Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which is the least terrible option?

#1. Columbia or NYU: $325,000
57
27%
#2. Duke: $225,000
50
23%
#4. UCLA: $160,000 - $195,000*
30
14%
#5. WUSTL: $150,000
7
3%
#6. UIUC: $145,000
6
3%
#7. Take a year off and reapply earlier to get better options.
42
20%
#8. Seriously, don't go to law school.
23
11%
 
Total votes: 215

adammac17
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby adammac17 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:50 pm

well-hello-there wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:columbia biglaw FTW!

It's not $325K because the first $75K doesn't count. Those are sunk costs that you've already spent and should not be a factor in your decision making process. You have to pay that money back regardless of what you do in life.

Columbia is the only sane choice here.

Terrible advice is terrible.

clearly you don't understand cost/benefit analysis. what are you? a sociology major?


im betting he's an econ major (as am i). opportunity costs are viewed differently from an econ perspective than a business perspective.

but back to op, wait a year and apply first day apps are out. who knows, YHS might even bite and this wont be an issue this time next year.

IhateFoxHunting
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby IhateFoxHunting » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:52 pm

mst wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:columbia biglaw FTW!

It's not $325K because the first $75K doesn't count. Those are sunk costs that you've already spent and should not be a factor in your decision making process. You have to pay that money back regardless of what you do in life.

Columbia is the only sane choice here.

Terrible advice is terrible.

clearly you don't understand cost/benefit analysis. what are you? a sociology major?


What are you? Some second year business major who just learned about the term sunk-cost?

That current debt IS something to worry about. Get big-law shafted with 300k in debt and getting big-law shafted with 200k in debt is a WORLD of difference.

EDIT: damn someone beat me to it.


Yes! Why in the world someone would forget their current debt when considering borrowing more is beyond me. I don't care how smart you are, it just don't make no sense.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:56 pm

arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4

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Emma.
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby Emma. » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:56 pm

1) Take a year (or 2, or 3!) to work and pay off some of that debt
2) When you apply make sure your apps are as good as they can possibly be and get them submitted at the very beginning of the cycle
3) Go to the best school that offers you a significant scholly
4) ???
5) Profit

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stratocophic
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby stratocophic » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:57 pm

mst wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:columbia biglaw FTW!

It's not $325K because the first $75K doesn't count. Those are sunk costs that you've already spent and should not be a factor in your decision making process. You have to pay that money back regardless of what you do in life.

Columbia is the only sane choice here.

Terrible advice is terrible.

clearly you don't understand cost/benefit analysis. what are you? a sociology major?


What are you? Some second year business major who just learned about the term sunk-cost?

That current debt IS something to worry about. Get big-law shafted with 300k in debt and getting big-law shafted with 200k in debt is a WORLD of difference.

EDIT: damn someone beat me to it.
Image
Have to get up pret-ty early in the morning to get the drop on me
well-hello-there wrote:arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4
Oh good, he's back for more!

mst
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby mst » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:57 pm

well-hello-there wrote:arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4


ok obvious trolling.

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Moxie
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby Moxie » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:57 pm

I'd really advocate taking some time off to limit your existing debt, but I'm not sure how feasible that is.

Thinking about this, I'm down to Columbia and UCLA. $325,000 in debt is an unbelievably large amount of money, but CLS provides the best chance to pay down the debt through Biglaw. But personally, I think UCLA provides the best balance of lower debt and employment prospects. Getting Biglaw from UCLA will be hard, but not impossible.

Tl;dr - take time off to pay down debt if possible, otherwise take UCLA for minimized debt with decent job prospects.

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Magnolia
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby Magnolia » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:59 pm

well-hello-there wrote:arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4

No.

However, you're arguing that 2+2=2 because the first 2 is a sunk cost and shouldn't count.

bball25
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby bball25 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:59 pm

Not telling you to go to WUSTL or UIUC, but it would cost you much less than $70,000 a year. Assuming a $7,000 or $8,000 a year apartment payment which would be $18,000 to $21,000 over the course of three years; if you living humbly I can't imagine having to spend $50,000 over the next three years.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:00 pm

all this "take a year off to work and pay down your debt" crazy talk is just blowing my mind!!!!

