NYU vs CLS (yet again)

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cold_logic
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NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby cold_logic » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:27 am

Okay, I know this is an oft-discussed topic on these boards, but we don't need to rehash the stock TLS responses. Mostly I want to make this thread for people who just attended both ASWs and are faced with making the decision right now. What were your impressions of each? What are you going to do?

For my part, I was hoping I'd hate Columbia, but actually really liked it. So I have no idea what I'm going to do.

Thoughts?

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Hobbes89
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby Hobbes89 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:49 am

I came in thinking I was going to take Columbia, but after attending both ASWs I'm back to completely undecided. NYU was very impressive.

dkt4
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby dkt4 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:22 pm

i went into it thinking that i was only seriously going to consider columbia....NYU got a bump this weekend for me, though. i thought the admitted student group was much more dynamic at NYU, while Columbia's faculty was the most impressive part of CLS.

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ahduth
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby ahduth » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:26 pm

Ehh...

I wouldn't give my opinion much weight, considering I was leaning NYU in the first place anyhow. But Columbia kinda phoned it in. I was ready to leave if another person told me "the Columbia name will open doors for you." And I realize Marty Lipton won't be teaching any of my classes, but that corporate governance panel beat the pants off anything CLS put in front of us.

cold_logic
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby cold_logic » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:38 pm

If we're gonna talk panels, I was pretty impressed by Columbia's "Contemporary Legal Issues" panel, and especially the post-9/11 detention talk. Not that those are necessarily indicative of the school's quality...

Also, I sometimes felt that the NYU students had a bit of an inferiority complex. They all jumped at the chance to tell me how much more fun and exciting NYU is than Columbia, and how competitive they all are over there. My gut said "I think thou doth protest too much."

It's hard to tell with such a limited sample size...

Kaitlyn
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby Kaitlyn » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:59 pm

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Last edited by Kaitlyn on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ahduth
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby ahduth » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:09 pm

cold_logic wrote:If we're gonna talk panels, I was pretty impressed by Columbia's "Contemporary Legal Issues" panel, and especially the post-9/11 detention talk. Not that those are necessarily indicative of the school's quality...

Also, I sometimes felt that the NYU students had a bit of an inferiority complex. They all jumped at the chance to tell me how much more fun and exciting NYU is than Columbia, and how competitive they all are over there. My gut said "I think thou doth protest too much."

It's hard to tell with such a limited sample size...


Yeah, Contemporary Legal Issues should have been like two hours long. It was the best highlighting of their opportunities I saw. I had to leave before the 9/11 thing.

I didn't get the inferiority complex with any of the students I talked to. At each school, they'd obviously selected that school, and talked it up. There was one 3L at Columbia who said he'd have gone to NYU, but his parents wouldn't help pay unless he went to Columbia. All the students I talked to echoed basically the same theme however - there isn't a "wrong" answer to this, they're both great schools.

dkt4
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby dkt4 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:36 pm

ahduth wrote:Ehh...

I wouldn't give my opinion much weight, considering I was leaning NYU in the first place anyhow. But Columbia kinda phoned it in. I was ready to leave if another person told me "the Columbia name will open doors for you." And I realize Marty Lipton won't be teaching any of my classes, but that corporate governance panel beat the pants off anything CLS put in front of us.


i thought lipton was great, as were the judges at the panel that afternoon. i felt like nyu kept its faculty hidden, though -- they weren't a huge part of the admitted students day imo.

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thunderflesh
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby thunderflesh » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:31 am

Overall, I had a better experience at CLS, but I'm probably biased, since I did my undergrad at NYU, and am kind of ready for a change of pace.

What's confusing to me is that I met a few people at NYU's ASW who had a negative experience at Columbia. Since I had a very positive one, I'm trying to figure out why they left with such a different impression. All of the current and prospective students I met at CLS were really nice, intelligent, and interesting!

cold_logic wrote:Also, I sometimes felt that the NYU students had a bit of an inferiority complex. They all jumped at the chance to tell me how much more fun and exciting NYU is than Columbia, and how competitive they all are over there. My gut said "I think thou doth protest too much."


