BU vs UT vs Hastings

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sushirob39
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BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby sushirob39 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:46 pm

Hey so I really need some helping choosing which school to go to. I'm a Californian and am partial to being able to work in California after law school. This isn't a set in stone adamant fact, but just something I would prefer. Debt isn't a huge issue for me right, but what it's worth, BU is giving me 45k over 3 years. I'm still waiting on potential money from Hastings and UT tho after I told them about competing scholarship offers I've been given.

If I want to work in CA, where do you guys recommend? Would UT or BU help me place relatively well in CA? Also, I still haven't heard from USC yet but if I get in (knock on wood), should that become my top choice?

I'm pretty sure I'll end up enjoying wherever I end up so career prospects are what's most important to me right now. Thanks!

tourdeforcex
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby tourdeforcex » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:27 pm

hmm unless hastings offers a lot of money this is really between Texas and BU w/ 45K

and that is a hard choice.

i would get as much information as to how well Texas places in CA. traditionally, the word has been the T14 are the major nationally transportable degrees while most of the rest of the schools simply place into regional markets. and now Texas has joined the ranks.

supposedly BU has decent connections in CA

in the end, my gut would say Texas. if they offer any money, i'd say go to Austin.

FiveSermon
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:48 pm

USC should be your top choice if you get in.

sushirob39
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby sushirob39 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:45 pm

I know this drum's been beaten, but does Texas' new rank give it that much more prestige now??

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Attorney
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby Attorney » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:56 pm

tourdeforcex wrote:the word has been the T14 are the major nationally transportable degrees while most of the rest of the schools simply place into regional markets. and now Texas has joined the ranks.

No it hasn't. Texas has T20 placement, not T13. Texas being tied with Georgetown made the top tier a "T13" which it always was anyway (based on placement). Excluding G'town instead of suddenly including Texas. Thinking that hiring partners are suddenly going to take twice as many Texas grads because of U.S. News is downright silly.

Overall, Texas places equally to BU. Thus, the $$ looks good at BU. However, I don't know that either places exceptionally well in CA. You really want USC for that.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby dakatz » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:00 pm

Attorney wrote:
tourdeforcex wrote:the word has been the T14 are the major nationally transportable degrees while most of the rest of the schools simply place into regional markets. and now Texas has joined the ranks.

No it hasn't. Texas has T20 placement, not T13. Texas being tied with Georgetown made the top tier a "T13" which is always was anyway (based on placement). Excluding G'town instead of suddenly including Texas. Thinking that hiring partners are suddenly going to take twice as many Texas grads because of U.S. News is downright silly.

Overall, Texas places equally to BU. Thus, the $$ looks good at BU. However, I don't know that either places exceptionally well in CA. You really want USC for that.


Attorney is absolutely right. Texas is the exact same school it was the day before the rankings came out. Its placement is the same, its portability is the same, its reputation is the same. Sure, it moved from 15 to 14. Shame that 23 year olds aren't the ones doing the hiring, since that would be the only case in which such a change actually makes a difference.

sashatheturk
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby sashatheturk » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:25 am

sushirob39 wrote:Hey so I really need some helping choosing which school to go to. I'm a Californian and am partial to being able to work in California after law school. This isn't a set in stone adamant fact, but just something I would prefer. Debt isn't a huge issue for me right, but what it's worth, BU is giving me 45k over 3 years. I'm still waiting on potential money from Hastings and UT tho after I told them about competing scholarship offers I've been given.

If I want to work in CA, where do you guys recommend? Would UT or BU help me place relatively well in CA? Also, I still haven't heard from USC yet but if I get in (knock on wood), should that become my top choice?

I'm pretty sure I'll end up enjoying wherever I end up so career prospects are what's most important to me right now. Thanks!


i strongly suggest you go on the web sites of some bigger firms like Gibson Dunn, Omelveny, Pillsbury, Jones Day and just look at what schools the associates came from and what office they're at. I highly doubt Gibson Dunn (highly ranked LA based firm) is recruiting out of UT or BU for the LA office if they're doing on campus recruiting out of those schools at all. Then look at UCLA and USC who arnt in the T-14 vs. Cornell and their numbers combined i guarantee at any cali firm will be at least 5 times higher. Dont get me wrong these are fine schools but if getting a job in cali is your main concern look closer at potential big law employer statistics than rankings because most of the recruiters ive had conversations with over the last few years seem to find them irrelevant. Harvard and Yale are always going to be Harvard and Yale and on the flip side if someone's a mid level attorney from a Pepperdine or Loyola they're going to send recruiters to those campus' no matter what they're ranked. More often than not youre going to find there isnt much guess work and you can go firm by firm on their web site and see what schools are being recruited to what office.

beaniew
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby beaniew » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:48 am

Hastings for CA all the way. BU is totally out of the question if you want CA. Only way you're getting CA biglaw out of BU is if you are like Top 5% +.

