Wake Forest or IUB?

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Wake Forest or Indiana?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:18 am

Wake Forest ($37,940 - $31,000 scholarship)
14
48%
Indiana (~$45,000 - $40,000 scholarship)
15
52%
 
Total votes: 29

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:59 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
MattThiessen wrote:
danquayle wrote:I'm not a native of either, but I've spent a considerable amount of time in both and can say Indianapolis and Charlotte are pretty similar cities. North Carolina is a nicer all around state, however. Though, again, pretty similar. It's hard to a Midwestern state that matches up better with a Southern state.

Truth.

Bloomington is certainly a much more "happening" place than Winston Salem. I would consider Bloomington almost exclusively a college town. I may be wrong, but it seems like the city revolves around IU. Wake, on the other hand, is just a small part of Winston Salem. I personally prefer Winston Salem, but I'm married and am pretty boring, so take that FWIW.


Compare Indiana to NC, not bloomington to winston-salem.

Lets try to think big picture- where you will likely spend the rest of your life, rather than little picture- where you will spend the next 3 years.

Also, IMO, if you have time to go do stuff in law school, your doing it wrong.


Lol... dude... hahaha. Good luck. Really. Good luck.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:02 pm

danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
danquayle wrote:
mf980 wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everybody!

I'm from the East Coast, so I think I have a slight bias toward the coast (I haven't lived anywhere else, so I don't really know if I actually prefer the region to another region).

So far, the thing I've learned most from this thread is that North Carolina people are more vocal on the internet than Indiana people!

:D


Well, if you're serious about the JD/MBA, then Indiana's MBA program is quite a bit better than Wake's. On the mobility thing, I don't get how Wake's JD is more mobile, as both are pretty regional schools and I said the Indiana MBA is stronger. Wake has much tougher in-state competition. It's third best behind Duke and UNC.

It really boils down to whether you want to be in the midwest or the south. But all things being equal, I'm struggling with seeing why everyone seems to think Wake is a better choice.

Last year 60-some percent of wake's grads found work outside of NC. I'm not sure of indiana's numbers.

As to tough instate competition, are you kidding me?

Duke=NY-DC

Wake>UNC
For (at least) the second year in a row, Wake>UNC in nlj250 #s. Its pretty heft this year too... 15-11%.
Don't know about this year's federal clerkship #s, but when I applied, wake had not only a hirer percent, but a hirer #, despite being something like 1/2 as large.

Also, if you look at the percent of super laywers in NC, it is completley dominated by Wake and UNC


Credibility = gone.


ME: Base choice on relevant, legitimate (outside sources) statistics.
YOU: Base choice on USNWR.

Who lacks credibility?

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:03 pm

danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
MattThiessen wrote:
danquayle wrote:I'm not a native of either, but I've spent a considerable amount of time in both and can say Indianapolis and Charlotte are pretty similar cities. North Carolina is a nicer all around state, however. Though, again, pretty similar. It's hard to a Midwestern state that matches up better with a Southern state.

Truth.

Bloomington is certainly a much more "happening" place than Winston Salem. I would consider Bloomington almost exclusively a college town. I may be wrong, but it seems like the city revolves around IU. Wake, on the other hand, is just a small part of Winston Salem. I personally prefer Winston Salem, but I'm married and am pretty boring, so take that FWIW.


Compare Indiana to NC, not bloomington to winston-salem.

Lets try to think big picture- where you will likely spend the rest of your life, rather than little picture- where you will spend the next 3 years.

Also, IMO, if you have time to go do stuff in law school, your doing it wrong.


Lol... dude... hahaha. Good luck. Really. Good luck.


Thanks, but I'm high up in my class, and already have nc gov't job lined up for my 1l summer, so I won't be needing your luck.

