, connections, networking, luck, etc.
If you really are this into statistical risk, might I suggest you work in insurance or the securities market instead of law?
Where is there any concern of what you will do day to day - practicing law and living life in and out of work. Your salary is something you take home, not something you are. And you know what, even well paid experienced lawyers can lose their jobs in an economic slump. So go into law and got to the school that excites you and makes you want to be there. If neither do...think harder about why you are doing this. Just for the money?
As pointed out, people make more in other fields.

Do it because you love what you do and when you step out of the office, you love the cultural fit of the city or town to you as a person.
You are trying to get assurances in life and guarantees and in life and in law, its not that simple.




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