Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

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charliebrownwn
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby charliebrownwn » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:53 pm

Bumi wrote:
charliebrownwn wrote:ITT: OP clearly states preferences, TLS assholes irrationally attack preferences in favor of US News rankings.

ITT: OP asks for and then rejects TLS's help.

Also, most people in this thread are telling OP to minimize debt and go to the lower ranked school. The pro-Harvard posts, including mine, are specifically challenging OP's assumption that Harvard will not help her get a government job in Arizona.

I am speaking mostly to DesertFox (priceless comments so far: "dumb choice" and "I'm a little confused what you think Chicago lacks that Arizona has unless you are talking about weather") and raynier (hyperanalyzing OP's relationship status, which is so much of a non-factor in OP's decision that it took less than a sentence to describe it in the opening comment). The harvard discussion is ok.

EDIT: More quotable Desertfox: "your irrational and spastic wants and beliefs".

EDIT 2: Really? DesertFox, rayiner, and bumi are ALL northwestern students? How does this not surprise me.
Last edited by charliebrownwn on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby rayiner » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:55 pm

charliebrownwn wrote:ITT: OP clearly states preferences, TLS assholes irrationally attack preferences in favor of US News rankings.


When I was doing callbacks last yea, one firm told me that they moved their recruiting timeline back because they didn't get enough Harvard grads the year before. A firm changed around their recruiting timeline, DURING A RECESSION, just to get more graduates from one schoool.

Harvard is legit important in the legal world. The USNWR rankings just reflect that.

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby rayiner » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:56 pm

charliebrownwn wrote:
Bumi wrote:
charliebrownwn wrote:ITT: OP clearly states preferences, TLS assholes irrationally attack preferences in favor of US News rankings.

ITT: OP asks for and then rejects TLS's help.

Also, most people in this thread are telling OP to minimize debt and go to the lower ranked school. The pro-Harvard posts, including mine, are specifically challenging OP's assumption that Harvard will not help her get a government job in Arizona.

I am speaking mostly to DesertFox (priceless comments so far: "dumb choice" and "I'm a little confused what you think Chicago lacks has that Arizona has unless you are talking about weather.") and raynier (hyperanalyzing OP's relationship status, which is so much of a non-factor in OP's decision that it took less than a sentence to describe it in the opening comment). The harvard discussion is ok.


What does that have to do with US News rankings? DF isn't telling OP to go to NU because of the rank (it's ranked lower than Berkeley), he's doing it because it's a free fucking ride.

juliachild-ish
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby juliachild-ish » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:13 pm

@LettuceBeef: Neither PCDS nor Xavier. Ghettofab public school ftw! Your post was a little rambling, but I like and get some of your points.

@Bumi and rayiner: Clearly the Harvard name carries weight in all settings. Obviously it would help me get a government job in Arizona. But would I be unable to get the same job with a degree from UT or Berkeley, especially given the significant connections I already have? I don't think so, although I could be wrong. The legal scene in Arizona is not quite as prestige-obsessed as it is in most of the rest of the country. I've heard it can actually be a disadvantage coming from a school like Harvard when many of the hiring partners went in-state; you're perceived as a snob. Of course, that would argue I should go to ASU. Probably not too many people perceive UT grads as snobs, but I don't know about Berkeley grads on the snob scale. I do agree with LettuceBeef's point that Berkeley has more lay prestige than UT, outside of Texas. And actually, in Arizona I think Berkeley probably has a much better reputation than Northwestern.

Bumi
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby Bumi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:14 pm

Honestly, if OP wants to go to Berkeley, she should go to Berkeley. It sounds to me like she'll hit the sweet spot of great but not exceptional prestige, outdoor activity options, warm weather, distance from her (doomed) SO, and disregard for personal indebtedness that she is seeking in a law school choice. Splurge for an apartment with a good view of the bay, OP.

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bk1
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:18 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:@LettuceBeef: Neither PCDS nor Xavier. Ghettofab public school ftw! Your post was a little rambling, but I like and get some of your points.

