Where should I go??!!! YOU BE THE JUDGE! Forum

[NorCalBruin]

New poll now that cycle is pretty much over.

Notes:
--Ability to get a job is my number one priority, obviously.
--Not positive what type of law I’d like to practice, but I would at least like the opportunity to practice Big Law.
--Not sure where I want to practice. I’m pretty flexible, but would like to keep my options open.
--Quality of life is important to me. Weather is not super essential to me (prefer warm, but can manage cold). Having nice, idyllic facilities and being in an area with a lot of “outdoorsy” things to do and some culture are the most paramount.

[patrickd139]

Where are you from? Do you want east coast practice opportunities? How debt averse are you?

[swc65]

Gratz on some really great options! Enjoy Ithaca!!!! It aint all that bad, actually.

There is a ton of outdoorsy stuff to do there, I mean a TON. There isn't all that much culture, unless you count the farmers market. However, as a first year, you will be studying all the time anyway. As an upper classperson, you can just hop on a bus to the city for the weekend! (or, go to Syracuse, but I hate that place). There are some visiting art exhibits at the museum on campus every now and again, but usually nothing too special. Campus life is pretty great too. It is a large school, but you can get to know everyone pretty quickly. Anyway, I loved it while I was there (except for the constant snow, of course).

[bhan87]

Imo, Gtown should not even be considered. It will be cheaper to go to Cornell AND they have better employment placement (partially due to the loyal alumni network and small class size). Texas should also be considered if you want to live / work in Texas, but if you don't then Cornell seems like the clear winner.

[akili]

Cornell. I hear it's gorges.

Unless you want to work in Texas.

[ndirish2010]

Cornell FTW.

[DeeCee]

Cornell FTW.

this.

[NorCalBruin]

Thanks for the responses so far!

Where are you from? Do you want east coast practice opportunities? How debt averse are you?

--I'm from the West Coast, went to UCLA undergrad.
--I would like east coast opportunities, but I just want portability more than anything. In other words, I'm pretty open.
--I'm only moderately debt adverse. I currently have no debt (including no undergrad debt), but obviously I know that it's better to graduate with less debt than more!

[bhan87]

Thanks for the responses so far!

Where are you from? Do you want east coast practice opportunities? How debt averse are you?

--I'm from the West Coast, went to UCLA undergrad.
--I would like east coast opportunities, but I just want portability more than anything. In other words, I'm pretty open.
--I'm only moderately debt adverse. I currently have no debt (including no undergrad debt), but obviously I know that it's better to graduate with less debt than more!

If you're looking for portability plus less debt, then Cornell is the clear winner!

Enjoy Ithaca!

[Saul Goodman]

My name is Judge. Go to the only T13 school on that list.

Also, to the one person who voted GeorgeTTTown, WTF? Why pay more for less?

[AreJay711]

I actually think Texas. It is reasonably portable, geographically close to Cali (idk if that makes it better there or not), it is warm, has a decent chance for biglaw but the low COL makes it not a requirement, and it is the cheapest. That is just my take on it though.

[bhan87]

My name is Judge. Go to the only T13 school on that list.

Also, to the one person who voted GeorgeTTTown, WTF? Why pay more for less?

Or why pay double for the same? Texas is T14 too

[vanwinkle]

I voted Texas. Here's why:

1) Lower total cost of attendance. $45k total cheaper? Sounds good to me.

2) More options. OP is from the West Coast and goes to UCLA, so he already has ties there and doesn't need to go to a West Coast school to have a chance at going back there. Being at UT should give him a shot in the Texas markets when he graduates, and Dallas/Houston are fairly strong job markets right now.

That really gives OP access to three markets from UT: West Coast, Texas, and NYC. Why NYC? Because firms there hire from all the top schools nationwide, and don't care if you've never lived there before. If you tell them you want to work there because NYC is where the best legal work is, that's acceptable enough. The difference between Cornell and UT is not that substantial; Cornell places more into NYC than UT does, but a good chunk of that is self-selection.

UT can place people into NYC, but Cornell doesn't place anyone into Texas unless they're from there. So OP really has access to 3 markets from UT, and only 2 from Cornell.

