Loyola University - Chicago vs. PSU Forum

[tschannena]

Okay so here are my offers:

Loyola - $12,000 / year
PSU - $21,000 / year

I've visited both places, and I know I definitely want to live and work in an urban area when I graduate. I absolutely love Chicago, but going to Loyola will mean around $30,000 more in debt than if I were to go to PSU. With Loyola being in a city with Northwestern, U of C, and Kent (which is now significantly higher in rank), I'm worried about competition within Chicago.

I liked both places, but PSU seems kind of in the middle of nowhere. Basically, my heart's in the city, but I know I'm getting a better financial deal at PSU (it's also substantially higher in the rankings now than Loyola).

Thoughts?

[aknecht]

I really think you have to figure out where you want to be after graduation. if all you need is a big city, go to school in a big city like NYC. If you have a burning passion for Chicago (like I do), go to Loyola. Be warned though, its a very tough market at the moment and ND, NW, and UChi all place people before Loyola grads get looked at.

But I wouldn't worry about Kent being too much competition. Their jump in the ranking is a very recent development and will take a long time to be recognized by the Chicago legal community (if ever) and their specialty area tends to be anything IP or tech related. Talk to any Chicago lawyer who has been around awhile and they will most likely tell you the ranking of Chicago schools is: UChi, NW, DePaul/Loyola (tied), Kent, and then John Marshall

[DaCzar9]

I really think you have to figure out where you want to be after graduation. if all you need is a big city, go to school in a big city like NYC. If you have a burning passion for Chicago (like I do), go to Loyola. Be warned though, its a very tough market at the moment and ND, NW, and UChi all place people before Loyola grads get looked at.

But I wouldn't worry about Kent being too much competition. Their jump in the ranking is a very recent development and will take a long time to be recognized by the Chicago legal community (if ever) and their specialty area tends to be anything IP or tech related. Talk to any Chicago lawyer who has been around awhile and they will most likely tell you the ranking of Chicago schools is: UChi, NW, DePaul/Loyola (tied), Kent, and then John Marshall

i think your wrong about kent. on another note, there are more schools you compete with than uchicago and northwestern. all t-14s place in chicago, notre dame, wisconsin, minnesota, iowa, indiana, washu, illinois, and then you have depaul, kent and loyola. good luck

[StacyStrong]

honestly, most people i know have never even heard of kent and i've lived in chicago for 22 years

[Aberzombie1892]

i think your wrong about kent. on another note, there are more schools you compete with than uchicago and northwestern. all t-14s place in chicago, notre dame, wisconsin, minnesota, iowa, indiana, washu, illinois, and then you have depaul, kent and loyola. good luck

You would be surprised how relatively few students from Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and Indiana actually end up in Chicago. Of course, Chicago is not their primary market. But it is still noticeable.

[jcunni5]

from what i've heard

Uchi
NU/ UM
UIUC/ND
random Big 10's/WUSTL
Kent/ Luc (with kent usually considered the better of the two)
Depaul
John M
NIU

edit: i dont think i would touch a chi T2 right now but have heard that going to ls in a city helps w/ employment and networking but that city shouldnt be chi as of now

[administrator]

I really think you have to figure out where you want to be after graduation. if all you need is a big city, go to school in a big city like NYC. If you have a burning passion for Chicago (like I do), go to Loyola. Be warned though, its a very tough market at the moment and ND, NW, and UChi all place people before Loyola grads get looked at.

But I wouldn't worry about Kent being too much competition. Their jump in the ranking is a very recent development and will take a long time to be recognized by the Chicago legal community (if ever) and their specialty area tends to be anything IP or tech related. Talk to any Chicago lawyer who has been around awhile and they will most likely tell you the ranking of Chicago schools is: UChi, NW, DePaul/Loyola (tied), Kent, and then John Marshall

This is incorrect. Kent is generally considered the best of the Chicago schools (outside of U of C/NU). Student quality as reflected by LSAT/GPA, etc. also backs this up/reflects that. Also, there is no way DePaul is considered better Kent. That is clearly inaccurate.

[JamMasterJ]

Although Chicago's legal market is in a rough patch, I would think that we'll see some recovery by 2014.
Loyola places more students in Chicago that all but 4 schools (though some of that may be a selection bias from ND kids leaving the region). If you want to work in Chicago, it's a better option than most.
On an unrelated note, I would recalculate your COA. 9K/yr at PSU plus it being a few grand cheaper and having a MUCH lower cost of living will probably give you a COA closer to 50K less.

[aknecht]

I really think you have to figure out where you want to be after graduation. if all you need is a big city, go to school in a big city like NYC. If you have a burning passion for Chicago (like I do), go to Loyola. Be warned though, its a very tough market at the moment and ND, NW, and UChi all place people before Loyola grads get looked at.

