Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Choose option:

Temple: $13k/year
4
14%
Villanova: free
14
50%
Chicago-Kent: free
10
36%
 
Total votes: 28

morristmm
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:39 pm

Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby morristmm » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:54 pm

Hi everyone, this might seem obvious, but I'd like to hear opinions. Background: I would be happy living/practicing in either Chicago or Philly and I have cheap living arrangements in both cities. I'd like Big-law as a realistic option but am not set on it. My GPA was 3.9 and my LSAT was 168.

Here are my options:

Temple Beasley: In-state (18k) - 5k scholly renewable = 13k
Villanova: Full-ride
Chicago-Kent: Full-ride

Again, this seems pretty obvious but I'm wondering if the recent Nova scandal should give me any pause...Thanks for any opinions.

morristmm
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:39 pm

Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby morristmm » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:55 pm

Also...I know Temple's being stingy and "should have" offered me more. I'm still arguing with them about it, but let's assume they hold their current position.

stayway
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby stayway » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:00 am

I'm currently a Nova 1L and biglaw firms that I interviewed with (two people from Fox Rothschild, one from Dechert, one from Dilworth Paxson (CB), and in-house at Statefarm) didn't seem to care at all about the scandal. However, they did ask me what my perspective on it was. Dilworth for example told me, it wasn't a surprise for them because law schools fake data all the time (we ended up talking about how deceiving GULC's employment stats were).

However, there are a few students I've met that didn't take the scandal so lightly. But IMO, the scandal won't really have an impact in the Philly market.

Nova has been great so far for me. The new building and dean are awesome. I highly recommend you visit.

Discretion: I got dinged from all the interviews. But I still landed an international biglaw gig.

Hope this helped.

Edit:

I'm not sure if the firms listed above are considered "biglaw" to you. Also you probably need to be top 15% to get a "biglaw" gig in philly.

Edit2:

Forgot to add Pepper Hamilton. They have an exclusive program to Nova's 1Ls. I believe they are considered "biglaw."
Last edited by stayway on Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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bk1
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:07 am

Biglaw isn't a realistic option from any of those schools.

They aren't horrible offers since they are basically free but you should give up on biglaw if you go to any of them. Any stipulations on those schollies? Any preference between Chicago and Philly?

stayway
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby stayway » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:13 am

bk1 wrote:Biglaw isn't a realistic option from any of those schools.


When you say "biglaw" do you mean 160k+? I believe Dechert and Fox Rothschild pays 150k-ish. Dilworth pays around 135k.

Oh and my friend got a 1L SA gig with Stradly Ronon (i think they are biglaw too).

carrier
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby carrier » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:15 am

Chicago-Kent is a nice option but I think the consideration here is relative value of each school in its respective market, which eliminates C-K.

Chicago is a destination city and Philly is not, which is a boon for those of us who know and love Philly. Temple and Villanova are pseudo-top dogs in the market, as Penn students look to NYC and DC and law firms are leery of investing in someone who might jump ship in a couple years. Other T14 schools will show up and compete for elite positions, but Temple and 'Nova will always have established pipelines.

Chicago-Kent sits well behind Northwestern and UChicago, and is on par with DePaul and Loyola. Michigan, WUSTL, ND, UIUC and others have it as a primary destination.

I'd go with Villanova unless the stipulation seems stringent and you are able to get more money out of Temple (you should be able to). Admissions at 'Nova should be able to tell you the scholarship retention rate.

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bk1
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:22 am

nooyyllib wrote:
bk1 wrote:Biglaw isn't a realistic option from any of those schools.


When you say "biglaw" do you mean 160k+? I believe Dechert and Fox Rothschild pays 150k-ish. Dilworth pays around 135k.

Oh and my friend got a 1L SA gig with Stradly Ronon (i think they are biglaw too).


Biglaw means different things to different people. Some say NLJ250, some say anything 100k+, some say firms that pay the market rate for a given area. I'd say that biglaw, and what I meant above, is firms that pay the market rate or close to it (market rate is 160k in Chicago but I could be okay with classifying biglaw as 130k+).