@Bumi and rayiner: Clearly the Harvard name carries weight in all settings. Obviously it would help me get a government job in Arizona. But would I be unable to get the same job with a degree from UT or Berkeley, especially given the significant connections I already have? I don't think so, although I could be wrong. The legal scene in Arizona is not quite as prestige-obsessed as it is in most of the rest of the country. I've heard it can actually be a disadvantage coming from a school like Harvard when many of the hiring partners went in-state; you're perceived as a snob. Of course, that would argue I should go to ASU. Probably not too many people perceive UT grads as snobs, but I don't know about Berkeley grads on the snob scale. I do agree with LettuceBeef's point that Berkeley has more lay prestige than UT, outside of Texas. And actually, in Arizona I think Berkeley probably has a much better reputation than Northwestern.


The point isn't that you would be unable to get the same job from UT/Boalt, the point is that it would be easier from Harvard.

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby rayiner » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:20 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:Clearly the Harvard name carries weight in all settings. Obviously it would help me get a government job in Arizona. But would I be unable to get the same job with a degree from UT or Berkeley, especially given the significant connections I already have?


It's not a matter of "not being able to". It's a matter of keeping your options open. As a 0L you have no idea what sorts of things will interest you in school. Maybe you'll love litigation and decide you want to do a federal clerkship? Maybe you'll decide you want to go into federal government work? None of these doors will be closed from Berkeley or UT, but they'll be wide open from Harvard.

It's short sighted to say "oh I don't want to go to Harvard I'll just work for some small Arizona firm that might think Harvard is snooty." If you value your career first, and you seem to, you need to consider whether you want to artificially limit yourself at the outset just to live somewhere warmer for three years.

Look at clerkship data: --LinkRemoved--

In the 2008-2009 cycle, 13 9th circuit clerks came from Harvard, compared to 6 from Berkeley and 1 from Texas. The year after it was 14 from Harvard, 8 from Berkeley, 1 from Texas. The 9th circuit is obviously Berkeley's home turf. In the nearby 10th circuit in 2008-2009, it was 5 harvard, 0 berkeley, 1 texas. In 2009-2010 it was 8 Harvard, 0 Berkeley, 0 Texas.
Last edited by rayiner on Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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akili
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby akili » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:22 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby rayiner » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:31 pm

akili wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.


I'm not taking issue with OP's goals, I'm just questioning the data on which she based her decision that Harvard didn't fit those goals. Why does she think it won't fit her personality or her career goals? Stereotypes? Does she realize that Harvard is a huge diverse school with different kinds of people who want different careers? There are people who want to do corporate law, there are people who want academia, there are people who want to serve the public or government, and yes there are people who want to come back to their home state and practice in a medium-sized firm. What about her goals doesn't fit into one of these categories?

I'll go out on a limb and say the OP doesn't have any specific reason to prefer Berkeley to Harvard. She has just convinced herself she dislikes the idea of Harvard and likes the idea of Berkeley. Probably based on some preconceptions about what Harvard is like and what Berkeley is like.

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby sarahlawg » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:36 pm

rayiner wrote:
akili wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.


I'm not taking issue with OP's goals, I'm just questioning the data on which she based her decision that Harvard didn't fit those goals. Why does she think it won't fit her personality or her career goals? Stereotypes? Does she realize that Harvard is a huge diverse school with different kinds of people who want different careers? There are people who want to do corporate law, there are people who want academia, there are people who want to serve the public or government, and yes there are people who want to come back to their home state and practice in a medium-sized firm. What about her goals doesn't fit into one of these categories?

I'll go out on a limb and say the OP doesn't have any specific reason to prefer Berkeley to Harvard. She has just convinced herself she dislikes the idea of Harvard and likes the idea of Berkeley. Probably based on some preconceptions about what Harvard is like and what Berkeley is like.


She went to ASW and didn't like it.

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rayiner
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby rayiner » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:41 pm

sarahlawg wrote:
rayiner wrote:
akili wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.


I'm not taking issue with OP's goals, I'm just questioning the data on which she based her decision that Harvard didn't fit those goals. Why does she think it won't fit her personality or her career goals? Stereotypes? Does she realize that Harvard is a huge diverse school with different kinds of people who want different careers? There are people who want to do corporate law, there are people who want academia, there are people who want to serve the public or government, and yes there are people who want to come back to their home state and practice in a medium-sized firm. What about her goals doesn't fit into one of these categories?

I'll go out on a limb and say the OP doesn't have any specific reason to prefer Berkeley to Harvard. She has just convinced herself she dislikes the idea of Harvard and likes the idea of Berkeley. Probably based on some preconceptions about what Harvard is like and what Berkeley is like.


