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ahduth
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby ahduth » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:15 pm

Why is Chicago a question again?

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Attorney
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby Attorney » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:16 pm

eaa1537 wrote:
Attorney wrote:
eaa1537 wrote:For those voting Chicago- I realize it's a good offer, but will I have a more difficult time coming back to the east coast compared to graduating from Penn or Columbia?

No, you won't have any difficulty at all. This is U-Chicago, easily, go visit.
OR, take your UChicago $75k to Penn and ask for more than $75k to make it worth your while.
OR, take your UChicago $75k to Columbia and ask for $75k+.


I'm emailing Columbia asking for more money but am not hopeful about it. Unfortunately, I don't think Penn will go up anymore. I was an alternate for the Levy and ended up getting another one of their lesser named scholarships. I don't think anyone's turned down the Levy yet so that's out of the picture for now, and I remember reading somewhere that they don't give awards above 75,000 if it's unnamed, but I could be wrong.

In that case, the most logical options for you are U-Chicago, U-Chicago, or U-Chicago. If you visit and really hate the school, then fine. Do something else. But it's hard for me to imagine someone turning it down in this circumstance.

eaa1537
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby eaa1537 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:23 pm

ahduth wrote:Why is Chicago a question again?

If you mean why is it not the obvious choice for me, it's because I'm not too keen on the idea of attending. But based on all these responses I've emailed them asking if I can still attend the ASW to see for myself.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby tea_drinker » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:26 pm

absolutazn87 wrote:I'm not trying to compare the math or say that Chicago is worse than Penn or even that they're the same. I'm just saying it's comparable, especially when talking about clerkships.

And you're not really backing up the assertion that any Chicago grads that self-select into Chicago can DEFINITELY get NYC. I don't see any numbers backing that up.


I am not trying to pick an argument, but same goes with UPenn grads. In other words, I don't think you can back up the assertion that the remaining of Penn grads, who don't get NYC/DC big law jobs or clerkship, can definitely get NYC firm jobs either.

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bk1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:29 pm

absolutazn87 wrote:I'm not trying to compare the math or say that Chicago is worse than Penn or even that they're the same. I'm just saying it's comparable, especially when talking about clerkships.

And you're not really backing up the assertion that any Chicago grads that self-select into Chicago can DEFINITELY get NYC. I don't see any numbers backing that up.


Chicago is hard to get than NYC. They got Chicago. Therefore they could get NYC.

Simple enough?

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ahduth
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby ahduth » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:31 pm

tea_drinker wrote:
absolutazn87 wrote:I'm not trying to compare the math or say that Chicago is worse than Penn or even that they're the same. I'm just saying it's comparable, especially when talking about clerkships.

And you're not really backing up the assertion that any Chicago grads that self-select into Chicago can DEFINITELY get NYC. I don't see any numbers backing that up.


I am not trying to pick an argument, but same goes with UPenn grads. In other words, I don't think you can back up the assertion that the remaining of Penn grads, who don't get NYC/DC big law jobs or clerkship, can definitely get NYC firm jobs either.


My impression is that NY firms grab Chicago grads, because there's so few of them. Penn is a great school, and you're certainly going to do fine for yourself there. Chicago is a slight cut above, however.

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absolutazn87
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby absolutazn87 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:35 pm

bk1 wrote:
absolutazn87 wrote:I'm not trying to compare the math or say that Chicago is worse than Penn or even that they're the same. I'm just saying it's comparable, especially when talking about clerkships.

And you're not really backing up the assertion that any Chicago grads that self-select into Chicago can DEFINITELY get NYC. I don't see any numbers backing that up.


Chicago is hard to get than NYC. They got Chicago. Therefore they could get NYC.

Simple enough?

Chicago is harder to get for schools that aren't in or near Chicago. A giant percentage of grads out of Northwestern get Chicago but that doesn't mean they all self-selected and all could have gotten NYC. Geography does still play a part. UCLA places most of its class in LA and LA is a harder market than NY but that doesn't mean they all could have gotten NYC.

Chicago is an awesome school and definitely a stronger choice than Penn. But it's not heads and shoulders above it. I know quite a few people who turned down Chicago for Michigan or Penn or Berk. It's not the only choice here.

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bk1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:41 pm

absolutazn87 wrote:Chicago is harder to get for schools that aren't in or near Chicago. A giant percentage of grads out of Northwestern get Chicago but that doesn't mean they all self-selected and all could have gotten NYC. Geography does still play a part. UCLA places most of its class in LA and LA is a harder market than NY but that doesn't mean they all could have gotten NYC.

Chicago is an awesome school and definitely a stronger choice than Penn. But it's not heads and shoulders above it. I know quite a few people who turned down Chicago for Michigan or Penn or Berk. It's not the only choice here.


UChi isn't UCLA though. I'm talking specifically those who got Chicago biglaw out of UChi. Had all those kids bid on NYC instead of Chicago, I think they pretty much all would have gotten NYC biglaw.

