Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

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Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Washington University in St. Louis
16
25%
Boston College
47
75%
 
Total votes: 63

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stratocophic
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby stratocophic » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:01 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:
bk1 wrote:BC has better employment stats because it feeds into Boston and, to a lesser extent, NYC. WUSTL places into St. Louis/Chicago, the former which is small and the latter which is decimated, and the midwest generally.

I have a hard time recommending either of these schools at sticker with their placements both being hurt by the economy. I think the difference is just not enough to trump what should truly matter: whether you want to live in the northeast or the midwest.

That being said, I think the most prudent plan is something along the lines of either retake/reapply (if possible) or taking a worse school with a larger scholly.


Retaking and/or reapplying isn't really an option for me at this point, for a variety of reasons. Yes, either school at sticker is an unappealing notion ... but there is not much I can do. In my case, the "worse school with a larger scholly" would be UC Davis -- no offense to them. But I really don't want to go there.

I would prefer the northeast. But back to my question: Should I pick WashU because of the higher ranking? They are telling me they are a "national school." What's your reaction?
Eh all of the schools in that range say that. It's more or less true out of necessity, the class disperses a lot, but WashU's not Harvard. You have ties, so it isn't like you'd be trying to get somewhere you've never been. But if you want Boston specifically, and not just the northeast, BC is where you should go. If not specifically Boston, it might be worth making a choice between the two based on other factors.

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bk1
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:04 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:Retaking and/or reapplying isn't really an option for me at this point, for a variety of reasons. Yes, either school at sticker is an unappealing notion ... but there is not much I can do. In my case, the "worse school with a larger scholly" would be UC Davis -- no offense to them. But I really don't want to go there.

I would prefer the northeast. But back to my question: Should I pick WashU because of the higher ranking? They are telling me they are a "national school." What's your reaction?


If you don't want CA then yeah, you shouldn't pick UCD.

Yeah, I was at their ASW and they kept preaching the "national school" line. I think it is possible for grads at the very very top of the class to go to NYC, maybe DC. I think, with a lot of hustle and some good grades, that you can go to a place where you have ties. So they aren't really national and considering you can't guarantee top of the class, don't go there hoping to be outside of the midwest.

WUSTL's higher ranking is irrelevant. BC has consistently placed more grads into NLJ250 firms for the last half decade or so that I have seen data for it. I assume that BC has probably always placed better than WUSTL (and I would bet this has a lot to do with location).

You prefer the northeast, these schools are roughly peers and cost roughly the same, BC has better employment prospects due to the larger size of the markets it places into... you should have already declined your WUSTL offer and deposited at BC.

seriously????
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby seriously???? » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:07 pm

stratocophic wrote:
tram988 wrote:
fatduck wrote:is there something i don't know about at the root of the BC/BU hatred of WUSTL? the amount of boston rage on this site is hilarious, and it's almost always directed at WUSTL. you never really see any of the other schools in this range trolling the others so hard (ND, IUB, UIUC, GWU, Emory, etc.) i mean i'm familiar with boston, and understand the heavy concentration of douches in that city, but the laser focus on WUSTL just baffles me.

anyway, carry on.

I don't see the hatred. I just don't think people understand why WUSTL is ranked so highly given its terrible placement statistics compared to other schools similarly ranked.
And there you have it. Preftige envy. Dude, it's the USNWR - who cares? All the rankings are good for is making WUSTLers feel good and trolling Boalt and GTTTown kids.
seriously???? wrote:what kind of ties do you have to STL? in terms of biglaw placement, your chances might be better at WUSTL if you have serious ties there, because the market is insular and favorable to STL natives...
trust me, it is really worth spending the time researching grads from BC in biglaw and see if there are any trends...I did this with WUSTL, and even found out that while they were placing 30% in biglaw, for regional outsiders you really needed to be top 10% to get biglaw, unless you had an engineering background or MBA.
I don't think that's true. Maybe for the St. Louis market, but everyone I've talked to says that top 1/3 has at least a shot right now, maybe down to median if you're exceptional in some way (awesome work experience or EE PhD from MIT or something). I doubt top 1/3 kids with no ties are getting St. Louis b/c it's insular, so these people are going/historically have gone elsewhere, presumably their home markets or Chicago/NY.

