Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

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Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Washington University in St. Louis
16
25%
Boston College
47
75%
 
Total votes: 63

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:19 pm

Bottom line is those clerkship numbers are older-- the firm data is new. 19% is pretty weak IMO. BC places the best outside the t-14 (and UCLA) in firms according to the NLJ250. Something to consider.

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stratocophic
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:23 pm

tram988 wrote:Bottom line is those clerkship numbers are older-- the firm data is new. 19% is pretty weak IMO. BC places the best outside the t-14 (and UCLA) in firms according to the NLJ250. Something to consider.
Chicago and the rest of the midwest was slammed. Boston was already in recovery mode. Although TBF Boston is probably a better market generally since it only has 2 decent schools really feeding into it and is adjacent to NYC.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:36 pm

where are you guys getting these clerk numbers. there is no way bc or washu placed more than 6 or 7% into article 3 and thats being generous

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Patriot1208
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:38 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:where are you guys getting these clerk numbers. there is no way bc or washu placed more than 6 or 7% into article 3 and thats being generous

Yup that's right, and that would put wustl and bc normally around ~33% and ~40% respectively

seriously????
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby seriously???? » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:41 pm

what kind of ties do you have to STL? in terms of biglaw placement, your chances might be better at WUSTL if you have serious ties there, because the market is insular and favorable to STL natives...
trust me, it is really worth spending the time researching grads from BC in biglaw and see if there are any trends...I did this with WUSTL, and even found out that while they were placing 30% in biglaw, for regional outsiders you really needed to be top 10% to get biglaw, unless you had an engineering background or MBA.

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:44 pm


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Attorney
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Attorney » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:46 pm

tram988 wrote:BC places the best outside the t-14 (and UCLA) in firms according to the NLJ250. Something to consider.

Vandy, USC, and Texas often place better.

2010, like 2009, was a supremely bizarre placement class as far as the numbers. We saw BC and Duke coming in with roughly equal numbers. Doubt that ever happens again.

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:48 pm

Attorney wrote:
tram988 wrote:BC places the best outside the t-14 (and UCLA) in firms according to the NLJ250. Something to consider.

Vandy, USC, and Texas often place better.

2010, like 2009, was a supremely bizarre placement class as far as the numbers. We saw BC and Duke coming in with roughly equal numbers. Doubt that ever happens again.


BC has consistently held strong with its big law placement throughout the years. I don't see that changing. Check the historical NLJ250 rankings.

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:50 pm

Here's 2008, the prime. BC > Vandy http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

BC has a long, solid, tradition of placing very well into big firms.

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fatduck
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby fatduck » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:53 pm

is there something i don't know about at the root of the BC/BU hatred of WUSTL? the amount of boston rage on this site is hilarious, and it's almost always directed at WUSTL. you never really see any of the other schools in this range trolling the others so hard (ND, IUB, UIUC, GWU, Emory, etc.) i mean i'm familiar with boston, and understand the heavy concentration of douches in that city, but the laser focus on WUSTL just baffles me.

edit: i mean i realize this is a wustl vs. bc thread, but i think most people who spend a lot of time on these forums know what i mean. anyway, carry on.

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:55 pm

fatduck wrote:is there something i don't know about at the root of the BC/BU hatred of WUSTL? the amount of boston rage on this site is hilarious, and it's almost always directed at WUSTL. you never really see any of the other schools in this range trolling the others so hard (ND, IUB, UIUC, GWU, Emory, etc.) i mean i'm familiar with boston, and understand the heavy concentration of douches in that city, but the laser focus on WUSTL just baffles me.

anyway, carry on.

I don't see the hatred. I just don't think people understand why WUSTL is ranked so highly given its terrible placement statistics compared to other schools similarly ranked.

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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Attorney » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:05 pm

fatduck wrote:is there something i don't know about at the root of the BC/BU hatred of WUSTL? the amount of boston rage on this site is hilarious, and it's almost always directed at WUSTL. you never really see any of the other schools in this range trolling the others so hard (ND, IUB, UIUC, GWU, Emory, etc.) i mean i'm familiar with boston, and understand the heavy concentration of douches in that city, but the laser focus on WUSTL just baffles me.

anyway, carry on.

I'm likely attending BC in the fall, and I agree with you. I love Boston itself, so no love to your commentary there... I think it mainly stems from the relatively high BC/BU placement rankings versus their relatively low US News rankings. WUSTL, on the other hand, is in the magical "teens" of US News rankings!

Basically WUSTL is the highest ranked school that places poorly compared to BC/BU. That puts a target on its back for all those nasty east coasters with devil tongues.

