Columbia vs Vandy ($)

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Columbia sticker vs. Vandy scholly

Columbia @ Sticker (COA: 200k)
123
76%
Vandy w/ 65k (COA: 100k)
39
24%
 
Total votes: 162

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drylo
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby drylo » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:30 am

dukey wrote:
rad law wrote:
dukey wrote: however, going to Vandy will really limit your ability to go NYC and many other locations.


Not as much as you'd think; it's the 2nd most popular location for Vandy grads after TN.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. Columbia gives you a much better chance at NYC biglaw in general and hence, a 6 figure salary. Columbia also gives you a better shot at better firms, which have better exit options than what you'd get at Vandy.

Grads @ Vandy can prolly go to NYC, but would likely access < prestigious, < $ jobs.


So much to say about this post. But I'll make it short: (1) OP explicitly said that he/she did not care about prestige for prestige's sake; (2) OP doesn't want to work n NYC; (3) Columbia grads don't get a secret bonus for having gone to Columbia, so NYC biglaw salary is the same whether you went to Vandy or Columbia.

duckmoney wrote:Columbia is worth sticker here. The money at Vandy is tempting, but if you want to work in the South and have ties there then if you go to Columbia you will have your pick of the best firms there. From Vandy you will be competing against everyone else from Vandy / Emory / Schools in the home market as well as Duke and UVA grads who will outshine you just based on their name.

Columbia will set you apart. You will be able to repay the debt.


There may be some truth to this, but it is far from a blanket truth. First of all, it depends on what firm/market you are targeting. Second, you will still have to do well at Columbia to get those jobs (although perhaps a little less well). Third, while OP might be able to get the job he wants from Columbia, he also might be able to get it from Vandy (for less money). Your answer seems to assume that a Columbia grad will automatically cakewalk into a job in his market ("you will have your pick of the best firms there"). I'm going to stop short of what I want to say to that, but I'd like to know why you are making that assumption.

FiveSermon
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:34 am

Sure, he COULD get the same job from Vandy having spent less $. But the question is about odds. I think we can all agree Columbia gives him much better odds.

The question is whether the better odds are worth 100k. I tend to think it is but it's personal preference.

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drylo
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby drylo » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:42 am

FiveSermon wrote:Sure, he COULD get the same job from Vandy having spent less $. But the question is about odds. I think we can all agree Columbia gives him much better odds.

The question is whether the better odds are worth 100k. I tend to think it is but it's personal preference.


I don't disagree with this. (I struck part of that because I am expressing no opinion about that.)

duckmoney
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby duckmoney » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:50 am

drylo wrote:
dukey wrote:
rad law wrote:
dukey wrote: however, going to Vandy will really limit your ability to go NYC and many other locations.


Not as much as you'd think; it's the 2nd most popular location for Vandy grads after TN.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. Columbia gives you a much better chance at NYC biglaw in general and hence, a 6 figure salary. Columbia also gives you a better shot at better firms, which have better exit options than what you'd get at Vandy.

Grads @ Vandy can prolly go to NYC, but would likely access < prestigious, < $ jobs.


So much to say about this post. But I'll make it short: (1) OP explicitly said that he/she did not care about prestige for prestige's sake; (2) OP doesn't want to work n NYC; (3) Columbia grads don't get a secret bonus for having gone to Columbia, so NYC biglaw salary is the same whether you went to Vandy or Columbia.

duckmoney wrote:Columbia is worth sticker here. The money at Vandy is tempting, but if you want to work in the South and have ties there then if you go to Columbia you will have your pick of the best firms there. From Vandy you will be competing against everyone else from Vandy / Emory / Schools in the home market as well as Duke and UVA grads who will outshine you just based on their name.

Columbia will set you apart. You will be able to repay the debt.


There may be some truth to this, but it is far from a blanket truth. First of all, it depends on what firm/market you are targeting. Second, you will still have to do well at Columbia to get those jobs (although perhaps a little less well). Third, while OP might be able to get the job he wants from Columbia, he also might be able to get it from Vandy (for less money). Your answer seems to assume that a Columbia grad will automatically cakewalk into a job in his market ("you will have your pick of the best firms there"). I'm going to stop short of what I want to say to that, but I'd like to know why you are making that assumption.


I'm making that assumption based on hiring partners I've talked to. Southern firms are just as much prestige whores as in NYC or any other market, they just don't have that many T6 grads to choose from. And many firms (depending on the size) don't have any Columbia grads at all, but would love to tell their clients that their lawyers come from schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, UVA, and Columbia. They're willing to go much deeper into the class at these top schools than at a school like Vandy.