Edit: and I think there's NO WAY that 10% of our class (27/28 kids) is getting NLJ positions in St. Louis at this point when we're competing with T14s coming home and the top of SLU and Missouri's classes. Therefore 10% or more have to be getting NLJ jobs elsewhere.


sure, you may have a shot, albeit a long shot. if you research the bios on the WUSTL biglaw kids, its pretty much top the class goes to CHI, DC, NYC, Boston/ missouri natives goto STL and KC/ while the rest of the midwesterners get biglaw jobs around their homes. so if you are an outsider with no engineering or mba background, best of luck outside the top 10%.

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:28 pm

OK, new twist: scholarship offer from BC. Let's say 25% discount on annual tuition, for all three years. Does anyone think that WashU at sticker is still a better choice than BC with scholly?

I have some people telling me WashU at sticker would still be better. Thoughts?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:32 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:OK, new twist: scholarship offer from BC. Let's say 25% discount on annual tuition, for all three years. Does anyone think that WashU at sticker is still a better choice than BC with scholly?

I have some people telling me WashU at sticker would still be better. Thoughts?

What would be the total coa of each school?

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:34 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
lincolnadams74 wrote:OK, new twist: scholarship offer from BC. Let's say 25% discount on annual tuition, for all three years. Does anyone think that WashU at sticker is still a better choice than BC with scholly?

I have some people telling me WashU at sticker would still be better. Thoughts?

What would be the total coa of each school?


WashU would cost $140,000 (three years of $45K + estimated $5K total tuition increases).

Boston College would cost $95,000 (three years of $40K + estimated $5K total tuition increases -- $30K scholarship)

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:48 pm

Lol anyone telling you wustl at sticker will give you better options than BC is nuts. BC> wustl in almost every way, placement, location , LRAP.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:50 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
lincolnadams74 wrote:OK, new twist: scholarship offer from BC. Let's say 25% discount on annual tuition, for all three years. Does anyone think that WashU at sticker is still a better choice than BC with scholly?

I have some people telling me WashU at sticker would still be better. Thoughts?

What would be the total coa of each school?


WashU would cost $140,000 (three years of $45K + estimated $5K total tuition increases).

Boston College would cost $95,000 (three years of $40K + estimated $5K total tuition increases -- $30K scholarship)

Without a doubt bc looks like the best option

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:57 pm

tram988 wrote:Lol anyone telling you wustl at sticker will give you better options than BC is nuts. BC> wustl in almost every way, placement, location , LRAP.


I agree. It's just that I have a relative who did WashU undergrad, and he is successful, so people around me hold WashU in high regard. Many people I know are from/living in St. Louis, so they are admittedly biased.

I'm just trying to understand their logic. Mainly it's coming from the US News rankings, but the fact that they persist despite a scholly from BC is interesting.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:02 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:
tram988 wrote:Lol anyone telling you wustl at sticker will give you better options than BC is nuts. BC> wustl in almost every way, placement, location , LRAP.


I agree. It's just that I have a relative who did WashU undergrad, and he is successful, so people around me hold WashU in high regard. Many people I know are from/living in St. Louis, so they are admittedly biased.

I'm just trying to understand their logic. Mainly it's coming from the US News rankings, but the fact that they persist despite a scholly from BC is interesting.

People often have a hard time differentiating between undergrad and grad school. Washu is clearly a better undergraduate school but their law schools are extremely similar. People are also going to suggest Cornell or Georgetown over Michigan and Virginia for the same reason. Also, lay people in St. Louis people regard WUSTL as on the same level with top ivies. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the majority of undergrads are pre-med and become succesful and part of it has to do with bias. In this case BC is definitely the better option.

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
lincolnadams74 wrote:
tram988 wrote:Lol anyone telling you wustl at sticker will give you better options than BC is nuts. BC> wustl in almost every way, placement, location , LRAP.


I agree. It's just that I have a relative who did WashU undergrad, and he is successful, so people around me hold WashU in high regard. Many people I know are from/living in St. Louis, so they are admittedly biased.