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MattThiessen
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby MattThiessen » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:05 pm

danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:Wake>UNC
For (at least) the second year in a row, Wake>UNC in nlj250 #s. Its pretty heft this year too... 15-11%.
Don't know about this year's federal clerkship #s, but when I applied, wake had not only a hirer percent, but a hirer #, despite being something like 1/2 as large.

Also, if you look at the percent of super laywers in NC, it is completley dominated by Wake and UNC


Credibility = gone.

Admittedly, Nocholasnickynic is a Wake student, but I don't think he is being completely ridiculous. An argument could be made either way, but some significant points are: Wake places better with NLJ 250. Additionally, UNC had a 65% employment rate at graduation compared to Wake's 80% employment at graduation in the most recent US News.

But anyway, back to the IUB vs. Wake discussion...

mf980
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby mf980 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:40 pm

danquayle wrote:Also OP, can you do a cost of attendance analysis. The scholarship amounts really don't mean much if we don't know the annual tuition, average cost of living, average rent, etc for each school/city.


I don't know what the tuition increases will look like (as I mentioned above, I think a 3% annual increase seems reasonable for Wake and a 5% annual increase seems reasonable for Indiana), but I currently have an estimate of about $25K for Wake and $22K for Indiana for tuition.

The other costs won't play a significant factor in my decision (my family is going to cover my rent and living expenses, and textbook costs should be pretty similar between the two).

I think the difference in debt really isn't significant.

And keep up the debate guys, I'm learning a lot!

:D

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:17 pm

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=51759&start=425

Here's a thread that started in 08 thats still going... should find some interesting stuff about wake in there.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:26 pm

I really have too much work to be posting... and I still need to give answers to the wake 2014 people.. but I thought I'd throw this out there.

Our Dean= awesome. Has breakfasts with groups of students every week for a long time... until he's eaten with all the students. And he actually cares what you think- listens to your opinions about what the school is doing well and/or what the school could be doing better.

Oh, and he won some award for being a pwntage dean. Dean who won it the previous year? Dean Kagan of harvard.

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:51 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
danquayle wrote:Well, if you're serious about the JD/MBA, then Indiana's MBA program is quite a bit better than Wake's. On the mobility thing, I don't get how Wake's JD is more mobile, as both are pretty regional schools and I said the Indiana MBA is stronger. Wake has much tougher in-state competition. It's third best behind Duke and UNC.

It really boils down to whether you want to be in the midwest or the south. But all things being equal, I'm struggling with seeing why everyone seems to think Wake is a better choice.

Last year 60-some percent of wake's grads found work outside of NC. I'm not sure of indiana's numbers.

As to tough instate competition, are you kidding me?

Duke=NY-DC

Wake>UNC
For (at least) the second year in a row, Wake>UNC in nlj250 #s. Its pretty heft this year too... 15-11%.
Don't know about this year's federal clerkship #s, but when I applied, wake had not only a hirer percent, but a hirer #, despite being something like 1/2 as large.

Also, if you look at the percent of super laywers in NC, it is completley dominated by Wake and UNC


Credibility = gone.


ME: Base choice on relevant, legitimate (outside sources) statistics.
YOU: Base choice on USNWR.

Who lacks credibility?


Where did I say this? Painfully obvious strawman arguments do not impress upon me the caliber of Wake's rhetorical teaching.

UNC got around 33 (15%) in Big Law. Wake got around 30 (20%). Wake's class size is significantly smaller, which has pros and cons. It doesn't amount to a huge difference, and neither is such a sure bet in this range that I'd let Big Law chances guide me.

I've said from the very beginning that I think personal preference should guide this decision, and I only think Indiana is the clear winner if he wants JD/MBA and is neutral on living in the Midwest versus the South. If he wants the South, obviously go to Wake. If he's truly neutral on location, then it comes down to program specifics, including MBA strength and Big Law placement. Wake, Indiana and UNC are all roughly peer schools and choosing one over the rest can be justified depending on circumstances. But to say starkly Wake > UNC is laughable. Especially when you consider the selectivity of UNC. I don't believe I mentioned "USNWR."

