Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

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mrtoren
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby mrtoren » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:22 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:There is no right or wrong, its just where we differ. To me going to a T2 that does not dominate its own market and has competition for 6 figures in debt is not something I would advise anyone to do. Just IMO of course.

I can respect that.

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Justathought
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Justathought » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:27 pm

MrAnon wrote:
mrtoren wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I didnt say your numbers were inaccurate, you just didnt answer the question: Are you honestly advocating that 110k + interest from Newark is a good investment?

Is ideal? Obviously not...free scholarship money is always a good thing. However, I honestly don't think its a bad investment. As has been stated, the school places the second highest number of judicial clerkships behind Yale. The New Jersey market is not NYC, Boston or Philly, but like any metropolitan area, it has a lot of opportunities. Some graduates will also successfully migrate to Philly or NYC or other surrounding areas. In any event, as an aspiring prosecutor and current intern at a State's Attorney's Office, Rutgers offers a great program to get people like me into the field. I'm looking forward to applying in the near future.


You realize it places the second highest number of "judicial clerkships" behind Yale because NJ has a byzantine court system of traffic courts and family courts. You realize the quality of the "judicial clerkships" that Rutgers kids get are embarrassingly bad when compared to Yale? You realize virtually all of them are in New Jersey state courts, and a large percentage of them are in New Jersey State Traffic Court? Beyond that, one can't hang on to a traffic court clerkship forever. One has to find a job as a traffic ticket lawyer or set up solo shop as a traffic ticket lawyer.

If jobs were available that paid more than the average salary (45K) that the clerkships offer, the grads would be taking them. Again, these types of clerkships are the types of clerkships (i.e. Federal Courts) that one postpones joining the corporate world to take.


I don't know the breakdown of percentage wise, but I've been assured by students and administrative officials that majority are not traffic court clerkships. They are mostly NJ trial courts from what I understand. You are right though, the level of prestige is obviously not comparable to Yale in any way, shape, or form. Of course, they are also not long term positions, but many do lead to work in small NJ firms. Still, this should not serve as an endorsement of the clerkship opportunities available from Rutgers.

keg411
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby keg411 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:36 pm

The problem is that there is no "best" school for NJ (unless you say T14, but that holds true of every market). It's not like there's any equivalent of Pittsburgh/Duquesne (T2 vs. T4).

BTW, this thread is so going to end up as "stupid TTT'ers debate their crappy schools" on xoxo or jdunderground or something :lol:. But BD, I think you and I have particularly positive views of our respective schools because we did "win the lottery" (at least first semester). If we were two median students or even top 1/4 students, I bet this would go a lot differently.

Also, they are state trial court clerkships. Traffic Court in NJ is all municipal and those courts don't have clerks (I know because I've been to municipal court before :lol:). The "Traffic Court" clerkships is a nickname Scott Bullock gave to the state trial court clerkships and they mostly lead to small firm jobs (aka "shitlaw"). Pretty much everyone does them and they give you a year of $$ and a shot to find a job and can be pretty "cushy" (i.e. great hours) depending on your judge. They do have Family Court judges, but they aren't a large percentage. I happen to know some state trial court judges and am very familiar with the system.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby gwuorbust » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:38 pm

Let's look at some numbers. Don't construe this as me being a dick, I just want to throw some numbers on the board (and avoid looking at UCC 2-314 for another 5 minutes :lol: ):

My 120k debt:

ICR is the rate at which you are spending 15% of your income on loan repayment:

(also, I put in an interest rate of 8% because my loans are mixed between 6.8% and 9.~%)

10 year repayment schedule:
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,455.93
Minimum AGI (ICR)$98,186.00

25 year repayment schedule:
Monthly Loan Payment: $926.18
Minimum AGI (ICR) $66,401.00


Now let's say someone get themselves 200k into debt.

10 years:
Monthly Loan Payment: $2,426.55
ICR of $156,423.00

25 years:
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,543.63
ICR of $103,448.00

those are some large figure. the only flaw in the calculation is that the ICR (aka the minimum income need to avoid economic hardship). someone making 80k has much less hardship devoting 25% of his/her income to loan repayment than someone with an income of 50k would.

What I think all of this shows is that you either (a) need to keep your debt at or below 120k or (b) be confident that your expected income is above above like 80/90k. or be sure you want to do PI, because then non of these calculations really matter for you anyways.