I'm just trying to understand their logic. Mainly it's coming from the US News rankings, but the fact that they persist despite a scholly from BC is interesting.

People often have a hard time differentiating between undergrad and grad school. Washu is clearly a better undergraduate school but their law schools are extremely similar. People are also going to suggest Cornell or Georgetown over Michigan and Virginia for the same reason. Also, lay people in St. Louis people regard WUSTL as on the same level with top ivies. A lot of that has to do with the fact that the majority of undergrads are pre-med and become succesful and part of it has to do with bias. In this case BC is definitely the better option.


I agree. Thanks for your input.

It's funny how people generalize from undergrad to grad (in this case, law). I mean, if it were Harvard or Stanford at sticker vs. BC with scholly, then you could argue rightly in favor of ditching the modest financial discount in exchange for superior reputation ... but WashU isn't Harvard.

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:34 pm

Yeah I think that is precisely where the confusion is coming from. The undergrad does have a better reputation that BC. But you're going to law school :)

RPK34
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby RPK34 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:58 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:
tram988 wrote:Lol anyone telling you wustl at sticker will give you better options than BC is nuts. BC> wustl in almost every way, placement, location , LRAP.


I agree. It's just that I have a relative who did WashU undergrad, and he is successful, so people around me hold WashU in high regard. Many people I know are from/living in St. Louis, so they are admittedly biased.

I'm just trying to understand their logic. Mainly it's coming from the US News rankings, but the fact that they persist despite a scholly from BC is interesting.


Honestly, it sounds like you want BC and your family or friends want WUSTL. I'm kind of in a similar position, where I want to go to BC pretty badly, but my family wants me to go to W&M (60k total COA for all three years at BC vs. 15k for all three years at W&M). It's important to remember you're the one who has to live with your decision, and not other people. You don't want to be spending the next three years regretting your decision (and possibly longer).

That said, also keep in mind that total COA includes cost of living for most people. That 95k you said will probably cost about 45k more, at least in Boston.

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:48 pm

RPK34 wrote:Honestly, it sounds like you want BC and your family or friends want WUSTL. I'm kind of in a similar position, where I want to go to BC pretty badly, but my family wants me to go to W&M (60k total COA for all three years at BC vs. 15k for all three years at W&M). It's important to remember you're the one who has to live with your decision, and not other people. You don't want to be spending the next three years regretting your decision (and possibly longer).

That said, also keep in mind that total COA includes cost of living for most people. That 95k you said will probably cost about 45k more, at least in Boston.


Yeah, you pretty much nailed it -- the family is pushing for WashU, but I prefer BC. I just find it amazing that no one can offer any objective evidence, preferably quantifiable data, that establishes that WashU Law leads to more stable, financially lucrative careers for its grads compared to BC.

Here's the data I would like to see as a side-by-side comparison for WashU Law grads vs. BC Law grads:

-- average lifetime earnings
-- average 10-year earnings
-- average 5-year earnings
-- average/median starting salary (not bogus, inflated stats from the schools themselves, please)
-- total number of jobs that grads obtained through alumni network over past 5 years in x number of U.S. states (to measure efficiency and reach of alumni network)
-- total number of job offers (accepted or declined) made to grads from both schools in past 5 years (perhaps restricted to NLJ 250 or some other similar listing)
-- total number of promotions earned by grads of both schools of past 10 years (to measure which grads "climb the ladder" more quickly)

This data probably would be impossible to collect. But hypothetically, if we had this data available to us, and if it showed that WashU was winning over BC in every category, THEN I would believe that WashU would be better for launching a legal career.

The strange thing is that people say WashU is a better school with more reach and a stronger alumni network, but no one ever has any of the above data to back up the claim. That doesn't mean it isn't true, but simply citing a higher US News ranking is suspicious to me because USN is basically a beauty pageant.

Anyway, true, we are the ones who have to live with the decision ... and Boston would indeed have a higher cost of living. But I wouldn't expect it to cost too much more for me personally, because I don't spend a lot beyond the basics in life. I'm pretty disciplined financially, so it doesn't worry me.




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