Cute try though, "gov't job 1L."

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:52 am

"UNC got around 33 (15%) in Big Law. Wake got around 30 (20%). Wake's class size is significantly smaller, which has pros and cons. It doesn't amount to a huge difference, and neither is such a sure bet in this range that I'd let Big Law chances guide me."


CHECK U FACTS:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

#30 Wake- 25/166- 15.06%

#41 UNC- 28/237- 11.81%

#50 W&L- 13/123- 10.57%

END LIST

For some reason, I could not find Indiana...


Cute try though, "OL"

P.S. Please don't insult wake again by implying that Indiana is a peer school with it.
Last edited by Nicholasnickynic on Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:55 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:CHECK U FACTS:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

#30 Wake- 25/166- 15.06%

#41 UNC- 28/237- 11.81%

#50 W&L- 13/123- 10.57%

END LIST

For some reason, I could not find Indiana...

Cute try though, "OL"

P.S. Please don't insult wake again by implying that Indiana is a peer school with it.


lol, dude. I'm not a 0L. You've made this thread stupid. Enjoy your 15% shot at Big Law. The ~5% greater probability makes an incredible difference and should determine your next three years of attendance.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:59 am

danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:CHECK U FACTS:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

#30 Wake- 25/166- 15.06%

#41 UNC- 28/237- 11.81%

#50 W&L- 13/123- 10.57%

END LIST

For some reason, I could not find Indiana...

Cute try though, "OL"

P.S. Please don't insult wake again by implying that Indiana is a peer school with it.


lol, dude. I'm not a 0L. You've made this thread stupid. Enjoy your 15% shot at Big Law. The ~5% greater probability makes an incredible difference and should determine your next three years of attendance.


Not a 0L... well then, Clearly erroneous research does not impress upon me the caliber of Indiana's research skills.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby YankeesFan » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:03 am

Danquayle sounds like a giant douche.

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:09 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:CHECK U FACTS:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

#30 Wake- 25/166- 15.06%

#41 UNC- 28/237- 11.81%

#50 W&L- 13/123- 10.57%

END LIST

For some reason, I could not find Indiana...

Cute try though, "OL"

P.S. Please don't insult wake again by implying that Indiana is a peer school with it.


lol, dude. I'm not a 0L. You've made this thread stupid. Enjoy your 15% shot at Big Law. The ~5% greater probability makes an incredible difference and should determine your next three years of attendance.


Not a 0L... well then, Clearly erroneous research does not impress upon me the caliber of Indiana's research skills.[/quote

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. WHAT RESEARCH DO YOU MENTION. I never, ever, ever said school A was better than school B. I didn't try to attack another respectable law school. I said Wake is, by most accounts (read: reputation scores), the third best law school in North Carolina. That's like saying Cornell is the third best law school in New York - it's no knock on Wake. (Even though Cornell places +50% in Big Law, I don't think anyone is disputing that). Meanwhile you're over here acting like Wake is hands down owning North Carolina and that Indiana is some kind of gutter trash.

A school that places 10% in Big Law is a peer with one that places 15%. Sorry to shatter your illusions of Big Law glory, but that added 5% still means you're not likely to get it. In general principal, to argue you should bet big on a proposal based on a 15% projected success rate is mind-blowingly stupid.

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:12 am

YankeesFan wrote:Danquayle sounds like a giant douche.


Jesus, just because I dared say UNC has a better reputation than Wake? I'm not the one calling other schools trash, in fact I've said a couple time's Wake is a good school, and OP's best option for the South. You Wake guys seem ridiculously insecure.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:12 am

UNC got around 33 (15%) in Big Law. Wake got around 30 (20%). Wake's class size is significantly smaller, which has pros and cons. It doesn't amount to a huge difference, and neither is such a sure bet in this range that I'd let Big Law chances guide me.


