Would You Rather...

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which School / Legal Market Combo?

Kent for Chicago
12
21%
Rutgers for NYC
8
14%
Miami for South Florida
37
65%
 
Total votes: 57

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Justathought
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Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:04 pm

Try to break into the NYC, Chicago, or South Florida legal market? Given the following region appropriate schools:

Rutgers
Chicago Kent
Miami

Cost is not an issue, but my NY and Chicago area choices are the most cost effective in the region. That's why I've selected them. However, I'm particularly worried about Rutgers, because I want to work in private practice, and Rutgers seems so geared toward the public sector; I also want to try to avoid working in NJ. Still, its the closest to home, and better than a school like Brooklyn at sticker price.

Cast your vote and share your opinion. Keep in mind I am not focused on debt, but rather which school provides the best chance for entrance into a semi-respectable career in private practice. Right now I'm leaning toward Miami (hence the avatar), because its the third best school in Florida, generally well respected in South Florida, and surely faces a little less competition than Rutgers and Kent. The small size of the Florida market worries me. However, the crowded nature of the other two markets is equally concerning.

As for regional preference? I don't have one, except to say that Chicago is my least favorite city. I'll go wherever the odds of success are best.

Rutgers boasts the best employment numbers and highest median private practice salary, but only 40% of its graduates enter private practice. Many find work as judicial clerks or get involved in public interest work. Chicago Kent and Miami both place 60+% into private practice.


I realize these are not great schools, but they're the best I've got at the moment.


Waitlisted at Iowa, W&M, Cardozo, American, and Loyola-LA. Don't expect to get off any of them.


Got into Temple today. Feel pretty good about the price and prospects. Plus a family home in PA means I could possibly establish residency. Going to head there unless I get a very good offer from USD, which also rendered a decision today.

Thanks for all the help folks!
Last edited by Justathought on Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby gbpackerbacker » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:07 pm

Considering you have Miami for a whole state (in which it is, unlike rutgers, situated), how is this even a contest? In regards to the other two, I think Kent for Chicago > Rutgers for NYC, by a large margin.

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:10 pm

gbpackerbacker wrote:Considering you have Miami for a whole state (in which it is, unlike rutgers, situated), how is this even a contest? In regards to the other two, I think Kent for Chicago > Rutgers for NYC, by a large margin.


Thanks for the input. I'm inclined to agree. I will say that although Miami certainly gets some respect in the northern part of the state, that is clearly FSU and UF territory. So before casting your vote, keep in mind that my best opportunities would likely come from South Florida.

Edited the poll to be more region specific. Now South Florida.
Last edited by Justathought on Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fathergoose
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby fathergoose » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:10 pm

Miami ftw

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:15 pm

fathergoose wrote:Miami ftw


Thanks for the input fathergoose. Withdrew from SMU today. I just didn't want to do part-time. Really sad about it.

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introversional
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby introversional » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:16 pm

Image

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:20 pm

introversional wrote:Image


Lebron had the same options if I recall correctly. He probably should have gone to Chicago, the Bulls would be unstoppable now. Should I take this as a sign?

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esq
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby esq » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:20 pm

I'm kind of disapointed, becasue when I clicked on this post I was looking for "would you rather" options like:

Would you rather cut off your arm or go to Chicago Kent?

Would you rather gouge out your eyeballs or go to Rutgers?

Or woudl you rather amputate your toes or go to Miami?

So now that I've provided a real "would you rather" list, I can answer your question. I'd rather lose my bodyparts to be honest - short term pain would be much more preferable than the long term pain that comes from being put in the position of having massive debt and no way to pay it off. These schools are not good choices imo.
Last edited by esq on Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fathergoose
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby fathergoose » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:20 pm

Justathought wrote:Thanks for the input fathergoose. Withdrew from SMU today. I just didn't want to do part-time. Really sad about it.

Gotta do what you gotta do.

Miami has much better beaches than Dallas does

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introversional
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby introversional » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:22 pm

Justathought wrote:
introversional wrote:Image


Lebron had the same options if I recall correctly. He probably should have gone to Chicago, the Bulls would be unstoppable now. Should I take this as a sign?