ITT, nobody knows the concepts of "sunk costs" and "opportunity cost"

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:01 pm

Magnolia wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4

No.

However, you're arguing that 2+2=2 because the first 2 is a sunk cost and shouldn't count.

wait, what are you blithering about?

TheStrand
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby TheStrand » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:03 pm

Money-wise, I was--am?--in a similar boat. I started out with 110k undergrad debt which is down to about 84k now after two years of working. I applied to Michigan ED and was basically prepared to pay sticker there and a couple of other schools so I was looking at about 204K in COA plus however much interest and origination fees and my undergrad debt's interest and balance. For a little while, I was having small panic attacks about the amount of money I would owe after graduation. But I am certain I would not be satisfied pursuing any other profession and that, combined with the lesser facts that I come from shitty circumstances and there's so much undergrad debt I would have limited options for the next ten years anyway, made the acceptance and choice to take on that debt easier for me at least. There will probably be a lot of people who will tell you you're insane, but if you know what you want to do and know what it is going in, then I think it makes it a lot more bearable and honestly, you probably know what's right for you. Someone telling you you should go and do something else with your life isn't going to be the one going to a job you hate day in day out for the next forty years.

Things I found useful to look into:
1. LRAP of schools. Many of them take into account undergrad student loans when determining your salary for the purposes of LRAP qualification. NYU recently changed theirs in a big way I believe.
2. IBR. This is huge if you can get federal loans. If you do this, you will not contribute more than 10% of your income to paying your student loans. If you get a federal loan consolidation, this will also include your undergrad. So your quality of life will not be that shitty. Also, 10 years in public interest and the remainder is forgiven. Twenty-five years otherwise.
3. Consider asking for need based aid from schools. The consensus on TLS seems to be this is impossible. It wasn't in my experience. I make pretty decent money right now, but wrote a statement on my Need Access report about how much in undergrad loans I have and why I had them. I ended up getting quite a significant sum of need-based aid because of this.

I should add a small qualifier though that if you have hesitation about being a lawyer or you haven't had that much exposure to what you would actually be doing, I would look into that. "Dreams" aside, there's a very frightening reality and taking on the equivalent of a mortgage is still no easy thing. Good luck =)
Last edited by TheStrand on Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mst
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby mst » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:07 pm

If I were you, I'd do DOOK. 225 is more manageable (hell, a TON of people get close to that every year), and I don't know much about either's LRAP but I have to assume that Duke has the edge, despite their 2-tier lrap system. Also, your big-law chances jump quite a bit between duke and ucla... and when your taking on 150k+ in debt... let's be honest: the only realistic ways to pay this down are big law/"mid-law" and LRAP.

Of course I think the best choice is to work off your current debt for 2-3 years but that's just not very feasible or desirable for many people. So go with duke.

300k+ is just unbelievably daunting. That sounds truly terrible.

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stratocophic
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby stratocophic » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:20 pm

well-hello-there wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4

No.

However, you're arguing that 2+2=2 because the first 2 is a sunk cost and shouldn't count.

wait, what are you blithering about?
:?

Try thinking practically about it for a sec and it'll likely come to you

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby yngblkgifted » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:25 pm

OP-
awesome avatar!

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northwood
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby northwood » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:30 pm

OP you should strongly consider postponing law school and paying off your ug debt. You obviously have a fantastic lsat and gpa, so waiting a year or 2 and then reapplying would give you enough time to get work experience and pay off some debt. Even if you manage to pay off 20k you will be better off. If you have to go to school this year- then go to the one that offers the least amount of debt. 300k is an insane amount of debt. 200k is a lot, but much easier tomanage than 300k. If you decide to work then go- schools will understand. When you do apply, apply to more safety schools in a region you would like to work at, and hopefully you will get a full ride ( with no stipulations) best of luck!