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mrtoren
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby mrtoren » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:49 pm

U.S. News and World Report is showing 78.2% of Rutgers-Newark law school grads to be employed at the time of graduation. Thats not the altered nine-month temporary hire or McDonald's desperation, thats right away. Its blowing Camden out by almost 10% in that regard (68.8%) and almost 23% compared to higher ranked schools like Penn State (55.7%). Seton Hall is slightly higher at 79.9%, but Brooklyn (63.3%) and Pittsburgh (57.4%) are lower with a higher rank. Are the stats skewed? Probably. But all of the law schools are playing the same game and New Jersey law schools, including Rutgers-Newark, are still coming out ahead.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:55 pm

mrtoren wrote:U.S. News and World Report is showing 78.2% of Rutgers-Newark law school grads to be employed at the time of graduation. Thats not the altered nine-month temporary hire or McDonald's desperation, thats right away. Its blowing Camden out by almost 10% in that regard (68.8%) and almost 23% compared to higher ranked schools like Penn State (55.7%). Seton Hall is slightly higher at 79.9%, but Brooklyn (63.3%) and Pittsburgh (57.4%) are lower with a higher rank. Are the stats skewed? Probably. But all of the law schools are playing the same game and New Jersey law schools, including Rutgers-Newark, are still coming out ahead.


Both the "employed at graduation" as well as "employed 9 months out" are as skewed as the median salary. Not everyone reports (actually rarely is reporting above 2/3rds of the class) and those that do report report being "employed". Employed means McDonald's work, secretary or biglaw associate, law school treats all of those as the same when it comes to stats.

The simply rule is, if its reported by the law school, dont pay any attention. Someday that law school transparency site will have everyone reporting and we'll have real data but that isnt coming any time soon.

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Justathought
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Justathought » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:55 pm

Here's some more food for thought on the debt front. Let's say you go nuts and take out 220,000 in federal loans (including GradPlus), now lets say you get a job at 60k a year after graduation (I can go lower too, it really doesn't matter). You would pay the debt via IBR.

From the IBR debt calculator. This assumes no dependents, and no joint tax filing:

Based on the information you have provided, you would probably qualify for IBR. Your monthly payment would be around $550. If your income rises in the future, then your payments might too.

Reducing your payments through IBR may extend your loan period and cause interest accrual, but any remaining balance — including interest — is forgiven after 25 years of payments (or 10 years for those with Direct loans who work in public service).

You may be able to reduce or defer your monthly loan payments in other ways. However, these approaches may also increase the total cost of your loans over time and may not count toward loan forgiveness (with the exception of Income-Contingent Repayment, which is only available for Direct loans).Talk to your lender about your options.

For more information see our FAQ.

Note: Your IBR calculator result is based on IBR regulations and is only an estimate. Any changes to IBR regulations, or changes in your income, your student debt amount, your marital status, your number of dependents, or a variety of other factors, could change the result. Only your lender or the U.S. Department of Education can determine your actual eligibility and required loan payment.

Married: No
Debt: $ 220,000.00
Income: $ 60,000.00
Interest rate: 8%
Where you live: Outside Alaska or Hawaii
Dependents: 0

Print |


Edit: And by the way, I actually estimated that on gross income, which should not be the case. So the payments would be a good bit lower. Whether or not you support this plan of action(I actually wouldn't want to go down this path), it is likely the route most law school students will take, going forth.
Last edited by Justathought on Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

MrAnon
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby MrAnon » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:56 pm

mrtoren wrote:U.S. News and World Report is showing 78.2% of Rutgers-Newark law school grads to be employed at the time of graduation. Thats not the altered nine-month temporary hire or McDonald's desperation, thats right away. Its blowing Camden out by almost 10% in that regard (68.8%) and almost 23% compared to higher ranked schools like Penn State (55.7%). Seton Hall is slightly higher at 79.9%, but Brooklyn (63.3%) and Pittsburgh (57.4%) are lower with a higher rank. Are the stats skewed? Probably. But all of the law schools are playing the same game and New Jersey law schools, including Rutgers-Newark, are still coming out ahead.


Jesus. We've already established that a ton of the students are funneled into clerkships, NOT long term jobs, careers, or anything of the like. So when you see this inflated employed at graduation number be sure to remember that it is inflated because so many are employed at graduation in CLERKSHIPS. Rutgers only comes out ahead because of the clerkships.

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mrtoren
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby mrtoren » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:03 pm

MrAnon wrote:Jesus. We've already established that a ton of the students are funneled into clerkships, NOT long term jobs, careers, or anything of the like. So when you see this inflated employed at graduation number be sure to remember that it is inflated because so many are employed at graduation in CLERKSHIPS. Rutgers only comes out ahead because of the clerkships.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen ... ke-160000/
Guess the median starting salary beating out schools like Emory, Boston College, American U, UW-Madison, Wash U St. Louis and others is also a fluke? I know its tough to admit that a decent T2 school exists.

