Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

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PatientCreation
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:35 pm

Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby PatientCreation » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:21 am

Here's the deal... I have narrowed my options down to two schools and they are drastically different in every aspect. You can check my profile for my stats, but I had a 166/3.3, I'm not an URM, and my undergrad major was English.
The two schools I am still considering are the University of Arizona at about 23k/yr or the University of St Thomas for free.
Yes, I know Arizona is T1 and UST is T3, but I also know that I am an AmeriCorps member (meaning I know what it's like to be poor and don't want to stay that way for long). I don't have any family assets to fall back on, either. I went to the admitted student day at UST and loved everything about it, yet have not visited Arizona yet.
Note: I have always lived in the Midwest, I am very pale, and I do not want to ever try and deal with immigration or tribal law. Practicing in the Midwest or Minnesota specifically would not bother me at all (at least for a few years post-grad), so please consider this when sharing your advice--is it worth going 70k more in debt for tuition at UofA over a free-ride at a T3, ten-year old school that climbs rankings every year?

Please save the T-14 or bust comments for others. I appreciate any real advice anyone has for me, as seat deposits begin this week.

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YankeesFan
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby YankeesFan » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:28 am

What happened to your cycle? It looks like you got dinged/waitlisted by several schools that you should have been accepted to (BC, W&L, American).

As for where to go, its up to you. If you want to work in the Midwest go to St. Thomas (but know that this won't give you the Midwest, only the Twin city area). If you don't think you would like living in the SW than DO NOT go to Arizona.

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homestyle28
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:36 am

PatientCreation wrote:Here's the deal... I have narrowed my options down to two schools and they are drastically different in every aspect. You can check my profile for my stats, but I had a 166/3.3, I'm not an URM, and my undergrad major was English.
The two schools I am still considering are the University of Arizona at about 23k/yr or the University of St Thomas for free.
Yes, I know Arizona is T1 and UST is T3, but I also know that I am an AmeriCorps member (meaning I know what it's like to be poor and don't want to stay that way for long). I don't have any family assets to fall back on, either. I went to the admitted student day at UST and loved everything about it, yet have not visited Arizona yet.
Note: I have always lived in the Midwest, I am very pale, and I do not want to ever try and deal with immigration or tribal law. Practicing in the Midwest or Minnesota specifically would not bother me at all (at least for a few years post-grad), so please consider this when sharing your advice--is it worth going 70k more in debt for tuition at UofA over a free-ride at a T3, ten-year old school that climbs rankings every year?

Please save the T-14 or bust comments for others. I appreciate any real advice anyone has for me, as seat deposits begin this week.


Fellow Americorp-er here (well a VISTA anyways) are you hoping to do the PI/gov't/non-profit route? If so, then I'd minimize debt and quickly look for some solid volunteering/interning opps in MN (I think for folks dedicated to PI, and not just prestigious PI, the TTT despair is mildly overblown here) You'll get your post LS jobs based on your WE and networking, having a JD will only change the kind of jobs you are qualified for...On the other hand, if you're unsure what you want to do post-LS, then AZ might be the logical choice as it keeps more doors open.

lawboy81
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby lawboy81 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:46 am

Gotta say man, it sounds lik you've narrowed it down to two rathr unappeaing choices. It clearly sounds like you don't like the Southwest -- if yo don't want to live and practice in Arizona then don't go to school there. U Arizona ain' going to open any other doors for you. I don't know anything about UST but I'm sure yu'd have to be top of your class to have decent job prospects even in Minnesota. For free I guess it's a btter option than Arizona.

Just curious what happened? You've got good numbrs -- If you want the midwest why no Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, etc.

PatientCreation
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby PatientCreation » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:06 am

lawboy81 wrote:Gotta say man, it sounds lik you've narrowed it down to two rathr unappeaing choices. It clearly sounds like you don't like the Southwest -- if yo don't want to live and practice in Arizona then don't go to school there. U Arizona ain' going to open any other doors for you. I don't know anything about UST but I'm sure yu'd have to be top of your class to have decent job prospects even in Minnesota. For free I guess it's a btter option than Arizona.

Just curious what happened? You've got good numbrs -- If you want the midwest why no Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, etc.


I applied late into the cycle. I first took the LSAT in 2009 and did dead average (for personal reasons) so I had to budget my time and retook it in December of 2010. That left me waiting for my NEW lsat score before reapplying anywhere. I was WListed at Iowa and Minnesota; Illinois straight-up rejected me. It's quite hard to stand out with what I had... and for some reason they don't like that I graduated in three years yet still had a couple of misdemeanors on my record (came up for every school even with my addendum).