Personally I think that UChi isn't better enough that if one's goal was NYC biglaw that choosing Penn at equal cost would be completely insane. But UChi is better and if OP wants to maximize chances then take UChi. However if OP really hates Chicago or UChi that much, then sure take UPenn.

eaa1537
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby eaa1537 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:50 pm

bk1 wrote: UChi isn't UCLA though. I'm talking specifically those who got Chicago biglaw out of UChi. Had all those kids bid on NYC instead of Chicago, I think they pretty much all would have gotten NYC biglaw.

Personally I think that UChi isn't better enough that if one's goal was NYC biglaw that choosing Penn at equal cost would be completely insane. But UChi is better and if OP wants to maximize chances then take UChi. However if OP really hates Chicago or UChi that much, then sure take UPenn.


I'm curious why Columbia is out of the running in your comment. Is it simply because you two were discussing Penn vs Chicago, or do you think my decision should not include Columbia at all?

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bk1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

eaa1537 wrote:I'm curious why Columbia is out of the running in your comment. Is it simply because you two were discussing Penn vs Chicago, or do you think my decision should not include Columbia at all?


Penn and UChi are similar cost. CLS is way too expensive to sanely justify taking it over UChi (a peer school).

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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby eaa1537 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:55 pm

bk1 wrote:
eaa1537 wrote:I'm curious why Columbia is out of the running in your comment. Is it simply because you two were discussing Penn vs Chicago, or do you think my decision should not include Columbia at all?

Penn and UChi are similar cost. CLS is way too expensive to sanely justify taking it over UChi (a peer school).

So I've heard haha, alright thanks!

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Knock
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:58 pm

This is the thread i've been looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151221.

Cost of Attendance:
CLS- $222,000
Chi- $204,030
Penn- $204,450

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tea_drinker
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby tea_drinker » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:00 pm

ahduth wrote:
tea_drinker wrote:
absolutazn87 wrote:I'm not trying to compare the math or say that Chicago is worse than Penn or even that they're the same. I'm just saying it's comparable, especially when talking about clerkships.

And you're not really backing up the assertion that any Chicago grads that self-select into Chicago can DEFINITELY get NYC. I don't see any numbers backing that up.


I am not trying to pick an argument, but same goes with UPenn grads. In other words, I don't think you can back up the assertion that the remaining of Penn grads, who don't get NYC/DC big law jobs or clerkship, can definitely get NYC firm jobs either.


My impression is that NY firms grab Chicago grads, because there's so few of them. Penn is a great school, and you're certainly going to do fine for yourself there. Chicago is a slight cut above, however.


I don't disagree with you. Are you quoting me because you concur with my saying or oppose?

bk1 wrote:
eaa1537 wrote:I'm curious why Columbia is out of the running in your comment. Is it simply because you two were discussing Penn vs Chicago, or do you think my decision should not include Columbia at all?


Penn and UChi are similar cost. CLS is way too expensive to sanely justify taking it over UChi (a peer school).


And this is why we are debating why you also should pick UChi over UPenn.

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bk1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:02 pm

Knock wrote:This is the thread i've been looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151221.

Cost of Attendance:
CLS- $222,000
Chi- $204,030
Penn- $204,450


Dude, you had to look for a thread and couldn't just use Google?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=columbia+law+tuition
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chicago+law+tuition
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=penn+law+tuition

:P

eaa1537
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby eaa1537 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:03 pm

Knock wrote:This is the thread i've been looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151221.
Cost of Attendance:
CLS- $222,000
Chi- $204,030
Penn- $204,450

Those are scary numbers, and I'm actually fairly certain that Columbia's COA has gone up to 77,000/year... not helping my case for wanting to attend haha

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Knock
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:04 pm

eaa1537 wrote:
Knock wrote:This is the thread i've been looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151221.
Cost of Attendance:
CLS- $231,000
Chi- $204,030
Penn- $204,450

Those are scary numbers, and I'm actually fairly certain that Columbia's COA has gone up to 77,000/year... not helping my case for wanting to attend haha


Haha, so make that $231,000 for CLS.

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bk1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:11 pm

eaa1537 wrote:
Knock wrote:This is the thread i've been looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151221.
Cost of Attendance:
CLS- $222,000
Chi- $204,030
Penn- $204,450

Those are scary numbers, and I'm actually fairly certain that Columbia's COA has gone up to 77,000/year... not helping my case for wanting to attend haha


If USNWR is right then I think Chi and Penn didn't go up (assuming I'm reading it right).

eaa1537
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby eaa1537 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:26 pm

bk1 wrote:
eaa1537 wrote:
Knock wrote:This is the thread i've been looking for: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151221.
Cost of Attendance:
CLS- $222,000
Chi- $204,030
Penn- $204,450

Those are scary numbers, and I'm actually fairly certain that Columbia's COA has gone up to 77,000/year... not helping my case for wanting to attend haha

If USNWR is right then I think Chi and Penn didn't go up (assuming I'm reading it right).