She went to ASW and didn't like it.


Your impression of a school at ASW is pretty random based on the small sample of your classmates you happen to meet. They're good for checking out the school itself, but not so much for evaluating the vibe of the students. My impression of NU when I came for my interview, for example, was very different from what I thought after I'd been here for a year.

0L's overestimate the degree to which schools are culturally homogenous.

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby LettuceBeefRealTea » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:56 pm

rayiner wrote:
akili wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.


I'm not taking issue with OP's goals, I'm just questioning the data on which she based her decision that Harvard didn't fit those goals. Why does she think it won't fit her personality or her career goals? Stereotypes? Does she realize that Harvard is a huge diverse school with different kinds of people who want different careers? There are people who want to do corporate law, there are people who want academia, there are people who want to serve the public or government, and yes there are people who want to come back to their home state and practice in a medium-sized firm. What about her goals doesn't fit into one of these categories?

I'll go out on a limb and say the OP doesn't have any specific reason to prefer Berkeley to Harvard. She has just convinced herself she dislikes the idea of Harvard and likes the idea of Berkeley. Probably based on some preconceptions about what Harvard is like and what Berkeley is like.


Generalization is an evolutionary human heuristic because it works.
OP stated that it is a quality of life, not people issue. Having been out here for 3 years, the NE sucks. I've make some awesome friends and memories, but I can't wait to leave and never come back. Maybe it is an AZ/CA thing.

It sounds like OP is set on Berkeley, and sticker price isn't a barrier.

PS HLS killed my uncle's soul. When he was at Stanford UG, he was the happiest and most fun person that I knew. Once he HLS, he lost all his joy and passion. Just a little bit of anecdotal evidence.

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alexonfyre
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby alexonfyre » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:06 pm

LettuceBeefRealTea wrote:
rayiner wrote:
akili wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.


I'm not taking issue with OP's goals, I'm just questioning the data on which she based her decision that Harvard didn't fit those goals. Why does she think it won't fit her personality or her career goals? Stereotypes? Does she realize that Harvard is a huge diverse school with different kinds of people who want different careers? There are people who want to do corporate law, there are people who want academia, there are people who want to serve the public or government, and yes there are people who want to come back to their home state and practice in a medium-sized firm. What about her goals doesn't fit into one of these categories?

I'll go out on a limb and say the OP doesn't have any specific reason to prefer Berkeley to Harvard. She has just convinced herself she dislikes the idea of Harvard and likes the idea of Berkeley. Probably based on some preconceptions about what Harvard is like and what Berkeley is like.


Generalization is an evolutionary human heuristic because it works.
OP stated that it is a quality of life, not people issue. Having been out here for 3 years, the NE sucks. I've make some awesome friends and memories, but I can't wait to leave and never come back. Maybe it is an AZ/CA thing.

It sounds like OP is set on Berkeley, and sticker price isn't a barrier.


That's fine, but I would think that a person would post a question like this to anonymous strangers to get candid, objective advice. If he is deadset on spending over $150k for something that he could get for free then he should just do that, but he shouldn't expect the forum to justify that decision for him when it is not the best objective answer to his problem.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:13 pm

Kind of wonder if this is a troll that nobody has outed yet (haven't read all the pages so maybe I missed it).. really.. turned down Harvard because of the fit?? And full scholly at NU but no money at Berkeley.. and still considering Berkeley??

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:22 pm

Lawquacious wrote:Kind of wonder if this is a troll that nobody has outed yet (haven't read all the pages so maybe I missed it).. really.. turned down Harvard because of the fit?? And full scholly at NU but no money at Berkeley.. and still considering Berkeley??


I also said I would (between Berkeley and NU), and I am no troll.

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby chasgoose » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:30 pm

I would say NU is the winner here. I grew up in Phoenix and Northwestern actually has a great rep and network out there (due to all the Chicago transplants) perhaps even better than Berkeley (not many people move from the Bay Area to Phoenix lol). Berkeley isn't better enough (particularly in Phoenix) to pay sticker (especially at their INSANE out of state prices). If you do still want to go to Berkeley, you have to push the NU/UT full tuition scholarships. Yes they might not match them, but they should cough up something. Also, I know you don't want to go to Harvard (and as someone who turned them down for undergrad, I totally get that, Harvard is drastically different than Yale or Stanford), but I hope Berkeley doesn't know that yet. I would definitely keep your Harvard acceptance on the table as a bargaining chip until Berkeley won't budge anymore. If you really want Berkeley and you push hard enough they should give you something. If they don't I would take that as a clear sign of their dire financial situation and would move on. Berkeley at sticker is just not worth the insane costs especially when you have NU for free on the table.
Last edited by chasgoose on Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby cornellbeez » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:30 pm

rayiner wrote:
akili wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the OP doesn't want to go to Harvard because it isn't a good fit for her personality, her goals and her future career. It's her life and choices and Harvard is not on the table for her. I wouldn't want Harvard either.