On the PI question, I honestly don't know if that's what I'll do. I have an interview at the Attorney General's office this Wednesday for Iowa so we'll see what kind of caseload they give me and maybe that will help influence my decision of what law/where to study law.

Keep offering suggestions please. This is all very helpful-

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buckilaw
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby buckilaw » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:15 am

Do you have full tuition + a cost of living stipend at St. John's? If you don't you will still incur a decent amount of debt. UofA is in Arizona, pretty much speaks for itself. IMO retake and reapply, you don't seem excited about either of these options. While you don't need to go T14 or bust, with a better LSAT you could try for $$ at WUSTL or Illinois next cycle. You would also be able to grab full rides at schools better than St. John's.

PatientCreation
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby PatientCreation » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:25 am

buckilaw wrote:Do you have full tuition + a cost of living stipend at St. John's? If you don't you will still incur a decent amount of debt. UofA is in Arizona, pretty much speaks for itself. IMO retake and reapply, you don't seem excited about either of these options. While you don't need to go T14 or bust, with a better LSAT you could try for $$ at WUSTL or Illinois next cycle. You would also be able to grab full rides at schools better than St. John's.


No, I have full-tuition at St Thomas--no stipend. COL is comparable for Minneapolis v Tucson, and really, if anything, MN is cheaper. I am not going to retake and reapply. I also want to try to hide any enthusiasm I have for either school because quite honestly, I like different things about each school, but lean toward St Thomas. (gorgeous building, great faculty, required mentor all 3 years, students have been very helpful, in the Twin Cities). I have no doubt I could get a full-ride at T2 schools next cycle [WITHOUT retaking], but I want to start school this fall, period. I appreciate the suggestion, but I cannot allow myself to wait any longer, I know I want to be in law school and can't sit out another year.

tamlyric
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby tamlyric » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:38 am

Go to UST. Make lots of connections in the Twin Cities. Enjoy the freedom of finishing school with little debt!

UST has a lot going for it, and they are working hard to improve the school. Forget about the "T v. TTT" crap. Ask yourself where you'd go if you had never heard of the USNWR rankings? My guess is UST. If so, I think that's your answer.

I used to live in the Twin Cities and applied to all four schools there before choosing to move out of state. PM me if you have any questions. :)

BeautifulSW
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby BeautifulSW » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:38 pm

Disclaimer: By my name, you can tell that I live in and am very fond of the Southwest, though I was born and raised in the Seattle area. Nevertheless...

In general, outside of the Top Handful, I agree that cheaper is better and free is best. But oh, lordy, what kind of market will you be going into out of UST? Tuition is a BIG expense but it isn't the ONLY expense; you also have lost income for three years. You will still graduate, probably, with significant debt and into a market with four established law schools and not that much economic growth potential, maybe.

Arizona went into the tank with the Crash in 2008. Phoenix cratered. But listen; Phoenix is a HUGE legal market and not at all over-lawyered in raw numbers. There is a real future in Arizona and a J.D. from the University of will sell well. Arizona is not only, or even mostly, about "immigration and tribal law". And Tucson is pretty cheap to live in.

Unless you really prefer blizzards and lutefisk to sunshine and green chile?

Okay, that's my sales pitch. Take it with whatever grains of salt you think appropriate but remember, I DO live in N.Mex. and spend a good bit of time in the Grand Canyon State.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:03 pm

If you don't like the SouthWest US, avoid Arizona.

St. Thomas has a very strong reputation in the Twin Cities area. Based on your posts, UST seems to be the easy choice.

PatientCreation
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby PatientCreation » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:29 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I will be sending my seat deposit to UST tomorrow, but am not necessarily closing any doors. I have until April 15th to decide if I'm putting a deposit in at the U of AZ. If anyone thinks I'm being ridiculous, please let me know-

BeautifulSW
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby BeautifulSW » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:54 pm

If it's the lutefisk, remember that you can order it online even in Arizona... :)

PatientCreation
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby PatientCreation » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:22 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:If it's the lutefisk, remember that you can order it online even in Arizona... :)


:shock: What?! Guess Arizona it is!... :wink:

midwestrocks
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Re: Advice, Guidance, and Suggestions-Please! (T v TTT)

Postby midwestrocks » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:08 pm

I'm surprised you didn't get into Minn. with those numbers. I also took the December LSAT, applied in February and got in with a 167/2.9. Seems pretty stupid of them to let me in with an almost identical LSAT and a lower gpa.

Anyway, I'd go to Arizona. St. Thomas grads are supposed to be really struggling. If you don't want to be poor, a JD from a TTT (almost TTTT) probably isn't worth that much even if it's free. Also, I hear good things about Tuscon.




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