3) Cornell's advantages over UT aren't that large. Yes, it's Ivy League, and it's regarded as a better school, but it's not a huge difference. We're not talking a difference between UT and HYS here. Cornell will have slightly better placement in NYC, meaning you can get a job there with slightly worse grades than you could at UT. However, I don't think it's a big enough difference to be worth both $45K more and the difference in quality of live for 3 years, which brings me to my last point:

4) Climate/QOL. Austin wins this one hands-down.

I'm a firm believer that you do better if you're happier and more comfortable. Someone who lived in LA or anywhere else along the West Coast is probably not going to enjoy the bitter cold winters in Ithaca very much. Austin has much more moderate weather year-round, with extremely little snowfall and long, pleasant spring and fall seasons.

Plus, it's a fun place to live, with far more to offer than Ithaca in terms of things to do outside of the law school. There are large parks, hike/bike trails, regular art fairs and festivals, and of course live music playing every night of the week in "the live music capital of the world". You can snag free tickets to a taping of Austin City Limits, check out new bands at SXSW, see the occasional movie premiere at the Paramount, or have a beer while you watch screenings of your favorite films at the Alamo Drafthouse.

Someone who says they "prefer warm" and want "outdoorsy" would love the hell out of Austin, and possibly be miserable through the long winters in Ithaca. I cannot understand why so many people are voting for Cornell over UT here. I suspect it's prestige-whoring and just voting for the highest-ranked school, and IMO making a decision that simplistically would be a mistake.

[ahduth]

My name is Judge. Go to the only T13 school on that list.

Also, to the one person who voted GeorgeTTTown, WTF? Why pay more for less?

The GULC vote is awesome. I'd vote for it again, but I already voted Cornell.

I mean... I hear the UT arguments, and it certainly wouldn't end up being a bad choice. I just gave Cornell the edge in placement due to their NYC connection. Getting a job is pretty paramount in the end.

[NorCalBruin]

Damn Vanwinkle, thanks for the extremely thorough (and I might add fairly convincing) reply.

I'm flying out to Austin in a week, followed by Ithaca for Cornell's ASW. If anyone has any "must see" or "must do" things at either, I'm all ears. You know, things that really give a true sense of a place.

[swc65]

Damn Vanwinkle, thanks for the extremely thorough (and I might add fairly convincing) reply.

I'm flying out to Austin in a week, followed by Ithaca for Cornell's ASW. If anyone has any "must see" or "must do" things at either, I'm all ears. You know, things that really give a true sense of a place.

TBF Cornell has a pretty good weather machine. They always turn it on during ASW and during Parent's day for the undergrads. I would not be surprised if the weather there is awesome during ASW, just don't let it fool you.

[vanwinkle]

Damn Vanwinkle, thanks for the extremely thorough (and I might add fairly convincing) reply.

I'm flying out to Austin in a week, followed by Ithaca for Cornell's ASW. If anyone has any "must see" or "must do" things at either, I'm all ears. You know, things that really give a true sense of a place.

Given your interest in outdoorsy things, you need to check out Zilker Park and the Lady Bird Lake Trail. Zilker Park is a huge 350-acre park with museums and an arboretum and space to host several outdoor fairs and events, including the annual Austin City Limits Music Festival. The trail runs along the south side of Lady Bird Lake, and you get scenic views of downtown Austin on the north side. If you go at dusk in the spring, you can watch the nightly exodus of bats that sleep underneath the Congress Avenue Bridge during the day.

You should also look up the Alamo Drafthouse. Seriously, that place will change the way you think about moviegoing. Its biggest drawback is that you really miss the place if you ever leave.

Look up 6th Street and all the bars and clubs with nightly live music. Live shows every night of the week, seriously.

Stubbs BBQ has pretty good food, but the real draw is their outdoor stage. In terms of convert venues it's not large (2,000-person at most) but they attract artists that normally play much larger spaces. I remember U2 played there while I was in undergrad. Coldplay stopped there on a couple of tours. Metallica did a surprise concert there during SXSW a couple years back. I see Weezer is playing there soon. Stubbs is an Austin icon.

