Hofstra, Rutgers, Seton Hall Forum

[MrAnon]

out the gate

This means first decade of career as far as I am concerned, based on my conversation with grads in Northern NJ.

[sam_f]

Pretty much exactly what I thought was going to happen in this thread did indeed transpire. At least I could say I'm not the least bit surprised. Whatever. I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

One question for the cynics, though: tuition for in state residents is listed at approximately $23k per year. I know that doesn't include books, but how are people coming up with these figures of being $100k+ in debt after 3 years? I plan on living at home and I live literally 15 minutes away from the Newark campus, so residency is free and travel cost is so insignificant that it isn't worth mentioning in my case. I've applied for federal aid, so let's just ASSUME I receive $5k a year, we will say that negates the cost of books. Therefore, I should be looking at around $60k in debt after 3 years, am I missing something here? Also, that's not factoring in the possibility that I may be eligible for a scholarship as a 2L and beyond.

You might be able to get some form of merit aid if you're at the top of your class. Don't sweat it though, in your case, RUTGERS IS A GREAT CHOICE! Provided you want to be a lawyer and will not be bothered by likely missing out on biglaw.

people get those numbers based on CoA. But if you can come out 60k in debt- and you don't mind doing mid/small law or solo work- or possible PI, then yes Rutgers is a great choice. No one ever said Rutgers was an inherently bad choices.

Its only bad if:
1. you are paying a ton
2. You expect that you are going to make more than 50 or 60k out the gate.

Honestly, if I can land myself a career that pays me $50-60K annually coming right out of law school I will be more than just content, I will be rather satisfied. Of course, provided I am practicing in one of the fields I have passion for - primarily constitutional law.

[MrAnon]

I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

This begs the question, what would phase?

[mrtoren]

also... I could go on for hours, but Ill just make 2 more points.
1. Your conspiracy theory is retarded. People told you to retake and go to better school. That would hurt the people giving you the advice. There is nothing in it for people telling you to retake. There is everything in it for the law school.

2. Don't try to drag USNWR into this like they make the facts valid-its all self reported.

3. Here is what happening- I'm going to try to make an analogy with law school and cars so you can see how ridiculous you are being.

a. you are considering buying a Kia Soul.
b. There are a bunch of people who have bought even *better* Kia automobiles at *lower prices.*
c. they are telling you that they do not like their cheaper, better kia, so you should definitly not buy the more expensive, less quality Kia Soul.
d. Kia on the other hand, tells you that their Kia Soul is awesome.
e. You then agree with Kia (why would they lie to you, right?) and
f. accuse all the other Kia owners of being in a conspiracy (that will not help them in any way).

You're a prime example of whats wrong with these forums. Carry on. I'm done.

[MrAnon]

He's just giving advice. How is his advice wrong?

[Justathought]

Pretty much exactly what I thought was going to happen in this thread did indeed transpire. At least I could say I'm not the least bit surprised. Whatever. I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

One question for the cynics, though: tuition for in state residents is listed at approximately $23k per year. I know that doesn't include books, but how are people coming up with these figures of being $100k+ in debt after 3 years? I plan on living at home and I live literally 15 minutes away from the Newark campus, so residency is free and travel cost is so insignificant that it isn't worth mentioning in my case. I've applied for federal aid, so let's just ASSUME I receive $5k a year, we will say that negates the cost of books. Therefore, I should be looking at around $60k in debt after 3 years, am I missing something here? Also, that's not factoring in the possibility that I may be eligible for a scholarship as a 2L and beyond.

You might be able to get some form of merit aid if you're at the top of your class. Don't sweat it though, in your case, RUTGERS IS A GREAT CHOICE! Provided you want to be a lawyer and will not be bothered by likely missing out on biglaw.

people get those numbers based on CoA. But if you can come out 60k in debt- and you don't mind doing mid/small law or solo work- or possible PI, then yes Rutgers is a great choice. No one ever said Rutgers was an inherently bad choices.

Its only bad if:
1. you are paying a ton
2. You expect that you are going to make more than 50 or 60k out the gate.