I'm not taking issue with OP's goals, I'm just questioning the data on which she based her decision that Harvard didn't fit those goals. Why does she think it won't fit her personality or her career goals? Stereotypes? Does she realize that Harvard is a huge diverse school with different kinds of people who want different careers? There are people who want to do corporate law, there are people who want academia, there are people who want to serve the public or government, and yes there are people who want to come back to their home state and practice in a medium-sized firm. What about her goals doesn't fit into one of these categories?

I'll go out on a limb and say the OP doesn't have any specific reason to prefer Berkeley to Harvard. She has just convinced herself she dislikes the idea of Harvard and likes the idea of Berkeley. Probably based on some preconceptions about what Harvard is like and what Berkeley is like.


This. First, I think this thread is an elaborate flame.

Second, I'm a 2L (as is rayiner) and I would go to Harvard > NU (full ride) > UT (full ride)/Berkeley (sticker). You guys are over-emphasizing the (probably imagined) differences among schools. It's LAW SCHOOL. It's going to be a ton of work at any of these schools. I can't believe this idealized bullshit. Does the OP think she's going to have "better" classmates at Boalt or UT than NU or Harvard? Most of your classmates at ANY of these schools are going to be workaholic, self-absorbed types. The vast majority at Boalt and UT want biglaw, same with NU and Harvard. The purpose of going to law school is to get a JOB while minimizing your debt as much as possible. This is a professional school, not a party time master's degree in the liberal arts.

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby juliachild-ish » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:45 pm

chasgoose wrote:I would say NU is the winner here. I grew up in Phoenix and Northwestern actually has a great rep and network out there (due to all the Chicago transplants) perhaps even better than Berkeley (not many people move from the Bay Area to Phoenix lol). Berkeley isn't better enough (particularly in Phoenix) to pay sticker (especially at their INSANE out of state prices). If you do still want to go to Berkeley, you have to push the NU/UT full tuition scholarships. Yes they might not match them, but they should cough up something. Also, I know you don't want to go to Harvard (and as someone who turned them down for undergrad, I totally get that, Harvard is drastically different than Yale or Stanford), but I hope Berkeley doesn't know that yet. I would definitely keep your Harvard acceptance on the table as a bargaining chip until Berkeley won't budge anymore. If you really want Berkeley and you push hard enough they should give you something. If they don't I would take that as a clear sign of their dire financial situation and would move on. Berkeley at sticker is just not worth the insane costs especially when you have NU for free on the table.


Thanks, chasgoose, for advice which is actually helpful and relevant. You're right, there are quite a lot of people from Chicago in Arizona (and vice versa), and not too many from the Bay Area, because why leave? I guess I was thinking more in terms of Berkeley's location in a neighboring state, but you may have a good point. If nothing else, this thread has been useful in convincing me to try negotiating at Berkeley, when I had pretty much given up any hope of it being fruitful. I haven't actually officially withdrawn from Harvard, in order to keep it on the table as a bargaining chip ( I did so in hopes of using it to negotiate with UT, which worked).

And I think it's hilarious that people think I'm a troll. It's so impossible that anyone could ever turn down Harvard? Apparently, the more likely scenario is that I have been gradually concocting an elaborate identity for myself for the past three months on this site, just in order to bash Harvard. Right...

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:50 pm

chasgoose wrote:I would say NU is the winner here. I grew up in Phoenix and Northwestern actually has a great rep and network out there (due to all the Chicago transplants) perhaps even better than Berkeley (not many people move from the Bay Area to Phoenix lol). Berkeley isn't better enough (particularly in Phoenix) to pay sticker (especially at their INSANE out of state prices). If you do still want to go to Berkeley, you have to push the NU/UT full tuition scholarships. Yes they might not match them, but they should cough up something. Also, I know you don't want to go to Harvard (and as someone who turned them down for undergrad, I totally get that, Harvard is drastically different than Yale or Stanford), but I hope Berkeley doesn't know that yet. I would definitely keep your Harvard acceptance on the table as a bargaining chip until Berkeley won't budge anymore. If you really want Berkeley and you push hard enough they should give you something. If they don't I would take that as a clear sign of their dire financial situation and would move on. Berkeley at sticker is just not worth the insane costs especially when you have NU for free on the table.