Yeah... I'm sending Columbia another negotiation email, asking Penn to be reconsidered for the Levy and am going to visit Chicago. I appreciate everyone's feedback and will gladly take any additional suggestions/advice. Also thanks to all those who've been PMing me!

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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
absolutazn87 wrote:Chicago is harder to get for schools that aren't in or near Chicago. A giant percentage of grads out of Northwestern get Chicago but that doesn't mean they all self-selected and all could have gotten NYC. Geography does still play a part. UCLA places most of its class in LA and LA is a harder market than NY but that doesn't mean they all could have gotten NYC.

Chicago is an awesome school and definitely a stronger choice than Penn. But it's not heads and shoulders above it. I know quite a few people who turned down Chicago for Michigan or Penn or Berk. It's not the only choice here.


UChi isn't UCLA though. I'm talking specifically those who got Chicago biglaw out of UChi. Had all those kids bid on NYC instead of Chicago, I think they pretty much all would have gotten NYC biglaw.

Personally I think that UChi isn't better enough that if one's goal was NYC biglaw that choosing Penn at equal cost would be completely insane. But UChi is better and if OP wants to maximize chances then take UChi. However if OP really hates Chicago or UChi that much, then sure take UPenn.
Based on what? I know people at Chicago and U of M who didn't get the NYC firm jobs they wanted but got a Chicago job because it's basically home market. I'm not saying your wrong, but you're not convincing either. The "take my word" for it shtick that's going on in this thread is unimpressive even for TLS standards. Obviously there are more jobs in NYC and Chicago's the harder market to break into, but if you're the premier school in the city....I would assume that it's not as difficult as it is for others. With that said, if you don't like Chicago...don't go. It's that simple. Do not go somewhere if you'll be unhappy there.

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bk1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:53 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:Based on what? I know people at Chicago and U of M who didn't get the NYC firm jobs they wanted but got a Chicago job because it's basically home market. I'm not saying your wrong, but you're not convincing either. The "take my word" for it shtick that's going on in this thread is unimpressive even for TLS standards. Obviously there are more jobs in NYC and Chicago's the harder market to break into, but if you're the premier school in the city....I would assume that it's not as difficult as it is for others. With that said, if you don't like Chicago...don't go. It's that simple. Do not go somewhere if you'll be unhappy there.


It seems to be the opinion of the 1L's and 2L's. If they say that it isn't true then I'll take their word for it.

As for liking or not liking Chicago, I feel it is a bit presumptuous for OP to think that prior to actually visiting.

eaa1537
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby eaa1537 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:57 pm

My desire not to go to Chicago is based on the school's location, not the school. It's a great school and I don't think anyone is denying that. But I'm not about to just pick up my life on the east coast and move to the Midwest because they're giving me more money than Columbia is, or because it's a better school than Penn. Yes, I'll go visit, but I wouldn't say I'm being presumptuous.

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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby sarahlawg » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:27 pm

eaa1537 wrote:My desire not to go to Chicago is based on the school's location, not the school. It's a great school and I don't think anyone is denying that. But I'm not about to just pick up my life on the east coast and move to the Midwest because they're giving me more money than Columbia is, or because it's a better school than Penn. Yes, I'll go visit, but I wouldn't say I'm being presumptuous.


I have several friends who moved from NY to Chi and they all tell me that there's hardly a difference. Most say they even forget they live in IL. South of the law school, I've read Hyde Park can be dangerous. Most people just stay north and supposedly Chi has good security. Definitely worth a visit, hope to see you there this weekend :) FWIW, I don't think the difference between Penn and Chi is big enough to take Chi over it at equal cost if you hate Penn. Columbia is just ridiculously expensive, though.

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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby sonervous88 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:53 pm

fyi i'm in a similar situation (but have received no money from columbia) and i've ruled out uchicago because i didn't like it when I visited. go visit. if you don't like it then stop worrying about this. lol you have great options and you will be fine.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:55 pm

Regents where most UChi 1Ls live is barely cheaper than the subsidized Columbia housing. So really it would just come down to the difference in tuition and you have to decide for yourself if you feel that it's worth it. Furthermore, Chicago and NYC have different personalities they are not exactly alike. NY people have an entirely different persona.

Also, are you interested in clinicals? Do you think that you might want to do something else besides corporate law?

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Knock
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Re: Columbia $ vs. Chicago $$ vs. Penn $$

Postby Knock » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Non-Chalant1 wrote:Regents where most UChi 1Ls live is barely cheaper than the subsidized Columbia housing. So really it would just come down to the difference in tuition and you have to decide for yourself if you feel that it's worth it. Furthermore, Chicago and NYC have different personalities they are not exactly alike. NY people have an entirely different persona.

Also, are you interested in clinicals? Do you think that you might want to do something else besides corporate law?


If you want, you can find housing for cheaper than regents.




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