UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

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MyManKanye
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UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby MyManKanye » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:28 pm

So my desperate hope is that I somehow get off the WL at Michigan, but in the meantime I'll need to put a deposit in at one of these schools. Tuition costs look something like, note that its just tuition not fees or COL:

UIUC: 8k/ year
WUSTL: 15k/year
ND: 25k/year
BU: 40k/yr (sticker)

I'm an undergrad at UIUC so I know the area. Its not my favorite, but not unlivable. I'm going into IP/patent law for what that's worth. I'm not averse to debt if it has long term upside. My main concern is limiting myself location wise. I'm not averse to any one major market, but I also would prefer not to be pinned down to one either.

From what I understand UIUC/WUSTL/ND are all more or less Chicago feeders and peers. I don't know what if anything has changed since the new rankings came out. BU seems to overperform its ranking, but at sticker I still think it might be too expensive for what it is.

Any input or experience here would be very helpful and appreciated. Thanks.

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bk1
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:38 pm

I think its a bit foolish to assume that Illinois, WUSTL, and ND are Chicago feeders. I would even hazard that most of the grads from these schools don't actually work in Chicago. While Chicago is their primary biglaw market, I doubt that the majority of the class is in the city itself.

I'd knock ND and BU off the list due to cost and realize that Illinois/WUSTL are going to generally place in the midwest. I feel like WUSTL is the better option here as it opens up another large midwestern city to you (assuming you can prove to them you'd like to stay) and that there may be a bit more mobility at the top of the class for WUSTL grads compared to Illinois grads (but there is a large chance that you don't end up top of the class).

I think you should visit WUSTL and Illinois and choose which one you prefer as they are peers and comparable in cost.

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romothesavior
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:39 pm

This should come down to UIUC or WUSTL. No way I'd pay sticker at BU, and no way I'd pay that much at ND if I had cheaper options at peers like UIUC and WUSTL.

At this point, I'd say UIUC because it is cheaper. Try negotiating scholarship money with WUSTL. If they don't work with you, then I'd say go to UIUC.

Have you visited these schools? You obviously know UIUC, but you should check out the law school if you haven't already. And try to come down to STL to see WUSTL. I turned down a full scholarship at UIUC for WUSTL because 1) I wanted to open up the St. Louis market (which will not be available if you have no ties and go to UIUC) and 2) because I was tired of the cornfields. So I don't think it would be insane to spend 20k more at WUSTL than UIUC. I just wouldn't do it because you think WUSTL is "better" because they are peers for most intents and purposes.
Last edited by romothesavior on Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:41 pm

Illinois.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby Rock Chalk » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:42 pm

.
Last edited by Rock Chalk on Thu May 24, 2012 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MyManKanye
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby MyManKanye » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:49 pm

A little more info:

I visited WUSTL, very nice campus and people, nicer than UIUC by quite a bit. However, St Louis wasn't really my cup of tea. I could see living there for school, but I have 0 interest in settling there after school. If the primary difference between WUSTL and UIUC is the St Louis market I'd take UIUC. If WUSTL really does have more mobility around the country than that's another story. WUSTL and UIUC have given me equal aid, its just UIUC has in-state for me. Given WUSTL has a deadline of April 1st, its probably too late to negotiate anymore aid.

I'm also curious if the amount/quality of the IP classes available would make any difference in employment? Oh, and just for kicks, would Michigan at sticker be worth it compared to WUSTL and UIUC at given prices? At present, I feel like the greater national reach makes it worth it to me, but TLS seems much more debt averse than I remember it even a few months ago, so I'm curious.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:51 pm

If you can stomach Illinois' location, then save your money since it offers both the lowest COA & lowest COL.

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romothesavior
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:54 pm

MyManKanye wrote:A little more info:

I visited WUSTL, very nice campus and people, nicer than UIUC by quite a bit. However, St Louis wasn't really my cup of tea. I could see living there for school, but I have 0 interest in settling there after school. If the primary difference between WUSTL and UIUC is the St Louis market I'd take UIUC. If WUSTL really does have more mobility around the country than that's another story. WUSTL and UIUC have given me equal aid, its just UIUC has in-state for me. Given WUSTL has a deadline of April 1st, its probably too late to negotiate anymore aid.

I'm also curious if the amount/quality of the IP classes available would make any difference in employment? Oh, and just for kicks, would Michigan at sticker be worth it compared to WUSTL and UIUC at given prices? At present, I feel like the greater national reach makes it worth it to me, but TLS seems much more debt averse than I remember it even a few months ago, so I'm curious.

I would take Michigan in a heartbeat. Or at least I would have a year ago, I dunno how I feel now. I love WUSTL.

And I dunno why WUSTL gets more credit than UIUC for portability. I really think they are the textbook definition of peers across the board.

re: COL... I have to disagree with CanadianWolf. Living in STL is pretty much the same as living in central Illinois in terms of cost. I would know, since I have lived there all my life. But STL is a hell of a lot more fun than U-C. Sorry to hear you didn't like it on your visit.

Again, try to negotiate money with WUSTL, but absent an increase in tuition, it sounds like UIUC is the best option.

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bk1
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:56 pm

My biggest hesitation with WUSTL is that 1/3 of their 2005 graduating class stayed in MO.

I think if you hustle your ass off you should be able to get a Chicago job (it may not be the one you want if your grades are bad/okay). If your grades are good you can definitely swing Chicago but you can't really guarantee that.

I think mobility at the tippy top of the class is reserved for places where you have ties and places that don't care (NYC/DC) but my feel that WUSTL would be better than Illinois for that is a subjective feeling that I can't really quantify. As for classes, I doubt those make a difference.

I think you should take Michigan at sticker. Especially with IP creds, I think it is a good deal for you.

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bk1
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:58 pm

romothesavior wrote:And I dunno why WUSTL gets more credit than UIUC for portability. I really think they are the textbook definition of peers across the board.


My feeling for this has to do with their broader midwest placement though that is more likely due to self selection. I would bet, if data existed, WUSTL grads are probably slightly more dispersed (but WUSTL probably also attracts a broader geographic student body than Illinois does).

MyManKanye
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Re: UIUC ($$$), WUSTL ($$), ND($), BU

Postby MyManKanye » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:05 pm

The numbers I ran based off the fact I know where to find cheap places in Champaign, and I'd be paying whatever I could find stumbling around in St. Louis, the cost difference came out to be something like 40k over the three years. Illinois has quoted ~33k in state tuition minus 25k aid and they will increase scholarship by the same amount as any tuition increases. WUSTL gave me 25k aid, but its flat across 3 years and COL will be a bit higher.

What is it that you love about WUSTL? When I was there it seemed like a very clean and modern campus, and the students and faculty I met were all friendly, but I feel like its to be expected at a visiting day. How much walking/driving/metro do you do in a standard day to get around? When I was there it was a Friday/Saturday and I was shocked by how few people I saw out and about in the supposed hot spots. Is it just always sparse like that? I was also put off by how far apart a lot of stuff is. Champaign is obviously smaller and just about everything is within walking or short bus distance.

Anyway, thank you for all the advice. Its kind of confirming what I've thought, but its nice to hear it from others too.

EDIT: Also, if I were in the top 10% or so of either class, what would my chances be of leaving the midwest should I desire that?




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