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fatduck
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby fatduck » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:06 pm

Attorney wrote:
fatduck wrote:is there something i don't know about at the root of the BC/BU hatred of WUSTL? the amount of boston rage on this site is hilarious, and it's almost always directed at WUSTL. you never really see any of the other schools in this range trolling the others so hard (ND, IUB, UIUC, GWU, Emory, etc.) i mean i'm familiar with boston, and understand the heavy concentration of douches in that city, but the laser focus on WUSTL just baffles me.

anyway, carry on.

I'm likely attending BC in the fall, and I agree with you. I love Boston itself, so no love to your commentary there... I think it mainly stems from the relatively high BC/BU placement rankings versus their relatively low US News rankings. WUSTL, on the other hand, is in the magical "teens" of US News rankings!

Basically WUSTL is the highest ranked school that places poorly compared to BC/BU. That puts a target on its back for all those nasty east coasters with devil tongues.

oh i love boston - my sister lives there, and i visit all the time. doesn't mean the population isn't extremely douchy.

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Attorney
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby Attorney » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:07 pm

fatduck wrote:oh i love boston ... doesn't mean the population isn't extremely douchy.

:lol:
Fair enough.

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stratocophic
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:09 pm

tram988 wrote:
fatduck wrote:is there something i don't know about at the root of the BC/BU hatred of WUSTL? the amount of boston rage on this site is hilarious, and it's almost always directed at WUSTL. you never really see any of the other schools in this range trolling the others so hard (ND, IUB, UIUC, GWU, Emory, etc.) i mean i'm familiar with boston, and understand the heavy concentration of douches in that city, but the laser focus on WUSTL just baffles me.

anyway, carry on.

I don't see the hatred. I just don't think people understand why WUSTL is ranked so highly given its terrible placement statistics compared to other schools similarly ranked.
And there you have it. Preftige envy. Dude, it's the USNWR - who cares? All the rankings are good for is making WUSTLers feel good and trolling Boalt and GTTTown kids.
seriously???? wrote:what kind of ties do you have to STL? in terms of biglaw placement, your chances might be better at WUSTL if you have serious ties there, because the market is insular and favorable to STL natives...
trust me, it is really worth spending the time researching grads from BC in biglaw and see if there are any trends...I did this with WUSTL, and even found out that while they were placing 30% in biglaw, for regional outsiders you really needed to be top 10% to get biglaw, unless you had an engineering background or MBA.
I don't think that's true. Maybe for the St. Louis market, but everyone I've talked to says that top 1/3 has at least a shot right now, maybe down to median if you're exceptional in some way (awesome work experience or EE PhD from MIT or something). I doubt top 1/3 kids with no ties are getting St. Louis b/c it's insular, so these people are going/historically have gone elsewhere, presumably their home markets or Chicago/NY.

Edit: and I think there's NO WAY that 10% of our class (27/28 kids) is getting NLJ positions in St. Louis at this point when we're competing with T14s coming home and the top of SLU and Missouri's classes. Therefore 10% or more have to be getting NLJ jobs elsewhere.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:08 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:where are you guys getting these clerk numbers. there is no way bc or washu placed more than 6 or 7% into article 3 and thats being generous

Yup that's right, and that would put wustl and bc normally around ~33% and ~40% respectively


why so generous with WUSTL. 19+7 is like 25.

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:09 pm

seriously???? wrote:what kind of ties do you have to STL? in terms of biglaw placement, your chances might be better at WUSTL if you have serious ties there, because the market is insular and favorable to STL natives...
trust me, it is really worth spending the time researching grads from BC in biglaw and see if there are any trends...I did this with WUSTL, and even found out that while they were placing 30% in biglaw, for regional outsiders you really needed to be top 10% to get biglaw, unless you had an engineering background or MBA.


Well, I went to undergrad and graduate school in St. Louis (but not at WashU). I grew up there. So, with a WashU law degree, my prospects would probably be good in the Midwest assuming my grades are solid.

I visited BC and enjoyed it. But my family has been really pushing me hard on WashU because a family member worked there, and another family member did his undergrad there, and they think the world of WashU. So they think that WashU is better overall than BC, perhaps because of USNews, or just because of its general reputation.

Maybe they are right, maybe not. They are giving me a lot of anecdotal statements along the lines of WashU is the "Harvard of the Midwest," and that its alumni network is outstanding, and that overall a more diverse group of people go to school there.

Based on what I'm reading BC and the market it feeds might be better for my goals, but I'm having a hard time deciding because I'm a St. Louis native and if I do well at WashU, I could move east or west eventually. Before WashU made me an offer the other day, however, I was totally excited about moving to Boston. Now I don't know what to do.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:11 pm

tram988 wrote:
Attorney wrote:
tram988 wrote:BC places the best outside the t-14 (and UCLA) in firms according to the NLJ250. Something to consider.

