Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

University of Minnesota
60
66%
Lewis and Clark
24
26%
Brooklyn Law School
7
8%
 
Total votes: 91

jkay
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby jkay » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:58 pm

The one thing about Lewis and Clark is that you can say you go to the Northwestern School of Law.

I vote UMN.

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Tim0thy222
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby Tim0thy222 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:56 pm

geoduck wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
geoduck wrote:
chasgoose wrote:I voted Lewis and Clark, Minnesota is higher ranked, but not high enough to make getting out of the Midwest easy. Minneapolis isn't terrible, but I would much rather be stuck in Portland for the rest of my life than be stuck in Minneapolis. BLS shouldn't even be on the table at this point. NYC is a way over-saturated market and BLS won't really help you anywhere else. At least Lewis and Clark/Minnesota are the best law schools in their markets.


You don't think #20 is high enough to get out of The Midwest? Weird... Enough UMN grads take the NY bar that it's on their ABA data and they place 12% in big law. Also, apparently a lot of top 20 grads from the Pacific NW like going home and competing for those Portland jobs.

He did say it wouldn't be easy, not impossible.


That's true, but I've been starting to question how much L&C owns their market after some recent posts and after being told by the school directly that if I went there, I couldn't rely on getting a job in Portland. That makes the 47 point difference in rank a little clearer to me, especially as a PNW resident who went to undergrad here. Makes it pretty easy to go back home.


That's interesting that someone at L&C told you that. Was it the dean in his talk, or was it more of an informal thing? I had an informal conversation with a professor/director of a program during the lunch at L&C's ASW (I don't want to specify too much and get someone in trouble), and when I told her I was accepted at UMN she said "that is a very good school, you should really take a look at it." So there it was, a heavy hitter at L&C, implying that I shouldn't go to L&C.

EDIT: I would also like to note, that this sort of honesty was consistently the exceptional experience I had at L&C. I was absolutely blown away by the professors, dean, admissions people, and pretty much everyone but the students :?

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ahduth
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby ahduth » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:59 pm

dpk711 wrote:Just don't go to Brooklyn. I voted for UMN.


+1. I can't actually really say much about L&C versus UMN. The Twin Cities are actually supposed to be pretty great though, aside from asinine amounts of snow.

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geoduck
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby geoduck » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:06 pm

Tim0thy222 wrote:
geoduck wrote:
That's true, but I've been starting to question how much L&C owns their market after some recent posts and after being told by the school directly that if I went there, I couldn't rely on getting a job in Portland. That makes the 47 point difference in rank a little clearer to me, especially as a PNW resident who went to undergrad here. Makes it pretty easy to go back home.


That's interesting that someone at L&C told you that. Was it the dean in his talk, or was it more of an informal thing? I had an informal conversation with a professor/director of a program during the lunch at L&C's ASW (I don't want to specify too much and get someone in trouble), and when I told her I was accepted at UMN she said "that is a very good school, you should really take a look at it." So there it was, a heavy hitter at L&C, implying that I shouldn't go to L&C.


It was several people... Including the career services panel that they had us sit through. I found it really amusing since they were up there telling us that you have to be willing to look outside of Portland or even Oregon, which is exactly the inverse of TLS hive mind.

You got accepted to UMN on the day before the admitted students day, yeah? I definitely don't mean to diss L&C. It's a good school and very obviously the best in Oregon and 2nd in the PNW for placement... But UMN is a public ivy that is the best in it's state and among the best in the country. I know my odds of going to L&C went down quite a bit when I got my UMN offer. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up classmates.

tropicalpeach
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby tropicalpeach » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:41 pm

I definitely vote umn. I talked to the assistant dean extensively about my chances of making it to California after ls. Umn has oci's in three cities outside of Minnesota: NYC, dc, and sf. They are open to anyone, not just the top ten. Of course, the firms have to be interested in you, but at least there's a chance and a relationship bw umn and sf. I'm going to take that chance. I think it's a really good school that's looked upon favorably, even outside of the Midwest.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:09 pm

Minnesota is an awesome school. Academicly and prestige-wise, I would choose it. However, for the Liberal and poor Lewis and Clark is also solid. You seem like a fit there. Don't pick BLS. The other schools corner their markets while BLS grads are fighting against much stronger schools' grads in the same city and about half the damn graduating class in the country to boot.

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Magnolia
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby Magnolia » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:23 pm

I vote for UMN. With ties, you should be able to get back to the PNW, assuming you do well (though you'll need to do well at either UMN or L&C to get a job, so it's sort of irrelevant for this discussion). You may also have a slight advantage in Portland and the surrounding areas since you'll be in the minority applying as a non-L&C/UW grad. That novelty could be to your benefit, depending on the job. UMN will also give you better options/have more portability if you decide the PNW isn't where you want to be after all.

And no matter what, please please please don't go to BLS.

