Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

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alexanderhamilton
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Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby alexanderhamilton » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:14 pm

Rutgers Camden 10k/y 3.5 GPA scholarship Lex de something scholar
Rutgers Newark 8k/y 3.0 GPA scholarship, Minority Student Program

In-state tuition.

I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. I want to practice in NJ or one of the close by states/major cities (PA, NY, Philly or NYC) I'm open to either school. Not interested in biglaw, looking for midlaw, smalllaw, fedgov, stategov, public interest, anything would do really.

Of the two schools which do you think offers better value for the money in terms of placement, prospects, OCI firms, and so forth? LSN seems to indicate that Newark places better and Newark has a lower scholarship stip, while Camden is pretty high, and if I lose it I will drop down to only a 5k scholly (assuming I maintain at least 3.3). I have till the 15th to decide.

Considering the two what would you suggest? :? :?:

ballpop
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby ballpop » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:17 pm

That is a tough decision. Do you really have NO preferences for north versus south Jersey?

From my (admittedly second hand info) it seems like Newark is more focused on firm work, Camden has that but also state gov focus

alexanderhamilton
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby alexanderhamilton » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:20 pm

Well I'm most familiar with Central and North Jersey since that's where I live now, and like all New Jerseyans in the northish part of our state I have a deep philosophical affinity with New York City for whatever reason more-so than Philadelphia, so I guess I do have a preference but I'm flexible so I'm open to either really, whatever gives me the better opportunity.

ballpop
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby ballpop » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:21 pm

On that weak affinity, I gotta say Newark. I grew up in Central/North Jersey, though, so I never really knew about Camden. It was always Newark v SHU

HeavenWood
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:28 pm

alexanderhamilton wrote:Well I'm most familiar with Central and North Jersey since that's where I live now, and like all New Jerseyans in the northish part of our state I have a deep philosophical affinity with New York City for whatever reason more-so than Philadelphia, so I guess I do have a preference but I'm flexible so I'm open to either really, whatever gives me the better opportunity.


That's because New Jersey is essentially a giant suburb--half New York's, half Philadelphia's. :wink:

Anti-Jersey trolling aside, this all comes down to regional preference. Getting New York or Philadelphia is certainly possible from either Rutgers campus (with Philadelphia being the easier grab), but in this economy, most of your employment prospects will come from in-state. What sounds better to you: working in greater Camden or greater Newark? I'm not as familiar with Rutgers Newark, but I know that a fair proportion of Rutgers Camden grads end up working in Cherry Hill satellite offices of Philly firms. There's also a high placement rate into state clerkships.

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bk1
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:33 pm

I'm not from NJ so all I know is that these schools seem to be similar ranked so probably have similar prospects.

I also know nothing of their GPA curves so I assume that the 3.5 is probably much harder to keep than the 3.0 so I say go Newark.

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Justathought
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby Justathought » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:37 pm

3.0 at Newark is about median. Not sure about 3.5 at Camden.

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Wholigan
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby Wholigan » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:18 pm

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Last edited by Wholigan on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jaydee2013
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby jaydee2013 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:22 pm

I'm a 1L at Camden. We have a huge public interest focus and placement record. And, if you've given any thought to clerking, Camden is by FAR the place to choose.

Since you have ties to north Jersey, you should expand your "jersey reach" by coming to Camden, thereby giving you connections in all parts of the state.

Also, while $2k additional isn't huge, it is still a positive something, and I'd imagine cost of living is a also bit cheaper here than Newark (someone can correct me on this, as I'm not familiar with Newark... just a guess).

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mrtoren
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby mrtoren » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:00 pm

Both are nearly the same, but I would lean toward Newark. The scholarship stipulations are lower, which is always a good thing. Newark also seems to place as many, if not more, grads into judicial clerkships (32%). Clerkships are a great way to develop connections that will lead to state/midlaw jobs. Newark also places about 6% directly into government work. Its your call, but Newark is my vote.

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Wholigan
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby Wholigan » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:39 pm

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Last edited by Wholigan on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alexanderhamilton
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby alexanderhamilton » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:55 pm

Hypothetically speaking if one were to be inclined to transfer to Fordham or some other school after 1L (I know, I know) would it be easier to transfer from RU-N or RU-C?

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Justathought
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby Justathought » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:17 pm

alexanderhamilton wrote:Hypothetically speaking if one were to be inclined to transfer to Fordham or some other school after 1L (I know, I know) would it be easier to transfer from RU-N or RU-C?


About the same. Seriously, they are the same school. Did you get the email for admitted Camden students the other day? I did too, and I never even applied. They have the same IT guys!

I guess the slightest edge goes to Newark for a transfer to NYU, Fordham, or Columbia. Just because Newark is considered a local NYC area school. Slight edge to Camden for a Penn transfer.

Again, they are almost exactly the same. Tiny edge to the local school.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:19 pm

OP, I'm PM'ing you.

0range
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby 0range » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:56 pm

Wholigan wrote:
Justathought wrote:3.0 at Newark is about median. Not sure about 3.5 at Camden.


25% cutoff this year was 3.43, upperclass grades are higher. Things might be changing regarding the curve and scholarship stips, also.