+1 great advice

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:53 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:
chasgoose wrote:I would say NU is the winner here. I grew up in Phoenix and Northwestern actually has a great rep and network out there (due to all the Chicago transplants) perhaps even better than Berkeley (not many people move from the Bay Area to Phoenix lol). Berkeley isn't better enough (particularly in Phoenix) to pay sticker (especially at their INSANE out of state prices). If you do still want to go to Berkeley, you have to push the NU/UT full tuition scholarships. Yes they might not match them, but they should cough up something. Also, I know you don't want to go to Harvard (and as someone who turned them down for undergrad, I totally get that, Harvard is drastically different than Yale or Stanford), but I hope Berkeley doesn't know that yet. I would definitely keep your Harvard acceptance on the table as a bargaining chip until Berkeley won't budge anymore. If you really want Berkeley and you push hard enough they should give you something. If they don't I would take that as a clear sign of their dire financial situation and would move on. Berkeley at sticker is just not worth the insane costs especially when you have NU for free on the table.


Thanks, chasgoose, for advice which is actually helpful and relevant. You're right, there are quite a lot of people from Chicago in Arizona (and vice versa), and not too many from the Bay Area, because why leave? I guess I was thinking more in terms of Berkeley's location in a neighboring state, but you may have a good point. If nothing else, this thread has been useful in convincing me to try negotiating at Berkeley, when I had pretty much given up any hope of it being fruitful. I haven't actually officially withdrawn from Harvard, in order to keep it on the table as a bargaining chip ( I did so in hopes of using it to negotiate with UT, which worked).

And I think it's hilarious that people think I'm a troll. It's so impossible that anyone could ever turn down Harvard? Apparently, the more likely scenario is that I have been gradually concocting an elaborate identity for myself for the past three months on this site, just in order to bash Harvard. Right...



Well you don't exactly seem like a troll to me, but it does seem to me that at the very least you are not well-researched about law schools or the value propositions you face at this point (in terms of employment prospects x debt loads etc). Could be wrong about that too though, and it is possible that maybe money is of no issue to you or you have an awesome job connect for when you graduate; that could mean that you would reasonably look at this differently than the average person probably would. Just IMO.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby juliachild-ish » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:57 pm

cornellbeez wrote:This. First, I think this thread is an elaborate flame.

Second, I'm a 2L (as is rayiner) and I would go to Harvard > NU (full ride) > UT (full ride)/Berkeley (sticker). You guys are over-emphasizing the (probably imagined) differences among schools. It's LAW SCHOOL. It's going to be a ton of work at any of these schools. I can't believe this idealized bullshit. Does the OP think she's going to have "better" classmates at Boalt or UT than NU or Harvard? Most of your classmates at ANY of these schools are going to be workaholic, self-absorbed types. The vast majority at Boalt and UT want biglaw, same with NU and Harvard. The purpose of going to law school is to get a JOB while minimizing your debt as much as possible. This is a professional school, not a party time master's degree in the liberal arts.


I don't think law school is going to be fun or anything less than backbreaking nonstop work. Obviously not. But do you really think that all top law schools are essentially the same? That's a genuine question, since you're a 2L and I'm a lowly 0L. Because that's not what schools try to sell you on; they try to convince you to go to a school because of whatever unique aspects set it apart from the competition. Is that all just meaningless?

As you say, the point is to get a job while minimizing debt, and I'm trying to resolve which half of that goal is more important (better job placement or less debt). Assuming I'm not interested in Northwestern because I'd rather not be in Chicago, I'm trying to figure out if it's better to minimize debt at Texas or get better job placement at Berkeley. Or should I put Northwestern back in the picture because it offers the best combination of job placement and cost (still more expensive than Texas due to much higher COL)?