But I wouldn't worry about Kent being too much competition. Their jump in the ranking is a very recent development and will take a long time to be recognized by the Chicago legal community (if ever) and their specialty area tends to be anything IP or tech related. Talk to any Chicago lawyer who has been around awhile and they will most likely tell you the ranking of Chicago schools is: UChi, NW, DePaul/Loyola (tied), Kent, and then John Marshall

This is incorrect. Kent is generally considered the best of the Chicago schools (outside of U of C/NU). Student quality as reflected by LSAT/GPA, etc. also backs this up/reflects that. Also, there is no way DePaul is considered better Kent. That is clearly inaccurate.

clearly inaccurate? I really would beg to differ. I don't have a horse in this race as I will probably end up choosing Loyola. If you aren't studying IP law, DePaul could be considered a better bet. DePaul's alumni network also helps boost their rep. Lately, I will agree that Kent has been getting more positive press but both schools are very close. If things continue the way they've been going, I'll agree that Kent is the way to go but not at the moment.

[administrator]

"clearly inaccurate? I really would beg to differ. I don't have a horse in this race as I will probably end up choosing Loyola. If you aren't studying IP law, DePaul could be considered a better bet. DePaul's alumni network also helps boost their rep. Lately, I will agree that Kent has been getting more positive press but both schools are very close. If things continue the way they've been going, I'll agree that Kent is the way to go but not at the moment."

A lot of Kent students would be appalled by the above. Many of them just missed U of C/NU. Quite a few were on the waiting list at one or both of these schools. Some were even accepted at these schools and chose Kent for the scholarship money. Loyola and DePaul were not even on the radar for a lot of them. I personally was accepted at Wisconsin, Iowa, Fordham, and a few other schools in that range so Kent being the third best option in the city of Chicago was a large part of my decision to attend. From talking to Kent students, many of them were in similar positions and feel the same way.

[aknecht]

A lot of Kent students would be appalled by the above. Many of them just missed U of C/NU. Quite a few were on the waiting list at one or both of these schools. Some were even accepted at these schools and chose Kent for the scholarship money. Loyola and DePaul were not even on the radar for a lot of them. I personally was accepted at Wisconsin, Iowa, Fordham, and a few other schools in that range so Kent being the third best option in the city of Chicago was a large part of my decision to attend. From talking to Kent students, many of them were in similar positions and feel the same way.

you are talking anecdotal which is fine. You think there aren't people at Loyola who JUST missed NW/UChi? there absolutely are. What Kent has historically been known for is their IP program and I admit openly that it is a great program and if that were the field I were looking into, I'd choose Kent. I'm not going into IP law though. If you want to talk anecdotes, the girl (a friend) who gave me a tour of Kent (really nice facility BTW) told me that she didn't get in to Loyola or DePaul and if she had, she would have picked either of them over Kent. Its one person but you wanted to go down that road.

I will say that they are par schools with very close USN rankings, NLJ 250 rankings, median LSAT scores they accept, etc. Anyone that isn't set on IP law who wants to practice in Chicago that doesn't consider Loyola and/or DePaul along with Kent is doing themselves a disservice.

BTW this thread was about Loyola and not Kent. You seem to have a vested interest in Kent.

And Stacystrong did bring up a decent point, Kent has little name recognition in general when compared to both DePaul and Loyola. If that matters to you, its something to take into consideration. Call me shallow or superficial but saying "I went to IIT's law school" while explaining it because of the look of confusion on someone's face when you say Kent does turn me off a bit. I did that for my undergrad school and am really tired of explaining that my small, private school on the east coast is actually a much better school than tons of midwest schools with well known names. It is a factor to consider.

[jelly]

I would say that although aknecht is correct that the people who just missed U of C/NU are at Loyola also, there are or at least appear to be many more of these types at Kent. Echoing a previous poster, people seem to think of Kent as a school for reasonably smart applicants that don't have an amazing lsat score or gpa to get them into UIUC, ND, WUSTL, NU, U of C, etc., but have decent separation from people coming out of John Marshall, DePaul, Loyola, etc.
As far as name recognition, Kent is well recognized within the legal field. You're right that it isn't recognized as much with laymen/people outside of law, but that is changing as more people hear of it. Still, if name recognition bothers you that much, you may be happier at Loyola or DePaul. Kent is also strong in fields outside of IP law, like labor and employment law, trial advocacy, and environmental law, to name a few, so that's something to keep in mind as well.
To get back on topic, to answer the original question posted in this thread (Loyola v. PSU), the answer should largely come down to where you prefer to practice ($30K isn't a huge difference when you consider your starting salary in an urban area compared to a smaller place).