Vandy, USC, and Texas often place better.

2010, like 2009, was a supremely bizarre placement class as far as the numbers. We saw BC and Duke coming in with roughly equal numbers. Doubt that ever happens again.


BC has consistently held strong with its big law placement throughout the years. I don't see that changing. Check the historical NLJ250 rankings.


Saying BC places best into biglaw outside of the T14 is a stretch. Vandy probably places equal or better and USC/UCLA can hold their own.

tram988
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby tram988 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:55 pm

Well according to the last NLJ250 stats its pretty damn close. I concede nlj250 does not equal big law, but its pretty representative.

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stratocophic
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby stratocophic » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:18 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:where are you guys getting these clerk numbers. there is no way bc or washu placed more than 6 or 7% into article 3 and thats being generous

Yup that's right, and that would put wustl and bc normally around ~33% and ~40% respectively


why so generous with WUSTL. 19+7 is like 25.

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:43 pm

If anyone else out there has an opinion on my situation, please share it. I'm still undecided on which would be a better choice -- WashU or BC.

How about this -- in my mind, one of the main arguments in favor of WashU is that it has a higher US News ranking, not just for law but for undergrad as well. The argument could be made that although US News is subjective and limited in scope, it's a fact of life, and because WashU has a significantly higher ranking in multiple areas, it's a better institution overall than BC.

I'm not sure how I feel about this argument, but what do you think? Should I pick WashU because it has a significantly better reputation according to US News?

Please everyone, offer your thoughts. Whether I like it or not, these are my best two offers, and I really need everyone's help in deciding.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:46 pm

Visit both & then decide. Ask WashUStL for scholarship money because many hold BC in higher regard due to its location & superior job placement.

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bk1
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:48 pm

BC has better employment stats because it feeds into Boston and, to a lesser extent, NYC. WUSTL places into St. Louis/Chicago, the former which is small and the latter which is decimated, and the midwest generally.

I have a hard time recommending either of these schools at sticker with their placements both being hurt by the economy. I think the difference is just not enough to trump what should truly matter: whether you want to live in the northeast or the midwest.

That being said, I think the most prudent plan is something along the lines of either retake/reapply (if possible) or taking a worse school with a larger scholly.

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stratocophic
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby stratocophic » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:53 pm

lincolnadams74 wrote:If anyone else out there has an opinion on my situation, please share it. I'm still undecided on which would be a better choice -- WashU or BC.

How about this -- in my mind, one of the main arguments in favor of WashU is that it has a higher US News ranking, not just for law but for undergrad as well. The argument could be made that although US News is subjective and limited in scope, it's a fact of life, and because WashU has a significantly higher ranking in multiple areas, it's a better institution overall than BC.

I'm not sure how I feel about this argument, but what do you think? Should I pick WashU because it has a significantly better reputation according to US News?

Please everyone, offer your thoughts. Whether I like it or not, these are my best two offers, and I really need everyone's help in deciding.
No. No one should ever. EVER. Pick a school solely because of its USNWR ranking - at least not for law school. I like Canadian Wolf's advice though. Ask for more money at WashU and cite concerns about the debt and your ability to repay etc. I think at least 1 person has already pried a bigger scholarship out of them, and people are in the process of withdrawing and freeing up more money. Visit both schools as well - if you like one significantly better than the other, that might make your decision for you. You're not exactly choosing between Harvard and a T25, fit's a worthwhile factor to consider

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lincolnadams74
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Re: Washington University (STL) or Boston College?

Postby lincolnadams74 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:58 pm

bk1 wrote:BC has better employment stats because it feeds into Boston and, to a lesser extent, NYC. WUSTL places into St. Louis/Chicago, the former which is small and the latter which is decimated, and the midwest generally.

I have a hard time recommending either of these schools at sticker with their placements both being hurt by the economy. I think the difference is just not enough to trump what should truly matter: whether you want to live in the northeast or the midwest.

That being said, I think the most prudent plan is something along the lines of either retake/reapply (if possible) or taking a worse school with a larger scholly.


Retaking and/or reapplying isn't really an option for me at this point, for a variety of reasons. Yes, either school at sticker is an unappealing notion ... but there is not much I can do. In my case, the "worse school with a larger scholly" would be UC Davis -- no offense to them. But I really don't want to go there.

I would prefer the northeast. But back to my question: Should I pick WashU because of the higher ranking? They are telling me they are a "national school." What's your reaction?




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