Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

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ExpectLess
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Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby ExpectLess » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:20 am

I wanted to wait until closer to the end of the cycle, but seeing as some scholarship deadlines are quickly approaching, I figured I would ask for feedback. I originally had a lower 170s LSAT and a 4.0x, and applied in the fall. I'm in at most everywhere but HSY and Columbia, which are all still pending. BUT, I retook in February and scored in the very high 170s.

The problem is, many of my scholarship offers have already come in from Chicago down, and while they're open to reconsideration, I'm not sure there are Rubys and whatnot left to be had. Harvard and Columbia "added" the new score to my file, but considering I'm held at both, I have no idea when or if anyone is going to re-review the file, and I certainly doubt any Hamiltons are saved for the held people. Stanford says they won't look at February scores for this cycle, and Yale gave me a cryptic "we're not going to completely re-review the file, but the new score may or may not get looked at."

My question is, at what point do I take an offer this year versus reapply next year? I think I have decent softs, as I had a JR1 a long time ago (and considering just how long ago, I think I'm destined for a WL at this point) and am still alive at Yale, both from the old score. I worked hard for my new score, however, and it would be a shame to throw it away because it was too late to impact my cycle, especially because I can't imagine there are too many applicants any given year with the same numbers. On the other hand, there's no guarantee how much better I'd fare next cycle, as HSY can be unpredictable, and I clearly didn't stand out enough to be admitted with my old score.

I ideally want either a clerkship, government, or PI. This also makes me think that $ isn't as big of a deal, as the LRAPs of the top schools are good enough that it might be worth taking sticker at HSY over scholarships at CCN or lower. I'd also like to ultimately end up in California.

A final consideration is that I've already been out of school for a while, so I'm definitely averse to waiting another year, although staying at my current job is possible.

So, what should I hold out for?
Last edited by ExpectLess on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Knock
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby Knock » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:21 am

With your new LSAT, i'd definitely wait another year (barring getting one of HYS this cycle, which is still possible). It's a short time in the scheme of things and you should get at least one of HYS/Hamilton/Ruby if you reappply early next year.

ETA: Law schools apps might go down too next year.
Last edited by Knock on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

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hokie
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby hokie » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:24 am

agreed - I would hold off a year, polish your apps, work/volunteer/do-stuff-you-won't-get-a-chance-to-do-after-law-school, then apply super early next cycle and profit.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:14 pm

With those numbers I would not settle for anything less than a t13 full ride or a HYS acceptance. If you apply widely and personalize your apps when necessary (Michigan, Virginia etc.) you are practically guaranteed Harvard and have a great shot at the Hamilton or a Rubenstein (or Darrow etc.) - all of which will set you up very nicely long-term. But I wouldn't be surprised if you hear from one of HYS this cycle.

Good luck and enjoy the 12 months before law school.

trudat15
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby trudat15 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:17 pm

I think you'll know your answer when you hear back from HYS this cycle.

Casey2889
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby Casey2889 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:34 pm

YSH look beyond numbers. if you got JR1 and no JR2, it's not your LSAT score that's keeping you out there, and probably (if you don't get any of them in the end) Y or S as well....

what is your UG/program? a 4.0 at an ivy or elite UG =/= 4.0 at a top 50 school, let alone a TTT UG. what are the softs to which you refer?

an application next cycle will get you into Columbia with Butler/Hamilton $$, but if Y/H don't bite this year (knowing that they are ultimately subjective humans who will encounter your new LSAT and know they can report it) i wouldn't expect YSH next year either.

Chicago is an excellent destination for aspiring clerks if that's your best option after this year.

Ghost
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby Ghost » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:40 pm

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Last edited by Ghost on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ExpectLess
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby ExpectLess » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:08 pm

Casey2889 wrote:YSH look beyond numbers. if you got JR1 and no JR2, it's not your LSAT score that's keeping you out there, and probably (if you don't get any of them in the end) Y or S as well....

what is your UG/program? a 4.0 at an ivy or elite UG =/= 4.0 at a top 50 school, let alone a TTT UG. what are the softs to which you refer?

an application next cycle will get you into Columbia with Butler/Hamilton $$, but if Y/H don't bite this year (knowing that they are ultimately subjective humans who will encounter your new LSAT and know they can report it) i wouldn't expect YSH next year either.

Chicago is an excellent destination for aspiring clerks if that's your best option after this year.


T50 UG, somewhat prestigious WE post-UG, leadership/internships in college, couple publications. The usual decent softs. I got a half ride to Chicago with my old score, full ride at NU, and about 3/4 at UVA, so I think I have an alright application. The fact that I survived until this long at Yale with a lower 170s makes me think that, too.