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beaverfuzz
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby beaverfuzz » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:06 am

Late to the party, but I worked as a paralegal in Portland before going to law school and have researched the Portland market pretty extensively. Lewis & Clark owns the Portland "Biglaw" market, at least in terms of local schools.

If you are interested in working in Portland, graduating with honors at L&C probably gives you your best shot outside of a T10.

Check out this website for a breakdown of the composition by school of 2011 Portland summers: --LinkRemoved--

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20160810
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby 20160810 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:19 am

UMN is so, so, so much better than the other schools that there's just no way I could recommend anything else.

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Tim0thy222
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby Tim0thy222 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:13 pm

beaverfuzz wrote:Late to the party, but I worked as a paralegal in Portland before going to law school and have researched the Portland market pretty extensively. Lewis & Clark owns the Portland "Biglaw" market, at least in terms of local schools.

If you are interested in working in Portland, graduating with honors at L&C probably gives you your best shot outside of a T10.

Check out this website for a breakdown of the composition by school of 2011 Portland summers: --LinkRemoved--


Actually the UMN seat deposit is due Friday, so you arrived at the party just in time for last call! Thank you for the insight, it's very helpful. I don't doubt that if I graduate top of my class at L&C I can get a job in portland, but how about middle of the class? Is there much of a legal market outside of "biglaw"? Maybe small to midsized firms or PI firms? I plan on working hard and doing well, but I have to consider what happens if I end up in the middle.

Also, just curious, are you headed to L&C or another law school? Or are you already in school?

Case2L
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby Case2L » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:26 pm

From personal experience I know there are a lot of Minnesota grads working in the Pacific Northwest. If you want to work in, say, Seattle, I think UMN is the best bet out of the three law schools you listed.

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beaverfuzz
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby beaverfuzz » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:26 pm

Tim0thy222 wrote:
beaverfuzz wrote:Late to the party, but I worked as a paralegal in Portland before going to law school and have researched the Portland market pretty extensively. Lewis & Clark owns the Portland "Biglaw" market, at least in terms of local schools.

If you are interested in working in Portland, graduating with honors at L&C probably gives you your best shot outside of a T10.

Check out this website for a breakdown of the composition by school of 2011 Portland summers: --LinkRemoved--


Actually the UMN seat deposit is due Friday, so you arrived at the party just in time for last call! Thank you for the insight, it's very helpful. I don't doubt that if I graduate top of my class at L&C I can get a job in portland, but how about middle of the class? Is there much of a legal market outside of "biglaw"? Maybe small to midsized firms or PI firms? I plan on working hard and doing well, but I have to consider what happens if I end up in the middle.

Also, just curious, are you headed to L&C or another law school? Or are you already in school?


Deadlines looming! I remember being where you are; it is an exciting time for sure. Whatever decision you make, just know that it is the best you could make with the information available at the time. As for me, I am a 3L and did not go to L&C. I interviewed in both Portland and Seattle during OCI and ended up at a NALP firm in Seattle.

The Portland market is saturated with L&C grads on every level. Many smaller firms hire law clerks during the school year with the option of post-graduation employment, and L&C students are the only ones for which these positions are usually feasible.

Regarding the NW in general, I would caution you two things. First, the legal hiring is still low overall, although it is showing some signs of life this year. The region was late to feel the effects of ITE (housing, for example, was still booming in many parts through early 2009), and likewise it will probably be one of the last areas to recover fully. Seattle, although faring slightly better than Portland, is still reluctant to hire.

Second, people in the NW are generally suspicious of "outsiders" and their hiring practices reflect this. Their fear stems from spending too much money on summer associates and young associates, only to have them leave for sunnier climates after the first few dreary winters. Even though I went to undergrad in Oregon, interviewers--far more than anything else--asked me about my commitment to the region because I attend an out-of-state law school.

For a job in Portland or Seattle, I think that a candidate at the median at a NW school will fare better than someone at the median at Minnesota with no NW connections, especially since the former has the opportunity to network through local functions, CLEs, etc. The calculus changes if you have a meaningful connection to the region.

If you are dead set on working in the NW, I think L&C is your best bet on balance. But if you are not fully committed, I would take the degree with the most portability, and that answer is obviously Minnesota.

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Tim0thy222
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby Tim0thy222 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:43 pm

Just thought I'd let everyone know I put down my seat deposit for Minnesota. It is such a superior school in every way, that I finally had to come to terms with the fact that I'll be living in the midwest.

Thank you everyone for your input, and good luck on your law school journeys!

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patrickd139
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Re: Help me, TLS, you're my only hope.

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:22 am

Tim0thy222 wrote:Just thought I'd let everyone know I put down my seat deposit for Minnesota. It is such a superior school in every way, that I finally had to come to terms with the fact that I'll be living in the midwest.

Thank you everyone for your input, and good luck on your law school journeys!

I think you made the right choice, though don't hesitate to defer and retake/reapply if you think you can significantly improve. GL!




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