I definitely felt this too. Nary an hour went by without a faculty member, administrator or current student shitting on Columbia, and that actually rubbed me the wrong way a little bit (CLS gave me the impression that they have nothing but respect for peer schools).

It is worrying to me that apparently ten full time faculty have left CLS to go to NYU in the last few years, however.

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thecilent
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby thecilent » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:34 am

thunderflesh wrote: It is worrying to me that apparently ten full time faculty have left CLS to go to NYU in the last few years, however.

Yeah Dean Ricky seems to be legit

bhan87
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby bhan87 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:49 am

thunderflesh wrote:Overall, I had a better experience at CLS, but I'm probably biased, since I did my undergrad at NYU, and am kind of ready for a change of pace.

What's confusing to me is that I met a few people at NYU's ASW who had a negative experience at Columbia. Since I had a very positive one, I'm trying to figure out why they left with such a different impression. All of the current and prospective students I met at CLS were really nice, intelligent, and interesting!

cold_logic wrote:Also, I sometimes felt that the NYU students had a bit of an inferiority complex. They all jumped at the chance to tell me how much more fun and exciting NYU is than Columbia, and how competitive they all are over there. My gut said "I think thou doth protest too much."


I definitely felt this too. Nary an hour went by without a faculty member, administrator or current student shitting on Columbia, and that actually rubbed me the wrong way a little bit (CLS gave me the impression that they have nothing but respect for peer schools).

It is worrying to me that apparently ten full time faculty have left CLS to go to NYU in the last few years, however.


The shitting on Columbia was definitely not subtle. For instance, every other scene of the show put on by Law Revue would call Columbia a hellhole and one entire muscial piece was dedicated to saying "F#!K Chicago"

I'm not too worried about the faculty shuffling because apparantly Columbia is stealing away faculty from Harvard / Yale

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:13 am

cold_logic wrote:If we're gonna talk panels, I was pretty impressed by Columbia's "Contemporary Legal Issues" panel, and especially the post-9/11 detention talk. Not that those are necessarily indicative of the school's quality...

Also, I sometimes felt that the NYU students had a bit of an inferiority complex. They all jumped at the chance to tell me how much more fun and exciting NYU is than Columbia, and how competitive they all are over there. My gut said "I think thou doth protest too much."

It's hard to tell with such a limited sample size...

NYU 1L here - I had the exact same experience at ASW last year, and it was definitely worrying. But I think a lot of it might be because the administration feels that admitted students will come to ASW already swayed by the difference in name recognition, and that they will need to be convinced that NYU is just as good. Within the actual student body, the "omg just as good!" stuff is not really present like it was at ASW. People do sometimes joke about CLS being more competitive, but from people who have friends there, it sounds like that might have at least a grain of truth to it. But I think ASW magnifies that stuff a lot.

spondee
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby spondee » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:27 am

bhan87 wrote:The shitting on Columbia was definitely not subtle. For instance, every other scene of the show put on by Law Revue would call Columbia a hellhole and one entire muscial piece was dedicated to saying "F#!K Chicago"


C'mon, Law Revue's a joke. Parody, satire, all that. It'd be foolish to read too much into it.

bhan87
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby bhan87 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:05 pm

spondee wrote:
bhan87 wrote:The shitting on Columbia was definitely not subtle. For instance, every other scene of the show put on by Law Revue would call Columbia a hellhole and one entire muscial piece was dedicated to saying "F#!K Chicago"


C'mon, Law Revue's a joke. Parody, satire, all that. It'd be foolish to read too much into it.