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BrianGriffintheDog
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:54 am

They're all regional schools. Hastings being a regional school in CA, it's probably better to go there if you want CA.

sushirob39
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby sushirob39 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:06 am

Hmm. Thanks for the advice. I feel my decision just got a lot harder cuz I thought the rankings of BU and UT being substantially higher than Hastings would matter. The ppl I've talked to from BU who work in CA told me that if I want CA, it's certainly feasible, since 10% of BU grads end up in CA, but that I'd probably have to do a little more work in terms of networking and such. But BU appeals to me cuz it would offer me a little more bit flexibility in case for whatever reason CA isn't my thing down the road.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:10 am

Don't go to BU if you want to work in Cali. A few people do it every year (same for pretty much all of the top 30 schools), but it is very difficult and an uphill battle. Davis, Irvine, Hastings, USC and UCLA should all be on your list of schools. UT isn't a bad option.

juliachild-ish
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby juliachild-ish » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:52 am

I think if you do reasonably well at UT, you would be fine to get back to California--and probably in a much better position than if you went to Hastings, honestly. I was just talking to a partner at Jones Day's LA office who said they recruit heavily at UT (for all their offices, but including LA) and have had very good experiences with their grads. He has been a hiring manager at several LA firms, so it's not just Jones Day. People have this idea that UT is a very regional school, and I think that's true if you're lower in the class, but if you talk to hiring partners at a lot of firms, they speak very highly of UT.

I would vote UT. At least that way you'll stand out. If you go to Hastings, you're competing against kids from all the other California schools (both UC and private), many of which are more highly ranked and more highly regarded.

sashatheturk
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby sashatheturk » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:25 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:I think if you do reasonably well at UT, you would be fine to get back to California--and probably in a much better position than if you went to Hastings, honestly. I was just talking to a partner at Jones Day's LA office who said they recruit heavily at UT (for all their offices, but including LA) and have had very good experiences with their grads. He has been a hiring manager at several LA firms, so it's not just Jones Day. People have this idea that UT is a very regional school, and I think that's true if you're lower in the class, but if you talk to hiring partners at a lot of firms, they speak very highly of UT.

I would vote UT. At least that way you'll stand out. If you go to Hastings, you're competing against kids from all the other California schools (both UC and private), many of which are more highly ranked and more highly regarded.



uh...what the hell are you talking about??? Jones day has 102 attorneys that came out of UT and only 2 of them in CA offices. Meanwhile they have 24 Hastings attorneys and 23 of the practice in CA.

People have that idea about UT because according to the empirical data on the website of just about every big law firm it is in fact a very regional school.

http://www.jonesday.com/_lawyers/Search.aspx

just take 30 seconds to look it up.

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drdolittle
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby drdolittle » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:16 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:I think if you do reasonably well at UT, you would be fine to get back to California--and probably in a much better position than if you went to Hastings, honestly. I was just talking to a partner at Jones Day's LA office who said they recruit heavily at UT (for all their offices, but including LA) and have had very good experiences with their grads. He has been a hiring manager at several LA firms, so it's not just Jones Day. People have this idea that UT is a very regional school, and I think that's true if you're lower in the class, but if you talk to hiring partners at a lot of firms, they speak very highly of UT.

I would vote UT. At least that way you'll stand out. If you go to Hastings, you're competing against kids from all the other California schools (both UC and private), many of which are more highly ranked and more highly regarded.

Someone out of UT is not only competing against grads from a bunch of higher ranked and better regarded schools for CA - Stanford/Cal and other top national schools ranked well above UT - but would also have to overcome regional bias favoring Hastings/Davis despite their inferior national rank. Not to mention UCLA and USC, which are basically equal to UT. Oh, and don't simply believe what a hiring partner says, believe what firms tend to do. A good place to start, as suggested above, is to look for UT grads at CA offices...

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tea_drinker
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:52 pm

sushirob39 wrote:Hey so I really need some helping choosing which school to go to. I'm a Californian and am partial to being able to work in California after law school. This isn't a set in stone adamant fact, but just something I would prefer. Debt isn't a huge issue for me right, but what it's worth, BU is giving me 45k over 3 years. I'm still waiting on potential money from Hastings and UT tho after I told them about competing scholarship offers I've been given.

If I want to work in CA, where do you guys recommend? Would UT or BU help me place relatively well in CA? Also, I still haven't heard from USC yet but if I get in (knock on wood), should that become my top choice?

I'm pretty sure I'll end up enjoying wherever I end up so career prospects are what's most important to me right now. Thanks!


What do you want to do? Big law or bust? Public interest? If you want CA big law, you will have to be at the top of your class at any of those places, so it matters very little (and b/c you already have CA ties). If you want PI, wait to see what you get from Hastings and UT in terms of $$$. If you get nothing from them, give BU with 45K a serious consideration.

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tea_drinker
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:56 pm

sashatheturk wrote:
juliachild-ish wrote:I think if you do reasonably well at UT, you would be fine to get back to California--and probably in a much better position than if you went to Hastings, honestly. I was just talking to a partner at Jones Day's LA office who said they recruit heavily at UT (for all their offices, but including LA) and have had very good experiences with their grads. He has been a hiring manager at several LA firms, so it's not just Jones Day. People have this idea that UT is a very regional school, and I think that's true if you're lower in the class, but if you talk to hiring partners at a lot of firms, they speak very highly of UT.