Granted, you can certainly get there from Vandy, but you'll need much better grades than you would at Columbia.

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drylo
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby drylo » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:01 pm

duckmoney wrote:I'm making that assumption based on hiring partners I've talked to. Southern firms are just as much prestige whores as in NYC or any other market, they just don't have that many T6 grads to choose from. And many firms (depending on the size) don't have any Columbia grads at all, but would love to tell their clients that their lawyers come from schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, UVA, and Columbia. They're willing to go much deeper into the class at these top schools than at a school like Vandy.

Granted, you can certainly get there from Vandy, but you'll need much better grades than you would at Columbia.


In the interest of transparency, what firms have you talked to hiring partners at?

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lastch2
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby lastch2 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:59 pm

drylo wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I'm making that assumption based on hiring partners I've talked to. Southern firms are just as much prestige whores as in NYC or any other market, they just don't have that many T6 grads to choose from. And many firms (depending on the size) don't have any Columbia grads at all, but would love to tell their clients that their lawyers come from schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, UVA, and Columbia. They're willing to go much deeper into the class at these top schools than at a school like Vandy.

Granted, you can certainly get there from Vandy, but you'll need much better grades than you would at Columbia.


In the interest of transparency, what firms have you talked to hiring partners at?


i would like to know this as well :wink:
also, i'm a girl. just for future reference

dukey
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby dukey » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:04 pm

lastch2 wrote:
drylo wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I'm making that assumption based on hiring partners I've talked to. Southern firms are just as much prestige whores as in NYC or any other market, they just don't have that many T6 grads to choose from. And many firms (depending on the size) don't have any Columbia grads at all, but would love to tell their clients that their lawyers come from schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, UVA, and Columbia. They're willing to go much deeper into the class at these top schools than at a school like Vandy.

Granted, you can certainly get there from Vandy, but you'll need much better grades than you would at Columbia.


In the interest of transparency, what firms have you talked to hiring partners at?


i would like to know this as well :wink:
also, i'm a girl. just for future reference


who's the guy in your picture?

Emma1
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Emma1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm

Wow, I think you and your husband need to decide this. Personally I can't imagine starting out in law school married but people do it, so good luck. You will have enormous debt for many years if you go to Columbia. If you were single then maybe you might want to assume this risk, but married is a different matter. How does this debt impact your plans for a life together. It certainly will put stress in your relationship. I would go with Vandy which is still ranked well and not go with crushing debt. You will get a great job anyway.

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Grizz
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:10 pm

Emma1 wrote:Wow, I think you and your husband need to decide this. Personally I can't imagine starting out in law school married but people do it, so good luck. You will have enormous debt for many years if you go to Columbia. If you were single then maybe you might want to assume this risk, but married is a different matter. How does this debt impact your plans for a life together. It certainly will put stress in your relationship. I would go with Vandy which is still ranked well and not go with crushing debt. You will get a great job anyway.


Maybe, maybe not.

Emma1
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Emma1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:28 pm

Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.

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Grizz
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:31 pm

Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.


Because he made it into Columbia? Let's not get carried away here.

Emma1
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Emma1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:15 pm

rad law wrote:
Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.


Because he made it into Columbia? Let's not get carried away here.


Vandy 1L wisdom?:)

duckmoney
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby duckmoney » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:17 pm

drylo wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I'm making that assumption based on hiring partners I've talked to. Southern firms are just as much prestige whores as in NYC or any other market, they just don't have that many T6 grads to choose from. And many firms (depending on the size) don't have any Columbia grads at all, but would love to tell their clients that their lawyers come from schools like Vanderbilt, Duke, UVA, and Columbia. They're willing to go much deeper into the class at these top schools than at a school like Vandy.

Granted, you can certainly get there from Vandy, but you'll need much better grades than you would at Columbia.


In the interest of transparency, what firms have you talked to hiring partners at?


I emailed 6 hiring partners at major firms in a secondary market in Florida. I'm in a nearly identical situation as OP choosing between Vandy, Duke, and Chicago. They all told me the same thing- that Duke and Chicago are fantastic schools and since I have ties to the region I have a great shot at a job there from either school. I'm probably going to Chicago because of the better clerkship opportunities and more national reach if I decide I want a different market.

dukey
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby dukey » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:19 pm

rad law wrote:
Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.