If Chicago bumps up their scholarship (which I think they will based off of talking to them), I'm thinking about going this year. Even if I don't get a Ruby, it wouldn't be worth waiting around another year for an extra 30k in scholarships, I guess? Would the prospects from Chicago really be that different from HSY?

Also, presumably someone at Harvard and Yale will have looked at my new score eventually this cycle? I'm not sure it's worth waiting a year if someone glanced at it this year. Stanford not considering February scores is disappointing though, as it was my original dream school.

Thanks for the feedback so far. :)

ExpectLess
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby ExpectLess » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:32 pm

Casey2889 wrote:if you got JR1 and no JR2, it's not your LSAT score that's keeping you out there


And speaking of this, I actually thought that because I was competitive enough for a JR1 before, as soon as they got my new score it'd be a JR2 the next Monday. A few have since gone by. :oops:

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suspicious android
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby suspicious android » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:21 am

Was your old LSAT below H & Y's median? If so, I would be sorely tempted to reapply, especially if you are enjoying life and can find something to do that will make you happy in the intervening year. However, I've put off law school for like six years now, so I'm probably not a good source of advice here.

Also, with a 4.0+ and 170's, no HYS acceptance? You might want to take a hard look at your application, see if there's something that is off putting.

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yuzu
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby yuzu » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:00 am

I was in a somewhat similar situation two years ago and my more recent cycle has gone far better. That said, my score difference looks a little larger than yours. And I had applied late, in a rush, and have improved my application in numerous other ways since then.

As for your interest in Stanford, I have a few anecdotes for what they're worth - when I spoke with a Stanford representative in April '09 she seemed to think that the 170 was not a big problem with my application ("hey, it's median"), and another Stanford person I spoke with at the DC forums later that year mentioned that it's bad to retake if you already have 174 or greater. They also told me that they are adamant that reapplicants have substantial changes in their application from prior cycles. And, as they still haven't given me an answer this cycle, I'm not sure that I will do any better at Stanford this time around.

But other schools (Harvard and Columbia in particular) are much more numbers focused, and I think this can get you Harvard if you want to wait a year.

ExpectLess
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby ExpectLess » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:17 am

suspicious android wrote:Was your old LSAT below H & Y's median? If so, I would be sorely tempted to reapply, especially if you are enjoying life and can find something to do that will make you happy in the intervening year. However, I've put off law school for like six years now, so I'm probably not a good source of advice here.

Also, with a 4.0+ and 170's, no HYS acceptance? You might want to take a hard look at your application, see if there's something that is off putting.


Yes, the first was below H & Y's median. :? I don't think I'd be in this predicament if it was at/above.

My PS might be mildly risky in its content, but I put time and effort into refining it into something that wouldn't be off putting. Considering I'm in everywhere from Chicago down (except WL at Michigan, for which I wrote a half-hearted "Why X", and WL at Berkeley) with scholarships that are at or above those of others with similar numbers, I don't think I did anything too wrong. :?:

ExpectLess
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby ExpectLess » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:25 am

yuzu wrote:I was in a somewhat similar situation two years ago and my more recent cycle has gone far better. That said, my score difference looks a little larger than yours. And I had applied late, in a rush, and have improved my application in numerous other ways since then.

As for your interest in Stanford, I have a few anecdotes for what they're worth - when I spoke with a Stanford representative in April '09 she seemed to think that the 170 was not a big problem with my application ("hey, it's median"), and another Stanford person I spoke with at the DC forums later that year mentioned that it's bad to retake if you already have 174 or greater. They also told me that they are adamant that reapplicants have substantial changes in their application from prior cycles. And, as they still haven't given me an answer this cycle, I'm not sure that I will do any better at Stanford this time around.

But other schools (Harvard and Columbia in particular) are much more numbers focused, and I think this can get you Harvard if you want to wait a year.


Thanks for your input, and congrats on the Butler and H. :) I've pretty much thrown in the towel on Stanford for this year anyway. That seems odd about them looking down on retaking a 174. If someone consistently PTed higher and knows they could do better, why wouldn't they?

But this makes me think even more that I should reapply next year, but I really, really, really don't want to. :?

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yuzu
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Re: Hold out for HSY/Hamilton/Ruby next year?

Postby yuzu » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:06 am

ExpectLess wrote: That seems odd about them looking down on retaking a 174. If someone consistently PTed higher and knows they could do better, why wouldn't they?


The way I understood it was that from Stanford's point of view it's all the same above their 75th percentile, so it wouldn't help your application, and since there's a risk of doing worse, it would be taking a risk with no benefit.




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