Maybe! And, people would have still liked him..... Chicago FTW?

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:23 pm

esq wrote:I'm kind of disapointed, becasue when I clicked on this post I was looking for "would you rather" options like:

Would you rather cut off your arm or go to Chicago Kent?

Would you rather gouge out your eyeballs or go to Rutgers?

Or woudl you rather amputate your toes or go to Miami?

So now that I've provided a real "would you rather" list, I can answer your question. I'd rather lose my bodyparts to be honest - short term pain would be much more preferable than the long term pain that comes from being put in the position of having massive debt and no way to pay it off. These schools are not good choices imo.


I've saved quite a bit from previous work. These schools vary in price, but I will still be debt free upon graduation. I'm simply looking for the best choice when paired with a corresponding market.

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gbpackerbacker
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby gbpackerbacker » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:28 pm

Justathought wrote:
gbpackerbacker wrote:Considering you have Miami for a whole state (in which it is, unlike rutgers, situated), how is this even a contest? In regards to the other two, I think Kent for Chicago > Rutgers for NYC, by a large margin.


Thanks for the input. I'm inclined to agree. I will say that although Miami certainly gets some respect in the northern part of the state, that is clearly FSU and UF territory. So before casting your vote, keep in mind that my best opportunities would likely come from South Florida.

Edited the poll to be more region specific. Now South Florida.


Now I think this would be a toss up between Kent and Miami.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:33 pm

If Cost is truly not in the equation and you dont have any regional preference I feel like Kent may have slightly (and I do mean slightly) higher placement in Chicago than Miami does in Southern FL. Rutgers wouldnt be in the equation.

If it was up to me without regard to money I would easily go to Miami though, just based on quality of life.

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YaSvoboden
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby YaSvoboden » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:49 pm

Justathought wrote:
introversional wrote:Image


Lebron had the same options if I recall correctly. He probably should have gone to Chicago, the Bulls would be unstoppable now. Should I take this as a sign?


If you can somehow wait until June, I would base your decision on the playoffs. You would probably have to throw Northeastern into the mix though.

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:20 pm

Thanks for the feedback and hilarious Lebron pic. Any additional thoughts are welcome. Particularly from those with insight into recent trends in the Chicago and S. Florida legal markets. I think I have a pretty good handle on the situation here in NY.

JD2014
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby JD2014 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:02 pm

Rutgers boasts the best employment numbers and highest median private practice salary


As their career services will tell you, this is mainly a function of New Jersey's high income and cost of living as compared to the other 49 states. In other words, they're not actually banking this money. RU-N is a good school if you want government, public interest, or New Jersey firms. RU-N grads are in Newark, Morristown and Roseland, not NYC.

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:59 pm

JD2014 wrote:
Rutgers boasts the best employment numbers and highest median private practice salary


As their career services will tell you, this is mainly a function of New Jersey's high income and cost of living as compared to the other 49 states. In other words, they're not actually banking this money. RU-N is a good school if you want government, public interest, or New Jersey firms. RU-N grads are in Newark, Morristown and Roseland, not NYC.


I'm aware that elevated cost of living in the tri-state area, among other factors, contributes to Rutgers high median salary in private practice. However, given that most opportunities would likely come from the NJ area, I'm actually leaning more toward Brooklyn for NYC. The caveat is an extra 20,000+ in annual tuition for a school in an ultra competitive market. So with that said, I'm favoring Miami or Kent at the moment. Since I don't really think I would enjoy Chicago, I'm thinking Miami would be the way to go. The poll seems to share my opinion.

I have no qualms about this, as I think I'll be very happy living and working in South Florida.

barry
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby barry » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:08 pm

at kent you'll have to compete against JM, DePaul, LUC, ND, U of I, NU, U of C, U Mich, WUSTL kinda, random Big 10's like iowa

at miami your only competition will be UF, FSU, and some TTT's so less competition in a bigger state

i'll grant that Chi is a bigger legal market but it still is hurting pretty bad and you'll have stiffer competition in general, at miami you'll be closer to the top of the pecking order, so i'm gonna say Miami

JD2014
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby JD2014 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:25 am

Brooklyn and Kent both cost about $40,000 per year and put the top 10% of their classes into Biglaw. After that, they're competing with a lot of grads from better schools for scarce jobs. With a scholarship, it's risky. At sticker, which it sounds like you were offered, it's a suicide mission. I don't know anything about Miami's placement, but it can't be worse.