Regardless, number of times I heard someone at Columbia mention NYU: 0 (except when an attendee specifically asked about NYU, to which the response was always "Can't personally speak about it, but both are great choices"). Number of times I heard someone at NYU mention Columbia: just about every hour, including the Dean's opening remarks that included a section on Columbia faculty that left Columbia for NYU.

The insecurity at NYU was really obvious.

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Ship87
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby Ship87 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:36 pm

I wasn't able to attend the NYU ASW but I attended the CLS one. I have to make a choice tomorrow because of the NYU Dean's award deadline. For me it will come down to money. I have to admit that I am swayed more by the Columbia name, but after talking to several lawyers its obvious that they hold both schools in high regard. Among friends though, people were much more impressed I got into Columbia. I don't think that kind of prestige is entirely meaningless. People tend to hold you in a higher regard after hearing about it. Please don't comment back about prestige whoring or anything like that because we all know that part of the appeal of going to any great school, apart from the first rate education, is the fact that it forms the impression in other people's minds that you're somehow smarter and more capable.

But for me, that "impression" isn't worth an extra $65k of debt. Plus, since I'll be living in NYC no matter what, I think the lay prestige differences between the schools are much smaller in the community than they would be in an area outside of New York.

I do hope CLS matches NYU's award tho, so no decision here yet.

spondee
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby spondee » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:37 pm

bhan87 wrote:Regardless, number of times I heard someone at Columbia mention NYU: 0 (except when an attendee specifically asked about NYU, to which the response was always "Can't personally speak about it, but both are great choices"). Number of times I heard someone at NYU mention Columbia: just about every hour, including the Dean's opening remarks that included a section on Columbia faculty that left Columbia for NYU.

The insecurity at NYU was really obvious.


Those examples are more credited. It's too bad you kept getting that. But maybe the comparison isn't fair. How many times have you seen a thread on here asking whether CLS belonged in CCN? NYU's still a bit of an underdog.

Also, if faculty were doing this too, it wasn't insecurity (not from them). Most of them can teach at either school. Hell, many of them have standing offers from Harvard. So when the faculty are saying that, it's not insecurity; it's calculated toward some end. My guess is that they know how easily 0Ls are swayed by brand names. That's why CLS reinforces a story about how many doors the brand opens. What NYU is trying to do is reinforce how strong it's rep has become -- just twenty years ago it was not a peer school and would not have been stealing faculty from CLS. Many of the same leaders that have helped NYU become a very top school are still there and still making changes to continue strengthening it's reputation, which can be very exciting. Or can be dismissed as insecurity.

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birdlaw117
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby birdlaw117 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:46 pm

Regarding the "Columbia Bashing" at NYU... I attended the first ASW at NYU and never heard a single negative thing about Columbia. I did hear a lot of positives (it's a great option, you can't go wrong either way, etc.). I really think some people go to NYU expecting to hear Columbia Bashing, so they try to hear it. You really shouldn't be basing your opinion of the student body's attitude about peer schools off of a satirical production.

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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby vicuna » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:51 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:I attended the first ASW at NYU and never heard a single negative thing about Columbia. I did hear a lot of positives (it's a great option, you can't go wrong either way, etc.).


+1

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thecilent
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby thecilent » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:53 pm

Lol @ anyone thinking people actually care about cls at nyu. It just doesn't even matter. It all comes down to first year grades no matter which school you're at.

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piccolittle
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby piccolittle » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:53 pm

spondee wrote:Those examples are more credited. It's too bad you kept getting that. But maybe the comparison isn't fair. How many times have you seen a thread on here asking whether CLS belonged in CCN? NYU's still a bit of an underdog.

...What NYU is trying to do is reinforce how strong it's rep has become -- just twenty years ago it was not a peer school and would not have been stealing faculty from CLS.


I don't know why people keep saying this/how this can be true given that NYU has been ranked higher than CLS at points in the last 20 years. I know it's not all about US News but I would be interested to know by what measure people would have considered NYU inferior in the past if not reflected in the rankings.