Though if you have a car and want unforgettable barbecue, you should drive to Lockhart and try Cooper's or, even better, Salt Lick. It's worth the drive. I know people who moved to NY, and every time they visit Texas they pick up a bunch of smoked meat and sausage to take back with them. It's that good.

[lisjjen]

Damn Vanwinkle, thanks for the extremely thorough (and I might add fairly convincing) reply.

I'm flying out to Austin in a week, followed by Ithaca for Cornell's ASW. If anyone has any "must see" or "must do" things at either, I'm all ears. You know, things that really give a true sense of a place.

I'm flying back out from the UT ASD tomorrow morning. I would highly recommend visiting

a) The Salt Lick - omg. just omg.
b) 6th St - they block the streets off on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and it turns into Mardi Gras every weekend.
c) South Congress, or weird Austin - there's a ton of tiny hole in the wall shops and restaurants with weird art and food. Just awesome.

Before I went, I was trying to decide between taking the money at UT or going for prestige at UMich. But in one weekend, I have absolutely fallen in love with the city. I'm also quite impressed with the school.

[JamMasterJ]

My cousing is a major outdoorsy type and thought Ithaca was incredible. Coming from a pretty-anti Ivy type, this is high praise. Also, Cornell killed BigLaw last year. At this point I think Cornell and Texas are your top choices and if you have a preference between Texas and NYC post-graduation, pick that one. The two have fairly similar reps outside of those two locales.

[Arbiter213]

Make sure to see the falls in Ithaca, as well as the Gorges. If you have a car, go to see Sapsucker Woods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornell_Lab_of_Ornithology).

The farmer's market wont be open, but walk around the commons. Ithaca is livable, but anyone who tells you it's comparable in any way to Austin is lying. If you like Austin a ton, you can't really go wrong with UT.

[barry]

Cornell is the obvious choice

I think Van Winkle's UT argument has some great points but i do think the difference in Big law placement between Cornell and UT is big enough to give Cornell the W in this situation

[The Stig]

Damn Vanwinkle, thanks for the extremely thorough (and I might add fairly convincing) reply.

I'm flying out to Austin in a week, followed by Ithaca for Cornell's ASW. If anyone has any "must see" or "must do" things at either, I'm all ears. You know, things that really give a true sense of a place.

I vote you go to the one you like better between UT and Cornell. I assume they each have a different vibe, and I think you should go to the one at which you see yourself enjoying the next 3 years.

[lisjjen]

Make sure to see the falls in Ithaca, as well as the Gorges. If you have a car, go to see Sapsucker Woods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornell_Lab_of_Ornithology).

The farmer's market wont be open, but walk around the commons. Ithaca is livable, but anyone who tells you it's comparable in any way to Austin is lying. If you like Austin a ton, you can't really go wrong with UT.

I went to a farmer's market in Austin today.

'nuf said.

ETA: (but I agree with the other posters. You should visit each)

[Arbiter213]

Make sure to see the falls in Ithaca, as well as the Gorges. If you have a car, go to see Sapsucker Woods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornell_Lab_of_Ornithology).

The farmer's market wont be open, but walk around the commons. Ithaca is livable, but anyone who tells you it's comparable in any way to Austin is lying. If you like Austin a ton, you can't really go wrong with UT.

I went to a farmer's market in Austin today.

'nuf said.

ETA: (but I agree with the other posters. You should visit each)

TBF, the Ithaca farmer's market is pretty unique. More like a hippy arts fair than a place with a bunch of guys in overalls selling sweet corn (not that that's not awesome too).

[lisjjen]

TBF, the Ithaca farmer's market is pretty unique. More like a hippy arts fair than a place with a bunch of guys in overalls selling sweet corn (not that that's not awesome too).

Looks like somebody has never been to Austin.

I saw some shops that sold cowboy boots, but they did so ironically. Also saw a couple of American Apparels, organic food stores and open air arts and crafts markets, but nobody in overalls. Also, I went with a Berkeley grad who said that the whole South Congress neighborhood was almost exactly like the hippie parts of San Fran.