Honestly, if I can land myself a career that pays me $50-60K annually coming right out of law school I will be more than just content, I will be rather satisfied. Of course, provided I am practicing in one of the fields I have passion for - primarily constitutional law.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE Listen to the first minute. A Rutgers education likely won't lead to a career in constitutional law. Still, Rutgers is a good choice for you, provided you have more feasible interests in law.

[sam_f]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE Listen to the first minute. A Rutgers education likely won't lead to a career in constitutional law. Still, Rutgers is a good choice for you, provided you have more feasible interests in law.

Civil liberties, federal tax law, immigration law - I am interested in many fields of law.

[sam_f]

I'm not the least bit phased by the overwhelming pessimism in here.

This begs the question, what would phase?

Wouldn't that just make your day?

[sam_f]

also... I could go on for hours, but Ill just make 2 more points.
1. Your conspiracy theory is retarded. People told you to retake and go to better school. That would hurt the people giving you the advice. There is nothing in it for people telling you to retake. There is everything in it for the law school.

2. Don't try to drag USNWR into this like they make the facts valid-its all self reported.

3. Here is what happening- I'm going to try to make an analogy with law school and cars so you can see how ridiculous you are being.

a. you are considering buying a Kia Soul.
b. There are a bunch of people who have bought even *better* Kia automobiles at *lower prices.*
c. they are telling you that they do not like their cheaper, better kia, so you should definitly not buy the more expensive, less quality Kia Soul.
d. Kia on the other hand, tells you that their Kia Soul is awesome.
e. You then agree with Kia (why would they lie to you, right?) and
f. accuse all the other Kia owners of being in a conspiracy (that will not help them in any way).

Nice try, but your analogy is intrinsically flawed. Who is to say one Kia is "better" than the other? Is it because one is more expensive, or because one is ranked higher? What constitutes quality, how and who is to define how quality is measured? I'd certainly argue that determining what is "better" must be resorted to observing and assessing the totality of the circumstances and how this relates to the particular individual that is considering buying a Kia. Because, after all, we ARE individuals. Maybe someone needs something compact, another person needs something spacious, one person may need something economical, the other needs something powerful. Only after considering all these variables can a rationale decision be made in regards to what is "better". There is no one size fits all answer. Choosing a law school is very similar in this respect. That's about as far as your analogy will go, however.

[MrAnon]

You're not really choosing the law school. Your options are actually quite limited to only certain law schools. You can't just go off and pick a mercedes. Kia is what the carmakers have said you can have. You can't have better. Current Kia owners are telling you that if this is your only option, choose another route altogether.

[gwuorbust]

You're not really choosing the law school. Your options are actually quite limited to only certain law schools. You can't just go off and pick a mercedes. Kia is what the carmakers have said you can have. You can't have better. Current Kia owners are telling you that if this is your only option, choose another route altogether.

I think it is a perfectly reasonable analogy. the cost of a better car is less(or in OP's case about the same), while the quality is better. and by quality I mean if OP can get high enoug to get $$ to WASHU, that would lead to good placement at a low cost. though I have to admit, with the free COL OP isn't in nearly as bad of a position as say someone who is going to RU + COL loans.

[keg411]

You're not really choosing the law school. Your options are actually quite limited to only certain law schools. You can't just go off and pick a mercedes. Kia is what the carmakers have said you can have. You can't have better. Current Kia owners are telling you that if this is your only option, choose another route altogether.

I think it is a perfectly reasonable analogy. the cost of a better car is less(or in OP's case about the same), while the quality is better. and by quality I mean if OP can get high enoug to get $$ to WASHU, that would lead to good placement at a low cost. though I have to admit, with the free COL OP isn't in nearly as bad of a position as say someone who is going to RU + COL loans.

If RuTTTgers at 60k is a kia, what's TTTulane at 120k? And are you really recommending WUSTTTL for someone who wants to practice in NJ? .

I like you, GW, and generally agree with your overall point, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
If OP is really only taking out 60k it's not a big deal (of course, it would be better if OP had a scholarship; but not paying COL makes a pretty big difference).

[gwuorbust]

If RuTTTgers at 60k is a kia, what's TTTulane at 120k?

--ImageRemoved--

Also OP, based on thinking about how cheap RU will be for you..I'm gunna change my vote. Go RU and don't look back.