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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby MrAnon » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:07 pm

mrtoren wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Jesus. We've already established that a ton of the students are funneled into clerkships, NOT long term jobs, careers, or anything of the like. So when you see this inflated employed at graduation number be sure to remember that it is inflated because so many are employed at graduation in CLERKSHIPS. Rutgers only comes out ahead because of the clerkships.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen ... ke-160000/
Guess the median starting salary beating out schools like Emory, Boston College, American U, UW-Madison, Wash U St. Louis and others is also a fluke? I know its tough to admit that a decent T2 school exists.


This list makes Duke look better than Yale. This is your evidence?

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Justathought
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Justathought » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:09 pm

MrAnon wrote:
mrtoren wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Jesus. We've already established that a ton of the students are funneled into clerkships, NOT long term jobs, careers, or anything of the like. So when you see this inflated employed at graduation number be sure to remember that it is inflated because so many are employed at graduation in CLERKSHIPS. Rutgers only comes out ahead because of the clerkships.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen ... ke-160000/
Guess the median starting salary beating out schools like Emory, Boston College, American U, UW-Madison, Wash U St. Louis and others is also a fluke? I know its tough to admit that a decent T2 school exists.


This list makes Duke look better than Yale. This is your evidence?


That payscale evidence seems flawed to me. For example, I believe the UVA data came from a grand total of 13 graduates.

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mrtoren
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby mrtoren » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:10 pm

MrAnon wrote:This list makes Duke look better than Yale. This is your evidence?

You're right, who needs statistics? While we're at it, lets toss out the entire USNWR rankings. They're all deceiving.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby gwuorbust » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:14 pm

Justathought wrote:Here's some more food for thought on the debt front. Let's say you go nuts and take out 220,000 in federal loans (including GradPlus), now lets say you get a job at 60k a year after graduation (I can go lower too, it really doesn't matter). You would pay the debt via IBR.

From the IBR debt calculator. This assumes no dependents, and no joint tax filing:

Based on the information you have provided, you would probably qualify for IBR. Your monthly payment would be around $550. If your income rises in the future, then your payments might too.

Reducing your payments through IBR may extend your loan period and cause interest accrual, but any remaining balance — including interest — is forgiven after 25 years of payments (or 10 years for those with Direct loans who work in public service).

You may be able to reduce or defer your monthly loan payments in other ways. However, these approaches may also increase the total cost of your loans over time and may not count toward loan forgiveness (with the exception of Income-Contingent Repayment, which is only available for Direct loans).Talk to your lender about your options.

For more information see our FAQ.

Note: Your IBR calculator result is based on IBR regulations and is only an estimate. Any changes to IBR regulations, or changes in your income, your student debt amount, your marital status, your number of dependents, or a variety of other factors, could change the result. Only your lender or the U.S. Department of Education can determine your actual eligibility and required loan payment.

Married: No
Debt: $ 220,000.00
Income: $ 60,000.00
Interest rate: 8%
Where you live: Outside Alaska or Hawaii
Dependents: 0

Print |


Edit: And by the way, I actually estimated that on gross income, which should not be the case. So the payments would be a good bit lower. Whether or not you support this plan of action(I actually wouldn't want to go down this path), it is likely the route most law school students will take, going forth.


tis correct. BUT, at that rate you will be paying on those loans for all 25 years until they are forgiven. I, for one, hope to God I'm not making student loan payments when I'm in my 40s.

MrAnon
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby MrAnon » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:19 pm

mrtoren wrote:
MrAnon wrote:This list makes Duke look better than Yale. This is your evidence?

You're right, who needs statistics? While we're at it, lets toss out the entire USNWR rankings. They're all deceiving.


People didn't criss cross the country to attend T2 and T3 and T4 schools before US news, so I can see why T2 promoters would think US news is all important--it brings significant press and attention to the schools. Unfortunately, Rutgers has always been something like the 6th or 7th best law school in the greater NYC area. US news may rank it 78th or 65th on a given year but it doesn't really change its overall standing.

It is often helpful to think independently of what the editors of US news say.

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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:26 pm

mrtoren wrote:
MrAnon wrote:This list makes Duke look better than Yale. This is your evidence?

You're right, who needs FALSE statistics? While we're at it, lets toss out the entire USNWR rankings. They're all deceiving.


FTFY.

Your right. Rutgers is better than all those schools you listed. Go to rutgers. 3 out o every 4 grads out of rutgers makes 100k starting. Definitely.