Wholigan wrote: No more than 2-3 people from each graduating class are going to get an Art III clerkship from either school.



3.43 is top 20%, from what those looking to transfer have told me.

At Dean's Law Day, the Dean said 10 people got Art III clerkships. Not great, but not bad either. Where do you get your info from, brother?

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:51 pm

0range wrote:
Wholigan wrote:
Justathought wrote:3.0 at Newark is about median. Not sure about 3.5 at Camden.


25% cutoff this year was 3.43, upperclass grades are higher. Things might be changing regarding the curve and scholarship stips, also.


Wholigan wrote: No more than 2-3 people from each graduating class are going to get an Art III clerkship from either school.



3.43 is top 20%, from what those looking to transfer have told me.

At Dean's Law Day, the Dean said 10 people got Art III clerkships. Not great, but not bad either. Where do you get your info from, brother?


Wholigan knows what he's talking about overall. Trust me :).

The 10 Article III clerks isn't surprising. Either way it's a fairly small number and it fluctuates. Most of the clerkships are state clerkships, and pay decently, and most people are hired at small/midsized firms from these clerkships (When I say midsized firms, I'm not talking about any of the NJ-BigLaw-equivalent firms, but they are fine jobs). Pretty sure the Prosecutor's offices and PD's also hire from the clerkships.

We don't have official rankings, just Honors designations each semester. So I'm not sure if 3.43 is actually top 20 or top 25%.

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Wholigan
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby Wholigan » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:52 pm

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Last edited by Wholigan on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:41 pm

Both of the cut-offs were lower last year (3.3 for Honors, 3.76 for High Honors). I don't know which prof skewed the curve, though. However, I think this was for two reasons. CivPro curved lower last year (to a 2.8-2.9) and K's curved higher (to a 3.3). Our curve was more standard (my classes were all 3.05-3.11), although I suspect the other Fall K's curved slightly higher.

There may be a "new curve" next year, but we haven't heard yet if it will be implemented. Newark's curve is standard and has been for a while (and is also slightly lower and will remain so).

alexanderhamilton
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby alexanderhamilton » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:20 am

Thanks for all the responses, at this point I've more or less decided between the two unless someone has a really compelling reason. I favor Rutgers-Newark for a combination of reasons:

1. The MSP which seems like a good networking thing and seems to provide some interesting opportunities and assistance. Someone mentioned that it entails more work, true but both Camden and Newark have the community service/internship/externship/clinic etc... requirement.
2. The cultural affinity towards New York pulls strongly for whatever reason.
3. The close by courts, close by New York, close by Trenton
4. The lower stiuplation and more reliable curve
5. It's cityish and I could so with some cityish living after dealing with the suburbs for most of my life.
6. Newark has Mayor Corey Booker who I'm a big fan of, and Newark is slightly safer than Camden and improving
7. North Jersey is a bastion of Democratic politics against the villainy of our remarkably "rotund" governor.

champ33
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby champ33 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:29 am

alexanderhamilton wrote:Thanks for all the responses, at this point I've more or less decided between the two unless someone has a really compelling reason. I favor Rutgers-Newark for a combination of reasons:

1. The MSP which seems like a good networking thing and seems to provide some interesting opportunities and assistance. Someone mentioned that it entails more work, true but both Camden and Newark have the community service/internship/externship/clinic etc... requirement.
2. The cultural affinity towards New York pulls strongly for whatever reason.
3. The close by courts, close by New York, close by Trenton
4. The lower stiuplation and more reliable curve
5. It's cityish and I could so with some cityish living after dealing with the suburbs for most of my life.
6. Newark has Mayor Corey Booker who I'm a big fan of, and Newark is slightly safer than Camden and improving
7. North Jersey is a bastion of Democratic politics against the villainy of our remarkably "rotund" governor.


Seems to me you are definitely making the right choice.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:49 pm

If you are doing msp it makes a ton of sense to go to Newark. Good luck!

0range
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Re: Rutgers Camden v. Rutgers Newark

Postby 0range » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:13 pm

Wholigan wrote:
0range wrote:3.43 is top 20%, from what those looking to transfer have told me.

At Dean's Law Day, the Dean said 10 people got Art III clerkships. Not great, but not bad either. Where do you get your info from, brother?


I was talking about the fall cutoffs. My understanding is that the 25% cutoff was lower last year, so maybe your stats are close. While there may be some speculation over whether the cutoff is top 20% or top 25%, I think there is strong data to suggest it is 25%. I don't have proof though.

For 2008, which is the most recently published public data, it appears RU-C had two Art. III clerks, and RU-N had one. I wanted to do DLD but I had too much schoolwork to catch up on. As keg pointed out, the figure can vary from year to year. If they did place 10, I'm surprised, but I guess I might have spoken in absolutes prematurely. However - did the dean actually say "Article III" clerks, or did he say "Federal" which some 0Ls might confuse with Art. III? There are a couple of bankruptcy judges in the area that like to hire Camden grads, as well as magistrate judges. While not bad gigs, those are not Article III and not the clerkships the T14 are gunning for by and large.



I don't remember if he said federal or Art. III. Might have been federal, which would explain the discrepancy. I do agree there is some confusion in the 20% - 25%. Thank your for your insights, friend.




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