[sam_f]

You're not really choosing the law school. Your options are actually quite limited to only certain law schools. You can't just go off and pick a mercedes. Kia is what the carmakers have said you can have. You can't have better. Current Kia owners are telling you that if this is your only option, choose another route altogether.

You're like a relentless vulture that has nothing to gain, I don't remotely understand your motive and I question if you even have one. Though, I have to admit, your persistence is admirable, yet incredibly ineffective, unwarranted, and, most of all, unwelcome at the same time. I think you're precisely what people refer to as a "troll". Thanks for expending your time in my thread, but I feel compelled to let you know it would unquestionably be better served elsewhere - practically anywhere but here!

Unless of course you have something non cynical you'd like to share to a future 1L, I'd be more than grateful. But I have my doubts you're on here for that.

[keg411]

If RuTTTgers at 60k is a kia, what's TTTulane at 120k?

--ImageRemoved--

But good to see you can have a sense of humor about the whole situation. I'd say most 1L's and 2L's I know probably agree with you that lawl school sucks (and plenty have explicitly said so). I think I'm certifiable for liking this shit.

[Nicholasnickynic]

Rutgers at 60k is an okay situation. With my analogy I was more thinking about someone going and paying CoL.

Also I like the person that refuted my comment with, "You're a prime example of whats wrong with these forums. Carry on. I'm done."

You will surely be a top flight lawyer with your amazing reasoning skills.

[mrtoren]

Rutgers at 60k is an okay situation. With my analogy I was more thinking about someone going and paying CoL.

Also I like the person that refuted my comment with, "You're a prime example of whats wrong with these forums. Carry on. I'm done."

You will surely be a top flight lawyer with your amazing reasoning skills.

Gotta pick and choose your battles. Unfortunately, you're not worth my time.

Get lost troll.

[Nicholasnickynic]

Rutgers at 60k is an okay situation. With my analogy I was more thinking about someone going and paying CoL.

Also I like the person that refuted my comment with, "You're a prime example of whats wrong with these forums. Carry on. I'm done."

You will surely be a top flight lawyer with your amazing reasoning skills.

Gotta pick and choose your battles. Unfortunately, you're not worth my time.

Get lost troll.

I'm not a troll. A lot of people helped me out on this website. I try to help others out. I can show you to the posts i've made and Pms i've done to help others who asked.
In fact, if you look at my post history in this thread, I came in on your side... but the things you said were so objectively wrong, and then you just start lashing out at people when they tell you anything approaching reality...

[mrtoren]

I'm not a troll. A lot of people helped me out on this website. I try to help others out. I can show you to the posts i've made and Pms i've done to help others who asked.
In fact, if you look at my post history in this thread, I came in on your side... but the things you said were so objectively wrong, and then you just start lashing out at people when they tell you anything approaching reality...

The only thing I'm lashing out against is the senseless bashing of Rutgers. I'm sure you have helped a lot of people out, but I don't appreciate your inflammatory remarks in response to my very real statement about the mentality of T2 schools on this forum. It can be seen in any number of threads. Did I propose a radical cause for that mentality? Sure. But you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

[BarbellDreams]

Jesus. We've already established that a ton of the students are funneled into clerkships, NOT long term jobs, careers, or anything of the like. So when you see this inflated employed at graduation number be sure to remember that it is inflated because so many are employed at graduation in CLERKSHIPS. Rutgers only comes out ahead because of the clerkships.

http://blogs.forbes.com/kurtbadenhausen ... ke-160000/
Guess the median starting salary beating out schools like Emory, Boston College, American U, UW-Madison, Wash U St. Louis and others is also a fluke? I know its tough to admit that a decent T2 school exists.

I told myself I wasnt responding to this again but if you are still basing ANY judgment on median salary you are out of your mind and dont understand how law schools can game the rankings to inflate their median salary or graduation numbers. Rutgers will not outplace or even come CLOSE to any school you have listed on that site. The reason their median salary is high is because they have like 10-20% reporting and obviously the only ones reporting are those that are paid well hence the median salary is inflated because all the people making 20-40k aren't factored in. This is basic stuff, by now every 0L on TLS should get it.