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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby MrAnon » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:34 pm

I think we have really gotten off point here. Rutgers is bad, but no worse than Hofstra or the Hall. Anyone who argues your job or life prospects are better from one or the other is really just splitting hairs or promoting a self interest in one of the schools. Don't go to any of these schools. All are a losing proposition. Find a training program in sales for an industry you have some interest in if you can't think of another job.

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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:45 pm

MrAnon wrote:I think we have really gotten off point here. Rutgers is bad, but no worse than Hofstra or the Hall. Anyone who argues your job or life prospects are better from one or the other is really just splitting hairs or promoting a self interest in one of the schools. Don't go to any of these schools. All are a losing proposition. Find a training program in sales for an industry you have some interest in if you can't think of another job.


No rutgers is better than hofstra. It has a market. Hofstra does not.

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mrtoren
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby mrtoren » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:15 pm

TLS choice threads are getting to be pointless. Anything beyond the Top 30, usually even the Top 14, is automatically responded to with "Retake" or "That school is worthless." Even the slightest hint of impartiality has been discarded. Yes, the market is bad. But I'm starting to think that people here are acting in their own self-interests instead of helping others. The more people you can convince to drop the idea of law school, the better your chances will be for finding employment. Will some people end up debt-ridden and near poverty? Of course, but they're generally idiots who attended bad TTT/TTTT schools, had little ambition and attended law school to avoid the real world. By all accounts, most people who attend top 100 schools will find employment in a job that pays them enough to live fairly comfortably. It may not be the dream BigLaw job paying $100,000+, but they will find work and that work will pay them enough to live or to qualify for IBR/LRAP.

End rant.

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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby gwuorbust » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:44 pm

mrtoren wrote:TLS choice threads are getting to be pointless. Anything beyond the Top 30, usually even the Top 14, is automatically responded to with "Retake" or "That school is worthless." Even the slightest hint of impartiality has been discarded. Yes, the market is bad. But I'm starting to think that people here are acting in their own self-interests instead of helping others. The more people you can convince to drop the idea of law school, the better your chances will be for finding employment. Will some people end up debt-ridden and near poverty? Of course, but they're generally idiots who attended bad TTT/TTTT schools, had little ambition and attended law school to avoid the real world. By all accounts, most people who attend top 100 schools will find employment in a job that pays them enough to live fairly comfortably. It may not be the dream BigLaw job paying $100,000+, but they will find work and that work will pay them enough to live or to qualify for IBR/LRAP.

End rant.


I've heard this conspiracy theory before and it is false for many reasons. first, there are about about twice as many graduates as there are legal jobs. if anyone thinks that persuading a few ppl not to go to LS will help them, they are likely insane. maybe 10-15% of law students will read TLS. thus most of the unwashed masses will barrel headlong into LS and so no amount of persuading will make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things.

second, each class has only one shot at OCI. therefore, incoming classes don't effect current law students at all.

third, just for the jollies, if you open any phone book you will see that there is already an oversupply of lawyers. even if all lawl schools shut down for say three years there would probably not be be a significant impact on legal wages. there are already wayyyy to many lawyers out there and not enough jobs.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:06 pm

mrtoren wrote:TLS choice threads are getting to be pointless. Anything beyond the Top 30, usually even the Top 14, is automatically responded to with "Retake" or "That school is worthless." Even the slightest hint of impartiality has been discarded. Yes, the market is bad. But I'm starting to think that people here are acting in their own self-interests instead of helping others. The more people you can convince to drop the idea of law school, the better your chances will be for finding employment. Will some people end up debt-ridden and near poverty? Of course, but they're generally idiots who attended bad TTT/TTTT schools, had little ambition and attended law school to avoid the real world. By all accounts, most people who attend top 100 schools will find employment in a job that pays them enough to live fairly comfortably. It may not be the dream BigLaw job paying $100,000+, but they will find work and that work will pay them enough to live or to qualify for IBR/LRAP.

End rant.


I told you that your school at free would be a great choice. when i applied I had a lot of polls about wake v uga, and no one talked shit. If you are going to go to a low t2, t3 or t4 @ STICKER, people will tell you to retake- because it is an objectively bad decision. It has nothing to do with an effort to sabotage. It comes from people who are going to much better schools, not getting jobs, and drowning in debt- that are trying to help u.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:09 pm

Will some people end up debt-ridden and near poverty? Of course, but they're generally 1. idiots who 2attended bad TTT/TTTT schools, 3. had little ambition and 4. attended law school to avoid the real world. By all accounts, most people who attend top 100 schools will find employment in a job that pays them enough to live fairly comfortably. It may not be the dream BigLaw job paying $100,000+, but they will find work and that work will pay them enough to live or to qualify for IBR/LRAP.


