BU v Cornell Forum

[elm84dr]

This is what I'm struggling with right now...APRIL 15th!!!!!!!
I would do big-law, but I am not big law or bust. I would be happy with a government job paying $70,000-100,000, but with no debt. If I went to Cornell, I will be biglaw or bust because I will have 110,000 to pay back.

1. Government jobs probably aren't paying 70k, let alone 100k.

2. Government jobs are tough to get.

3. It is feasible to pay back 110k on a 50k salary, though not ideal.

4. You need a more realistic estimation of what is going to happen to you if you strike out of biglaw.

federal government jobs starting at gs-11 will all be around 70k f fresh out of school. State government jobs are obviously much lower.

Thats what I got from my research as well, but I let people say as they will. I want feedback and posters are giving it to me. It is much appreciated.

[Patriot1208]

Personally, i'd take BU because you will hae zero debt and I like boston. Cornell will likely, normally, outperform BU by 10-15% with NLJ firms. That is a major difference, but not worth 120k IMHO.

[elm84dr]

BU has started to pull away...hmmmmm

[bk1]

federal government jobs starting at gs-11 will all be around 70k f fresh out of school. State government jobs are obviously much lower.

This is a good point and should be noted. However aren't the majority of options for fresh grads at the state level and not the federal level?

[Patriot1208]

federal government jobs starting at gs-11 will all be around 70k f fresh out of school. State government jobs are obviously much lower.

This is a good point and should be noted. However aren't the majority of options for fresh grads at the state level and not the federal level?

Certainly. From what I understand most federal jobs are just as hard, if not harder to get than biglaw. DOJ, DHS, CIA, FBI, SEC, FTC, etc are all extremely competitive. Now, I have heard of people getting bureau of transportation or things like that with pretty midling grades. But, certainly, there are FAR more state government jobs than federal government jobs.

[bk1]

Certainly. From what I understand most federal jobs are just as hard, if not harder to get than biglaw. DOJ, DHS, CIA, FBI, SEC, FTC, etc are all extremely competitive. Now, I have heard of people getting bureau of transportation or things like that with pretty midling grades. But, certainly, there are FAR more state government jobs than federal government jobs.

So 70k government job starting is possible but it's not like OP can fall back on it if they miss biglaw (and as you say it may very well be harder than biglaw).

That being said, this is kind of a moot point considering OP is already a lock for top 20% and lolbiglawsecure.

[Arbiter213]

How is it even a question? BU is NO RISK. Calculate out the expected values for all cases and that will throw it WAY in favor of BU.

[Patriot1208]

How is it even a question? BU is NO RISK. Calculate out the expected values for all cases and that will throw it WAY in favor of BU.

There is still opportunity cost, but this is my reasoning as well.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

Edited.

[sarahlawg]

I would take BU in a heart beat.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

Not a fan of debt either, but that is a decent price for a T14. And Ivy status.

[Other25BeforeYou]

LRAP would be Cornell's advantage, but with your career goals this is irrelevant (and it is always better to have no debt than help with debt)

Agree that no debt is better, but if OP wants to do government work after three years, if he hasn't paid off his debt yet, Cornell's LRAP would definitely be relevant. No income cap, and can be used at any point, even if the alum has been in the private sector.

[lmtt]

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[bk1]

And Ivy status.

You say this like it has any meaning.

[bk1]

I know that I will work to the core to be top 20% at Cornell or BU, and I can typically reach academic goals when I put my mind to it. DOJustice GS is definitely something I would want to do. Do my chances diminish greatly if I go to BU for that position?

Everyone thinks they will be in the top 20% going in and everyone will work hard. No offense but most students at BU or Cornell will have done much better than a 3.3 in undergrad and have LSATS 4-8 points higher than yours. If your softs/URM status were stripped from your application you would be an auto-reject at both...

If I were you I would go to BU no question. That is a lot of money to leave on the table when your job prospects likely wont be much better coming from Cornell.

Wow. It is even more lolworthy that OP thinks top 20% is assured when they have a 3.3 and 155 LSAT.

[Blindmelon]

LRAP would be Cornell's advantage, but with your career goals this is irrelevant (and it is always better to have no debt than help with debt)

Agree that no debt is better, but if OP wants to do government work after three years, if he hasn't paid off his debt yet, Cornell's LRAP would definitely be relevant. No income cap, and can be used at any point, even if the alum has been in the private sector.

Yea but 0 debt > Cornell LRAP. Cornell > BU for big firms no doubt, but I sincerely doubt its much better, if better at all for fed gov. Its a different hiring beast altogether.

[jcunni5]

I'm gonna say Cornell they are basically giving you 1/2 and you'll improve job prospects significantly, BU was placing 30% in biglaw pre ite they are not going to be hitting that now, Go to Cornell especially if you want flexibility and better shot at prestigous gov jobs

[bk1]

I'm gonna say Cornell they are basically giving you 1/2 and you'll improve job prospects significantly, BU was placing 30% in biglaw pre ite they are not going to be hitting that now, Go to Cornell especially if you want flexibility and better shot at prestigous gov jobs

FWIW, it got up to 40%+ during the boom (I am assuming that is what you mean by pre ITE).

[Patriot1208]

I'm gonna say Cornell they are basically giving you 1/2 and you'll improve job prospects significantly, BU was placing 30% in biglaw pre ite they are not going to be hitting that now, Go to Cornell especially if you want flexibility and better shot at prestigous gov jobs

FWIW, it got up to 40%+ during the boom (I am assuming that is what you mean by pre ITE).

Ya and 30% is about what bu gives you now

[elm84dr]

I know that I will work to the core to be top 20% at Cornell or BU, and I can typically reach academic goals when I put my mind to it. DOJustice GS is definitely something I would want to do. Do my chances diminish greatly if I go to BU for that position?

Everyone thinks they will be in the top 20% going in and everyone will work hard. No offense but most students at BU or Cornell will have done much better than a 3.3 in undergrad and have LSATS 4-8 points higher than yours. If your softs/URM status were stripped from your application you would be an auto-reject at both...

If I were you I would go to BU no question. That is a lot of money to leave on the table when your job prospects likely wont be much better coming from Cornell.

Wow. It is even more lolworthy that OP thinks top 20% is assured when they have a 3.3 and 155 LSAT.

You know this is some of the more ignorant mess people say on TLS when I am honestly asking for some insight into my situation. My most recent LSAT is a 160, but that's besides the point, you are a pretty pathetic person trying to belittle someone via the internet. Hope it makes you feel bigger though.

[lmtt]

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[tourdeforcex]

TLS seems very split.

OP, let us know what you decide.

[whymeohgodno]

Go to BU man. You will be debt free with an awesome degree before 30, good shot at biglaw and government.

LRAP would be Cornell's advantage, but with your career goals this is irrelevant (and it is always better to have no debt than help with debt)

FTFY

30%+ isn't a good shot? Cornell fluctuates down to 42% or so some years.

Misleading. It dipped to 42% ONE year.

[bigkahuna2020]

And BU dropped down to 30%. It was 35% the year before and 40+% for a few years before

[KMaine]

I go to Cornell, I will be working in Boston. I don't see how much of a question this is. The BU offer is amazing, and given good performance, BU will give you great options. If you do not do well at BU, you probably would not have done well at Cornell, but you will have no LS debt. Go to BU, you lucky bastard.