? Please explain to me how this is not

1: Research
2: Erroneous

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:16 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
UNC got around 33 (15%) in Big Law. Wake got around 30 (20%). Wake's class size is significantly smaller, which has pros and cons. It doesn't amount to a huge difference, and neither is such a sure bet in this range that I'd let Big Law chances guide me.


? Please explain to me how this is not

1: Research
2: Erroneous


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

I was using 2009, which is actually more favorable to Wake. Sorry that your BigLaw chances have so dramatically fallen according the validity of a list with one year's sample.
Last edited by danquayle on Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:17 am

danquayle wrote:
YankeesFan wrote:Danquayle sounds like a giant douche.


Jesus, just because I dared say UNC has a better reputation than Wake? I'm not the one calling other schools trash, in fact I've said a couple time's Wake is a good school, and OP's best option for the South. You Wake guys seem ridiculously insecure.


I said...
Wake>UNC

You said...
Credibility= gone

You're not trashing schools?

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danquayle
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby danquayle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:26 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
danquayle wrote:
YankeesFan wrote:Danquayle sounds like a giant douche.


Jesus, just because I dared say UNC has a better reputation than Wake? I'm not the one calling other schools trash, in fact I've said a couple time's Wake is a good school, and OP's best option for the South. You Wake guys seem ridiculously insecure.


I said...
Wake>UNC

You said...
Credibility= gone

You're not trashing schools?


Saying Wake is not CLEARLY a better school than UNC is not "trashing Wake." Like I said, that's like someone stating Cornell is clearly better than Columbia based on NLJ stats alone, and me saying that is an incredible response. That's not "trashing Cornell." That's stating a reality that you seem oh-oh-so-sensitive to. You're whining because I'm not like all of you fellow Wake trolls frothing at the mouth to defend Wake's lustrous Big Law hopes.

I think Wake is a good school. I think UNC and IU are good schools. None of them is what I would deem "great", and I think a reasonable person could choose either 1 of the three over the rest. That being said, everything I've ever seen says UNC has the best "reputation" of the three, especially in North Carolina. What that means, I don't know. Just like I don't know what 15% Big Law placement this year really means for the next year. All things that again, lead me to my earlier statement, that I think OP needs to consider many factors in considering which school to attend.

What, until I say WAKE OVER DUKE you're going to say I'm "trashing" Wake?

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YankeesFan
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby YankeesFan » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:27 am

danquayle wrote:What, until I say WAKE OVER DUKE you're going to say I'm "trashing" Wake?


Yep that sounds about right.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:40 am

danquayle wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
UNC got around 33 (15%) in Big Law. Wake got around 30 (20%). Wake's class size is significantly smaller, which has pros and cons. It doesn't amount to a huge difference, and neither is such a sure bet in this range that I'd let Big Law chances guide me.


? Please explain to me how this is not

1: Research
2: Erroneous


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

I was using 2009, which is actually more favorable to Wake. Sorry ...



I accept your apology.

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DubPoker
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby DubPoker » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:22 am

(I'm an 0L who has been admitted to Wake and is waiting on UNC)

In regards to the Wake vs UNC. I have a connection to a partner at a Larger NC firm. I asked the guy (Yale graduate, so probably pretty unbiased on the Wake vs UNC argument.) about the firms position on hiring from Wake or UNC. He said its basically the same and they pick from the top 10% at either school.

I get the feeling that when it comes to Law firm work Wake and UNC are pretty much the same. Although when it comes to Article III and state clerking I think UNC has the edge. Historically UNC places a few more clerks. When I was looking up state courts I realized all 7 state supreme court justices are UNC SoL graduates.

Nailjohnj
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Re: Wake Forest or IUB?

Postby Nailjohnj » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:04 pm

I love how the question started out as Wake or Indiana and degraded to a Wake vs. UNC slugfest. Gotta love it when people stay on point :D




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