Source?

In addition, you might want to think of how the above applies to you:
1. Spouting off conspiracy theories and completely ignoring the legal mark- sounds like an idiot to me.
2. There's not much difference between your schools and a t3. Lower t2 is roughly analagous to t3. You think once a school's ranking drops below 100 it suddenly turns into shit?
3. In addition, you don't seem to have very much ambition- a truly ambitious person would not settle for a school that is what- in the top 40% of all schools?
4. Aren't you just trying to avoid the real world? What else do you have lined up?

Side note- Have you heard anything good about any of those schools, from people not affiliated with them?

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:41 pm

also... I could go on for hours, but Ill just make 2 more points.
1. Your conspiracy theory is retarded. People told you to retake and go to better school. That would hurt the people giving you the advice. There is nothing in it for people telling you to retake. There is everything in it for the law school.

2. Don't try to drag USNWR into this like they make the facts valid-its all self reported.

3. Here is what happening- I'm going to try to make an analogy with law school and cars so you can see how ridiculous you are being.

a. you are considering buying a Kia Soul.
b. There are a bunch of people who have bought even *better* Kia automobiles at *lower prices.*
c. they are telling you that they do not like their cheaper, better kia, so you should definitly not buy the more expensive, less quality Kia Soul.
d. Kia on the other hand, tells you that their Kia Soul is awesome.
e. You then agree with Kia (why would they lie to you, right?) and
f. accuse all the other Kia owners of being in a conspiracy (that will not help them in any way).

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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby sam_f » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:46 pm

Pretty much exactly what I thought was going to happen in this thread did indeed transpire. At least I could say I'm not the least bit surprised. Whatever. I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

One question for the cynics, though: tuition for in state residents is listed at approximately $23k per year. I know that doesn't include books, but how are people coming up with these figures of being $100k+ in debt after 3 years? I plan on living at home and I live literally 15 minutes away from the Newark campus, so residency is free and travel cost is so insignificant that it isn't worth mentioning in my case. I've applied for federal aid, so let's just ASSUME I receive $5k a year, we will say that negates the cost of books. Therefore, I should be looking at around $60k in debt after 3 years, am I missing something here? Also, that's not factoring in the possibility that I may be eligible for a scholarship as a 2L and beyond.

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Justathought
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Justathought » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:49 pm

sam_f wrote:Pretty much exactly what I thought was going to happen in this thread did indeed transpire. At least I could say I'm not the least bit surprised. Whatever. I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

One question for the cynics, though: tuition for in state residents is listed at approximately $23k per year. I know that doesn't include books, but how are people coming up with these figures of being $100k+ in debt after 3 years? I plan on living at home and I live literally 15 minutes away from the Newark campus, so residency is free and travel cost is so insignificant that it isn't worth mentioning in my case. I've applied for federal aid, so let's just ASSUME I receive $5k a year, we will say that negates the cost of books. Therefore, I should be looking at around $60k in debt after 3 years, am I missing something here? Also, that's not factoring in the possibility that I may be eligible for a scholarship as a 2L and beyond.


You might be able to get some form of merit aid if you're at the top of your class. Don't sweat it though, in your case, RUTGERS IS A GREAT CHOICE! Provided you want to be a lawyer and will not be bothered by likely missing out on biglaw.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:52 pm

Justathought wrote:
sam_f wrote:Pretty much exactly what I thought was going to happen in this thread did indeed transpire. At least I could say I'm not the least bit surprised. Whatever. I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

One question for the cynics, though: tuition for in state residents is listed at approximately $23k per year. I know that doesn't include books, but how are people coming up with these figures of being $100k+ in debt after 3 years? I plan on living at home and I live literally 15 minutes away from the Newark campus, so residency is free and travel cost is so insignificant that it isn't worth mentioning in my case. I've applied for federal aid, so let's just ASSUME I receive $5k a year, we will say that negates the cost of books. Therefore, I should be looking at around $60k in debt after 3 years, am I missing something here? Also, that's not factoring in the possibility that I may be eligible for a scholarship as a 2L and beyond.


You might be able to get some form of merit aid if you're at the top of your class. Don't sweat it though, in your case, RUTGERS IS A GREAT CHOICE! Provided you want to be a lawyer and will not be bothered by likely missing out on biglaw.



people get those numbers based on CoA. But if you can come out 60k in debt- and you don't mind doing mid/small law or solo work- or possible PI, then yes Rutgers is a great choice. No one ever said Rutgers was an inherently bad choices.

Its only bad if:
1. you are paying a ton
2. You expect that you are going to make more than 50 or 60k out the gate.




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