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:31 pm

If you choose to work now to pay off your debt rather than pay it off as a Columbia Law graduate, you will undoubtedly have a much harder time. Columbia grads working biglaw make top dollar. Unless your current salary is $160K+, you shouldn't even entertain the notion of working now to pay off your loans.

If you are making $60K per year at your current job, you will give up the opportunity to make an additional ~$100,000 if you decide to wait until 2012 to begin law school.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:33 pm

I am astounded by the large numbers of financially illiterate posters here. Did you all major in pre-law?

AppsAbound
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby AppsAbound » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:35 pm

While I normally am all aboard the "don't freak out you'll pay it off" I am very concerned to suggest that you pay full cost at NYU or Columbia. I personally would not be comfortable starting school with that much debt and would probably wait a year, pay something, anything down, and apply early for scholarships. Also apply for scholarships elsewhere. I say wait. These schools aren't going anywhere.

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:37 pm

stratocophic wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
well-hello-there wrote:arguing that sunk costs should be considered is like arguing 2+2=/=4

No.

However, you're arguing that 2+2=2 because the first 2 is a sunk cost and shouldn't count.

wait, what are you blithering about?
:?

Try thinking practically about it for a sec and it'll likely come to you

mechanical engineering huh...you should be able to figure this one out.

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northwood
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby northwood » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:37 pm

If the OP got into columbia law this cycle, what makes you think he wouldn't get in in the future? Especially if op told them that the reason for deferring was to pay down existing debt? I'm sure they would grant the deferral. Paying down debt before taking on more ( and having interest acrue on the existing debt) is a smart move. Plus op will have more time to figure out what part of the country he/she would be comfortable living and working in. That will help narrow down school choices, and allow for applying to strong regional schools as well ( to get a full scholarship offer)

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:40 pm

AppsAbound wrote:While I normally am all aboard the "don't freak out you'll pay it off" I am very concerned to suggest that you pay full cost at NYU or Columbia. I personally would not be comfortable starting school with that much debt and would probably wait a year, pay something, anything down, and apply early for scholarships. Also apply for scholarships elsewhere. I say wait. These schools aren't going anywhere.

if OP knows that he/she will get ~$100K in scholarships by waiting another year, (assuming he/she is already making $60K per year right now), then waiting another year wouldn't be so hurtful. Except for the fact that OP will be delaying working in his/her presumably dream career. Why would you want to work another year in your current job if your dream job is to be an attorney?

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well-hello-there
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby well-hello-there » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:41 pm

northwood wrote:Paying down debt before taking on more ( and having interest acrue on the existing debt) is a smart move.

um no

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Magnolia
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby Magnolia » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:43 pm

well-hello-there wrote:
AppsAbound wrote:While I normally am all aboard the "don't freak out you'll pay it off" I am very concerned to suggest that you pay full cost at NYU or Columbia. I personally would not be comfortable starting school with that much debt and would probably wait a year, pay something, anything down, and apply early for scholarships. Also apply for scholarships elsewhere. I say wait. These schools aren't going anywhere.

if OP knows that he/she will get ~$100K in scholarships by waiting another year, (assuming he/she is already making $60K per year right now), then waiting another year wouldn't be so hurtful. Except for the fact that OP will be delaying working in his/her presumably dream career. Why would you want to work another year in your current job if your dream job is to be an attorney?

Because it's the logical thing to do. And because part of being an adult is accepting delayed gratification.

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northwood
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Re: Which is the least terrible choice: T6, T14$, T16$$, T25$$$?

Postby northwood » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:48 pm

well-hello-there wrote:
northwood wrote:Paying down debt before taking on more ( and having interest acrue on the existing debt) is a smart move.

um no


we disagree. i however fail to see your reasoning. I also know that i would be very uncomfortable taking on 300k + in debt when i have a chance to pay some of it off. I think thats boarderline financially irresponsible.




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