I would vote UT. At least that way you'll stand out. If you go to Hastings, you're competing against kids from all the other California schools (both UC and private), many of which are more highly ranked and more highly regarded.



uh...what the hell are you talking about??? Jones day has 102 attorneys that came out of UT and only 2 of them in CA offices. Meanwhile they have 24 Hastings attorneys and 23 of the practice in CA.

People have that idea about UT because according to the empirical data on the website of just about every big law firm it is in fact a very regional school.

http://www.jonesday.com/_lawyers/Search.aspx

just take 30 seconds to look it up.


I think self-selection bias is a contributive factor here. Although, I agree that firms in SF may look favorable upon UCH and/or UCD grads b/c they want to maintain relationships with the schools.

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thexfactor
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby thexfactor » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:06 pm

take UT. UT has better placement than the other 2 schools.

Worry about getting a job first. Not location.

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Cupidity
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby Cupidity » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:11 pm

BU>Hastings if it doesn't offer you money. If it matches BU, I'd stay for Cali.

juliachild-ish
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby juliachild-ish » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:36 am

sashatheturk wrote:
juliachild-ish wrote:I think if you do reasonably well at UT, you would be fine to get back to California--and probably in a much better position than if you went to Hastings, honestly. I was just talking to a partner at Jones Day's LA office who said they recruit heavily at UT (for all their offices, but including LA) and have had very good experiences with their grads. He has been a hiring manager at several LA firms, so it's not just Jones Day. People have this idea that UT is a very regional school, and I think that's true if you're lower in the class, but if you talk to hiring partners at a lot of firms, they speak very highly of UT.

I would vote UT. At least that way you'll stand out. If you go to Hastings, you're competing against kids from all the other California schools (both UC and private), many of which are more highly ranked and more highly regarded.



uh...what the hell are you talking about??? Jones day has 102 attorneys that came out of UT and only 2 of them in CA offices. Meanwhile they have 24 Hastings attorneys and 23 of the practice in CA.

People have that idea about UT because according to the empirical data on the website of just about every big law firm it is in fact a very regional school.

http://www.jonesday.com/_lawyers/Search.aspx

just take 30 seconds to look it up.


As someone suggested above, that may very well be due to self-selection. Just because UT grads don't actually end up in LA doesn't mean they're not desirable there and doesn't mean they couldn't go there if they chose.

Here is a direct quote from an email exchange I had with a partner at Jones Day, formerly a hiring partner at a couple different firms (who is a Northwestern grad, by the way, and therefore has no motivation to steer me towards UT): "UT is a great school -- we recruit from there heavily throughout the entire firm (and I personally have had very good success at UT when I have run hiring programs in LA)." Now, of course you want to take that with a grain of salt, since it's just one person's observation. But I thought it was a relevant observation to offer. And I have had similar conversations with hiring partners at several other firms in other cities.

michigan_man
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby michigan_man » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:49 am

This thread has some of the worst advice I've ever seen on TLS. If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't be dispensing advice to vulnerable pre-Ls.

Anyway...OP, you could work in CA from any of these schools. BU and UT are probably better than Hastings for job prospects in general, but you are going to have to hustle a little bit to get a job from these schools since career services isn't going to have much experience placing people in CA. But that's fine.

UT is not a national school because it is T-14. Georgetown is FAR MORE NATIONAL. All Texas moving to 14 does is show how meaningless the "T-14" is. The best schools are the same schools they were 30 years ago. Georgetown is included. The Ivies and Michigan and Virginia are included. Texas/UCLA/Vandy are not.

As for my advice, I would take another year off, do better on the LSAT and try again at USC, UCLA, UCI.

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Borhas
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Re: BU vs UT vs Hastings

Postby Borhas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:17 am

tea_drinker wrote:
sushirob39 wrote:Hey so I really need some helping choosing which school to go to. I'm a Californian and am partial to being able to work in California after law school. This isn't a set in stone adamant fact, but just something I would prefer. Debt isn't a huge issue for me right, but what it's worth, BU is giving me 45k over 3 years. I'm still waiting on potential money from Hastings and UT tho after I told them about competing scholarship offers I've been given.

If I want to work in CA, where do you guys recommend? Would UT or BU help me place relatively well in CA? Also, I still haven't heard from USC yet but if I get in (knock on wood), should that become my top choice?

I'm pretty sure I'll end up enjoying wherever I end up so career prospects are what's most important to me right now. Thanks!


What do you want to do? Big law or bust? Public interest? If you want CA big law, you will have to be at the top of your class at any of those places, so it matters very little (and b/c you already have CA ties). If you want PI, wait to see what you get from Hastings and UT in terms of $$$. If you get nothing from them, give BU with 45K a serious consideration.


If you want PI in CA go to UC Hastings... $$$ is a much less significant factor for someone going for PI than location, placement, and the school's LRAP. $$$ is much more important to those who want to go into profit based/private practice. (IBR loan forgiveness + LRAP)

If you want Big Law go to UT and be prepared to forget about CA or retake and try again for UCLA or USC




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