You can get biglaw out of these schools but considering only 5-10% of the class is getting it, it is foolish to even think this is a likely option for after graduation. When you aren't getting something 9 times out of 10, you should act like it doesn't exist.

stayway
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby stayway » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:45 am

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

(I think this is the most recent one)

NLJ 250 firms

Nova: 16.7%

Temple: 16.2%

Chicago-Kent: 13.2%

There, that should make your decision easier.

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bk1
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:45 am

nooyyllib wrote:http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf

(I think this is the most recent one)

NLJ 250 firms

Nova: 16.7%

Temple: 16.2%

Chicago-Kent: 13.2%

There, that should make your decision easier.


How does that make the decision easier?

stayway
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby stayway » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:47 am

bk1 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf

(I think this is the most recent one)

NLJ 250 firms

Nova: 16.7%

Temple: 16.2%

Chicago-Kent: 13.2%

There, that should make your decision easier.


How does that make the decision easier?


Placement rates? At least it gives the OP a ball park of the probability of getting a biglaw (assuming it is NLJ 250).

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am

bk1 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf

(I think this is the most recent one)

NLJ 250 firms

Nova: 16.7%

Temple: 16.2%

Chicago-Kent: 13.2%

There, that should make your decision easier.


How does that make the decision easier?

A subtle way of saying retake?

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bk1
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:48 am

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
bk1 wrote:
nooyyllib wrote:http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf

(I think this is the most recent one)

NLJ 250 firms

Nova: 16.7%

Temple: 16.2%

Chicago-Kent: 13.2%

There, that should make your decision easier.


How does that make the decision easier?

A subtle way of saying retake?


If so, I approve.

stayway
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby stayway » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:49 am

MrPapagiorgio wrote:A subtle way of saying retake?


haha, yeah that could be an option.

I'm just trying to provide the OP with insight regarding the school he/she is asking about.

morristmm
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:39 pm

Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby morristmm » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:13 am

bk1 wrote:Biglaw isn't a realistic option from any of those schools.

They aren't horrible offers since they are basically free but you should give up on biglaw if you go to any of them. Any stipulations on those schollies? Any preference between Chicago and Philly?


When I say "big law" I don't mean the absolute biggest and most high paying legal positions in the world; I just mean a big enough firm that a lot of the transactions are international and the firm has offices in most major cities. I'd like to start above 120k/year but I'm not interested in logging 2200 billables, etc.

HeavenWood
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:15 am

Villanova for Philly, Kent for Chicago. All you have to do is decide which city you like more.

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2things2
Posts: 183
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Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby 2things2 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:01 pm

morristmm wrote:Hi everyone, this might seem obvious, but I'd like to hear opinions. Background: I would be happy living/practicing in either Chicago or Philly and I have cheap living arrangements in both cities. I'd like Big-law as a realistic option but am not set on it. My GPA was 3.9 and my LSAT was 168.

Here are my options:

Temple Beasley: In-state (18k) - 5k scholly renewable = 13k
Villanova: Full-ride
Chicago-Kent: Full-ride

Again, this seems pretty obvious but I'm wondering if the recent Nova scandal should give me any pause...Thanks for any opinions.

If you haven't thought about retaking, or at the very least reapplying, you should. Not to say that these are bad options, but dude you have a 3.9 and a 168. T-13 should be right around the corner for you.

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bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Villanova vs. Temple vs. Chicago Kent

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:34 pm

morristmm wrote:
bk1 wrote:Biglaw isn't a realistic option from any of those schools.

They aren't horrible offers since they are basically free but you should give up on biglaw if you go to any of them. Any stipulations on those schollies? Any preference between Chicago and Philly?


When I say "big law" I don't mean the absolute biggest and most high paying legal positions in the world; I just mean a big enough firm that a lot of the transactions are international and the firm has offices in most major cities. I'd like to start above 120k/year but I'm not interested in logging 2200 billables, etc.

The jobs you are referring to are still far out of reach for the grads from these schools.




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