Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go to school in the fall?

William and Mary
60
57%
Notre Dame
46
43%
 
Total votes: 106

mettasutta
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Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby mettasutta » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:53 am

I received 10K per year from William and Mary and 12K a year from Notre Dame. I have little desire for Big Law; I hope to do PI work; specifically child advocacy/education law. Although I prefer to work in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic, the latter of which W&M feeds into, I'm not totally opposed to settling in the Midwest, where ND's prospects are the strongest, although, it seems to have somewhat more of a national reach than its T30 peers. I thrive in small town environs, which both schools exemplify. Cost of living is equally low at both schools, however tuition at ND will be 7K a year more costly. I'm somehwhat debt-averse due to my career aspirations, though I have no undergrad debt and my folks are willing to help me out. Which school would be a better fit given my preferences?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:55 am

ND easily IMO.

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sundance95
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby sundance95 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:05 am

Have you visited each?

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buckilaw
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby buckilaw » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:09 am

sundance95 wrote:Have you visited each?


+1. The difference in placement and debt is rather small. Might as well choose based on your feel for each school.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:43 am

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

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Borhas
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Borhas » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:45 am

Blindmelon wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

+1

also, Virginia is like, way better than Indiana

mettasutta
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby mettasutta » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:01 am

BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Why do you say this considering that W&M is similarly-ranked and somewhat cheaper (and has less shitty weather)?

I did visit W&M for ASW and absolutely loved the school's culture, location, etc.; I had a very positive gut feeling overall...hope to visit ND in early April.

I am still waiting on schools where my admissions prospects range from decent (BC, BU, WUSTL) to not a snowball's chance in Hell (Penn, Cornell, GULC PT, Duke). I am also riding out Vandy's WL. My #'s are 3.82/164 and I'm toying with retaking in June in order to stand a better chance of getting off...if I end up scoring 170+, I might as well reapply as early as possible next cycle and realistically shoot for T14.

Bumi
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Bumi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:07 am

If you haven't visited yet, know that the small-townness is extremely different between Williamsburg and Notre Dame. South Bend is much more isolated. Williamsburg isn't far from some urban areas.

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Stonewall
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Stonewall » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:11 am

Borhas wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

+1

also, Virginia is like, way better than Indiana


i have to agree with the W&M choice. stay on the east coast, it will put you in a comparable stace upon graduation (even though you dont want biglaw)

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ndirish2010
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:15 am

Borhas wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.

+1

also, Virginia is like, way better than Indiana


Ever been here?

Nonetheless, given your location goals, I would probably choose W&M as well.

fetalposition
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby fetalposition » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:16 am

Bumi wrote:If you haven't visited yet, know that the small-townness is extremely different between Williamsburg and Notre Dame. South Bend is much more isolated. Williamsburg isn't far from some urban areas.


If you count Richmond and Norfolk as "urban," W&M is about an hour away. If you want to count REAL urban areas, ND is actually much closer to Chicago than W&M is to DC.

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OGR3
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby OGR3 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:18 am

South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:18 am

mettasutta wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Why do you say this considering that W&M is similarly-ranked and somewhat cheaper (and has less shitty weather)?

I did visit W&M for ASW and absolutely loved the school's culture, location, etc.; I had a very positive gut feeling overall...hope to visit ND in early April.

I am still waiting on schools where my admissions prospects range from decent (BC, BU, WUSTL) to not a snowball's chance in Hell (Penn, Cornell, GULC PT, Duke). I am also riding out Vandy's WL. My #'s are 3.82/164 and I'm toying with retaking in June in order to stand a better chance of getting off...if I end up scoring 170+, I might as well reapply as early as possible next cycle and realistically shoot for T14.


I didnt read that you prefer mid-atlantic, which in that case W&M maybe is the right choice. ND has better mobility and still puts about 25% in biglaw I believe. Overall since ND feeds into multiple markets I would feel a bit more comfortable getting A JOB (meaning any) from ND than W&M, but again, if you're mostly interested in Mid-Atlantic region W&M might be the correct choice.

Bumi
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Bumi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:31 am

fetalposition wrote:If you count Richmond and Norfolk as "urban," W&M is about an hour away. If you want to count REAL urban areas, ND is actually much closer to Chicago than W&M is to DC.


Yes, I do count Richmond and Norfolk as urban. "Urban" is a word with a specific definition.

fetalposition
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby fetalposition » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:36 am

Bumi wrote:
fetalposition wrote:If you count Richmond and Norfolk as "urban," W&M is about an hour away. If you want to count REAL urban areas, ND is actually much closer to Chicago than W&M is to DC.


Yes, I do count Richmond and Norfolk as urban. "Urban" is a word with a specific definition.


Yes, well, if we're going strictly by definitions, South Bend is considered urban. As someone who lives there, let me tell you, "urban" isn't the first word that comes to mind when describing the place.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:37 am

OGR3 wrote:South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.


Lived here for four years and love it, you should probably come before you say things like that.

TyrodTaylor
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby TyrodTaylor » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:43 am

FWIW W&M has a better football team

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Blindmelon
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:53 am

I absolutely loved WM when I visited - ND was just okay. I think they're peer schools by most metrics. I'd stay cheap.

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AreJay711
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:53 am

William and Mary for the Mid-Atlantic and Carolinas. Overall the schools are similar so you might as well go to the one that puts you in the region where you want to practice.

mettasutta
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby mettasutta » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:36 pm

If I get into Vandy off of the waitlist, would it be worth attending even if I would most likely have to pay sticker? I'm sure scholarship funds would be all dried up by the summer, even if I do really well on the June LSAT. Would Vandy be better for PI in the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast than my current options?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:49 pm

Depends on how debt adverse you are. IMO Vandy is the best non-t14 in the nation.

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Kchuck
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby Kchuck » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:59 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:ND easily IMO.


Easily WM. Much cheaper (you'll get in-state after a year), feeds much better into the Mid-Atlantic, likely equal to ND in the NE.


I had heard that the state of Virginia (and W&M) was notoriously difficult to get in state tuition for second and third years..

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ndirish2010
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:00 pm

AreJay711 wrote:William and Mary for the Mid-Atlantic and Carolinas. Overall the schools are similar so you might as well go to the one that puts you in the region where you want to practice.


FWIW: Class of 2010- ND 23.84% NLJ 250, W&M 15.42%...I know you said you didn't want biglaw but to the extent that biglaw jobs are proxies for how the rest of the class is doing, 8% is a fairly large gap.

AP-375
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby AP-375 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:17 pm

From what I've heard, W&M is very PI-focused. I don't know anything about ND's public interest program, but having more of a focus on PI could be a factor in favor of W&M.

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OGR3
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Re: Deathmatch!: William & Mary ($$) vs. Notre Dame ($$)

Postby OGR3 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:54 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
OGR3 wrote:South Bend is a shit hole.

W&M FTW.


Lived here for four years and love it, you should probably come before you say things like that.


I did.




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