CLS-bound 0L here, so no NYU bias at all.

edited for incorrect info.

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Non-Chalant1
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby Non-Chalant1 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:08 pm

piccolittle wrote:
spondee wrote:Those examples are more credited. It's too bad you kept getting that. But maybe the comparison isn't fair. How many times have you seen a thread on here asking whether CLS belonged in CCN? NYU's still a bit of an underdog.

...What NYU is trying to do is reinforce how strong it's rep has become -- just twenty years ago it was not a peer school and would not have been stealing faculty from CLS.


I don't know why people keep saying this/how this can be true given that NYU has been ranked higher than CLS at points in the last 20 years. I know it's not all about US News but I would be interested to know by what measure people would have considered NYU inferior in the past if not reflected in the rankings.

CLS-bound 0L here, so no NYU bias at all.

edited for incorrect info.

Lay prestige, Columbia is still Columbia. It's one of those one word names or simple acronyms that everyone immediately recognizes and associates with elite. MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Yale...that kind of thing. I know I've had to rationalize to people why I considered (and still am considering) NYU over Columbia that didn't get it. With that said, I did also get a lot of Columbia bashing from NYU people and others said nothing about it all (no surprise I liked them more and they were more the type of NYU person I envisioned). I don't get why. I came into the law school process with NYU as the goal. Columbia or NYU....that debate will never end of TLS lol.

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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby bellamy » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:02 pm

piccolittle wrote:
spondee wrote:Those examples are more credited. It's too bad you kept getting that. But maybe the comparison isn't fair. How many times have you seen a thread on here asking whether CLS belonged in CCN? NYU's still a bit of an underdog.

...What NYU is trying to do is reinforce how strong it's rep has become -- just twenty years ago it was not a peer school and would not have been stealing faculty from CLS.


I don't know why people keep saying this/how this can be true given that NYU has been ranked higher than CLS at points in the last 20 years. I know it's not all about US News but I would be interested to know by what measure people would have considered NYU inferior in the past if not reflected in the rankings.

CLS-bound 0L here, so no NYU bias at all.

edited for incorrect info.

This perpetuates a widely held misconception. In the last 10 years NYU has been ranked higher than CLS (2008) just once. On one other occasion they were tied. Other than that CLS has ranked higher than NYU since the dawn of history. Incidently I like NYU

luckdragon
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby luckdragon » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:15 pm

CLS here, and I sort of envy NYU's location.

neonx
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby neonx » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:20 am

Pictures from both this weekend:

Columbia: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=152371
NYU: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=152370

somewhere
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Re: NYU vs CLS (yet again)

Postby somewhere » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:37 am

bhan87 wrote:Regardless, number of times I heard someone at Columbia mention NYU: 0 (except when an attendee specifically asked about NYU, to which the response was always "Can't personally speak about it, but both are great choices"). Number of times I heard someone at NYU mention Columbia: just about every hour, including the Dean's opening remarks that included a section on Columbia faculty that left Columbia for NYU.

The insecurity at NYU was really obvious.


This wasn't really my experience, as I thought most of the "Columbia bashing" was, like, current students who said they were accepted at both and chose NYU because it seemed like the people were happier, or because the PI opportunities were just so much better, or whatever. And usually because they were asked, or because the conversation quickly turned to all of the people who were just at Columbia's ASW the day before. I actually wonder how much this would be reversed if NYU's were Wed/Thurs and Columbia's Thurs/Fri. It really seemed like half (if not more) of the people at NYU were JUST AT Columbia, and talking about their impressions.

Also, I thought the Dean's comments were as much (well-deserved) bragging about his own success as dean as comments on NYU or other schools. He was talking about all the great faculty they've added since he's been dean, and all the great faculty they've poached from lots of other places (not just Columbia), and the fact that none have gone the other way. That's a big accomplishment for him, and I'd brag about it too in his position.




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