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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby alexonfyre » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:00 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:
chasgoose wrote:I would say NU is the winner here. I grew up in Phoenix and Northwestern actually has a great rep and network out there (due to all the Chicago transplants) perhaps even better than Berkeley (not many people move from the Bay Area to Phoenix lol). Berkeley isn't better enough (particularly in Phoenix) to pay sticker (especially at their INSANE out of state prices). If you do still want to go to Berkeley, you have to push the NU/UT full tuition scholarships. Yes they might not match them, but they should cough up something. Also, I know you don't want to go to Harvard (and as someone who turned them down for undergrad, I totally get that, Harvard is drastically different than Yale or Stanford), but I hope Berkeley doesn't know that yet. I would definitely keep your Harvard acceptance on the table as a bargaining chip until Berkeley won't budge anymore. If you really want Berkeley and you push hard enough they should give you something. If they don't I would take that as a clear sign of their dire financial situation and would move on. Berkeley at sticker is just not worth the insane costs especially when you have NU for free on the table.


Thanks, chasgoose, for advice which is actually helpful and relevant. You're right, there are quite a lot of people from Chicago in Arizona (and vice versa), and not too many from the Bay Area, because why leave? I guess I was thinking more in terms of Berkeley's location in a neighboring state, but you may have a good point. If nothing else, this thread has been useful in convincing me to try negotiating at Berkeley, when I had pretty much given up any hope of it being fruitful. I haven't actually officially withdrawn from Harvard, in order to keep it on the table as a bargaining chip ( I did so in hopes of using it to negotiate with UT, which worked).

And I think it's hilarious that people think I'm a troll. It's so impossible that anyone could ever turn down Harvard? Apparently, the more likely scenario is that I have been gradually concocting an elaborate identity for myself for the past three months on this site, just in order to bash Harvard. Right...


Not that this is a troll account, only that this is a troll thread. If you were to choose NU full over Harvard, then people might scoff, but you have a legitimate financial reason there, however to throw Harvard out and still choose Berk? Seriously, something is fishy there. Either you have some inexplicable anti-Harvard bias (which means that even mentioning your acceptance to hls in this thread is probably trolling, expecting people to jump on you so you could make comments like the above quoted), or you really haven't considered this decision in fairness, and either way you are entitled to the same response...stop being immature and AT LEAST make harvard part of your equation, this is a decision that effects your entire life, perhaps the most important one you have made to this point, and you are completely dismissing a "holy grail option" that only a select few in the history of our society have ever even been offered. Excuse us if we sound incredulous to your claims.

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bk1
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:01 pm

juliachild-ish wrote:I don't think law school is going to be fun or anything less than backbreaking nonstop work. Obviously not. But do you really think that all top law schools are essentially the same? That's a genuine question, since you're a 2L and I'm a lowly 0L. Because that's not what schools try to sell you on; they try to convince you to go to a school because of whatever unique aspects set it apart from the competition. Is that all just meaningless?

As you say, the point is to get a job while minimizing debt, and I'm trying to resolve which half of that goal is more important (better job placement or less debt). Assuming I'm not interested in Northwestern because I'd rather not be in Chicago, I'm trying to figure out if it's better to minimize debt at Texas or get better job placement at Berkeley. Or should I put Northwestern back in the picture because it offers the best combination of job placement and cost (still more expensive than Texas due to much higher COL)?


I think the cost difference between UT and NU is marginal considering it is half payed for anyways. Anyways, I'll quote my thoughts on UT versus NU that I posted earlier:

bk1 wrote:It's pretty simple, as for the free law schools, what do you value more?

Relationship with SO - Then go to NU.
Not being in Chicago - Then go to UT.


Berkeley isn't better enough than NU or UT to justify going there. Harvard is better enough than NU or UT to justify going there.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby IzziesGal » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:06 pm

If you're interested in enviro/energy, then Boalt is the way to go. I was on the ed board of the enviro law journal this year and had an internship in energy law; PM me if you have questions about my experience in the enviro program. Since you're not interested in biglaw/corp law, Boalt has an amazing LRAP program that coupled with the federal program will almost pay off your loans for you. I am going into biglaw myself, so I can't speak to this personally; but I know a ton of people on the enviro journal who are doing this and I could put you in touch with them as a new admit. Good luck in your decision!

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IzziesGal
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. UT (full ride) vs. NU (full ride)

Postby IzziesGal » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:08 pm

Some info on enviro program:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/148.htm

Some info on clean tech:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/9694.htm




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