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:53 am

I received a scholarship to Kent, though its not significant enough to make me think its an inherently better option than Miami. Brooklyn would be at sticker, and their tuition is actually around 45,000 per year. That seems awfully steep to me. Still, none of these options are a "suicide" mission, as none would lead toward financial ruin. The question I'm debating is which school offers the best chance at a career in private practice. My background is in real estate and construction, so I'm interested in practicing in law related to those fields. Also interested in Tax law, and I've heard Miami has a good program. Of course I would likely need to pursue an Ll.M. for that, and would probably shoot for NYU, GT, or UF. Provided I did well in tax related classes.

BeachandRun23
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby BeachandRun23 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:08 pm

Miami without a doubt. All the other markets are extremely flooded and targeted by T14 grads. Florida has less good schools in it (at U miami you'd be at one of the best schools in florida) and your market isnt so overwhelmed with grads looking for jobs.

JD2014
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby JD2014 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:02 pm

Still, none of these options are a "suicide" mission, as none would lead toward financial ruin.


The short answer is that almost no school is worth sticker, especially not a T2 that is the fifth best school in its city.

The long answer is that if you go to Brooklyn at sticker, you will be $210,000 in debt on graduation, according to their COA figures. Only 71% of the class of 2009 bothered to report salary info, so you can assume a significant number are either un- or underemployed. Also, a large percentage of those that are employed work at firms with fewer than 50 attorneys making less than $75,000 per year. Maybe we have different definitions of financial ruin, but making slightly more than what a high school teacher makes while being almost a quarter of a million dollars in debt fits my definition. See:

http://www.brooklaw.edu/careers/employm ... alary.aspx

and

http://www.top-law-schools.com/brooklyn-law-school.html

Then again, you said cost is not an issue, and everyone is telling you to go to Miami anyway, so this is probably all moot.

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Justathought
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby Justathought » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:16 pm

JD2014 wrote:
Still, none of these options are a "suicide" mission, as none would lead toward financial ruin.


The short answer is that almost no school is worth sticker, especially not a T2 that is the fifth best school in its city.

The long answer is that if you go to Brooklyn at sticker, you will be $210,000 in debt on graduation, according to their COA figures. Only 71% of the class of 2009 bothered to report salary info, so you can assume a significant number are either un- or underemployed. Also, a large percentage of those that are employed work at firms with fewer than 50 attorneys making less than $75,000 per year. Maybe we have different definitions of financial ruin, but making slightly more than what a high school teacher makes while being almost a quarter of a million dollars in debt fits my definition. See:

http://www.brooklaw.edu/careers/employm ... alary.aspx

and

http://www.top-law-schools.com/brooklyn-law-school.html

Then again, you said cost is not an issue, and everyone is telling you to go to Miami anyway, so this is probably all moot.


I don't have to take out loans for law school. I've noted that in this thread. Yes, the price still stinks, but I want to be a lawyer and I will not be burdened by loans. If I come out of school with a lackluster salary, which I have to believe is ultimately more likely than not, from any of these schools, it won't be a big deal.

JD2014
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby JD2014 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:03 pm

I don't have to take out loans for law school. I've noted that in this thread.


Understood, as I noted in my reply when I said the financial info may be moot. But the fact that an unreasonable number of BLS grads are un- or underemployed is definitely worth noting given your desire to find desirable employment. If you go to BLS, you MUST be above median. I don't know if that's a risk you want to run, especially since the whole point of the thread is to compare your various options.

HeavenWood
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Re: Would You Rather...

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:06 pm

Rutgers for NYC is practically a pipe dream in this economy, but if you don't mind the (very real) possibility of working in North Jersey, it's probably your best option.




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