Because he made it into Columbia? Let's not get carried away here.


+1..lol

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LettuceBeefRealTea
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby LettuceBeefRealTea » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:29 pm

from your description, i would go vandy.
columbia is a really cool school. i also had a post about how the next couple years are some of the best to take on large amounts of debt due to the economy.

you're basically married (my condolences). you want to be in the south. your ties are in the south. you don't care about prestige.
i think the being married part is pretty important. moving and living in new york might be a huge strain. there is a slight possibility of it being a memorable bonding experience, but that is pretty idealized picture of a new marriage in new york with one person in law school.

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Grizz
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:09 pm

Emma1 wrote:
rad law wrote:
Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.


Because he made it into Columbia? Let's not get carried away here.


Vandy 1L wisdom?:)


Common sense.

Emma1
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Emma1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:18 pm

rad law wrote:
Emma1 wrote:
rad law wrote:
Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.


Because he made it into Columbia? Let's not get carried away here.


Vandy 1L wisdom?:)


Common sense.


.....from a Vandy 1L

jeremysen
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby jeremysen » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:33 pm

Emma1 wrote:.....from a Vandy 1L


No. Emma, this is common sense.

Hopefully I can make a point with this: rad law goes to Vandy, and where do you attend?

Emma1
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Emma1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:48 pm

jeremysen wrote:
Emma1 wrote:.....from a Vandy 1L


No. Emma, this is common sense.

Hopefully I can make a point with this: rad law goes to Vandy, and where do you attend?


Lighten up! I was kidding RAD that he was a Vandy 1L in relationship to his comment about Vandy top of the class. What is your point or involvement in this thread?

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Grizz
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Grizz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:59 pm

Emma1 wrote:
jeremysen wrote:
Emma1 wrote:.....from a Vandy 1L


No. Emma, this is common sense.

Hopefully I can make a point with this: rad law goes to Vandy, and where do you attend?


Lighten up! I was kidding RAD that he was a Vandy 1L in relationship to his comment about Vandy top of the class. What is your point or involvement in this thread?


Now I'm confused haha

jeremysen
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby jeremysen » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:19 pm

Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.

Jus pointing out what rad was pointing out? I didnt see anything here besides your firm opinion...so I thought it was ludicrous.

You should know...it's my job to correct ludicrous statements.

logistikon
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby logistikon » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:30 am

i gotta be honest i dont even think this is close. what i hear from people on the other end of the law school gauntlet (3L's graduating form law schools and lawyers) is that 0L's are in total denial about the job market and that you should go to the best school possible ITE. perhaps CLS sticker vs. Michigan $ is a different question but CLS vs. Vandy? I haven't looked at the stats but I am willing to bet that over half of vandy does not graduate and make a 6 figure salary let alone the biglaw 160k.

refusetolose
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby refusetolose » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:41 am

Emma1 wrote:Vandy does very well especially in the south and OP most likely has a great shot at top of the class.

I thought Vandy doesn't rank its students?

Emma1
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Emma1 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:55 pm

Don't think that is the point of the question posed by OP but maybe a Vandy student can answer that.To my knowledge they don't rank but sometimes schools that dont rank still give out statistics on the class where educators or on this case employers can figure it out. They can also see your grades. I dont know what Vandy does in particular. I think someone who is bright enough to get into Columbia can do well at Vandy if they put the hours in. This wasn't meant a put down to Vandy. I was just there and really liked the school.

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Grizz
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Re: Columbia vs Vandy ($)

Postby Grizz » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:42 pm

Emma1 wrote:Don't think that is the point of the question posed by OP but maybe a Vandy student can answer that.To my knowledge they don't rank but sometimes schools that dont rank still give out statistics on the class where educators or on this case employers can figure it out. They can also see your grades. I dont know what Vandy does in particular. I think someone who is bright enough to get into Columbia can do well at Vandy if they put the hours in. This wasn't meant a put down to Vandy. I was just there and really liked the school.


I know someone who got into Harvard who is ballin' out here. I know someone who got into Columbia who's doing okay. You can't really predict based on LSAT/GPA or "hard work." Everyone works hard. It's who writes a better exam (a skill no one teaches you) on the day that counts.

Vandy releases a top 20% cutoff, and although we don't know the median, you can do some math and figure it at about a 3.15-3.17 or so. From there you can sorta figure out where you are. Employers can too, since they know your GPA. But no, we don't rank.




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