Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which one for big law? (scholarships yrly)

WUSTL - $38,000
8
14%
GWU - $30,000 + 1st year living expenses (16,000)
31
53%
W&L - $40,820
2
3%
W&M - $20,000
0
No votes
UT - $0
18
31%
 
Total votes: 59

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Robespierre
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby Robespierre » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:23 pm

bk1 wrote:
0LNewbie wrote:I don't think that 5% is big enough to sway someone (more than location/cost should). At 10% (and maybe that is just my preference for round numbers) it starts to feel like a substantial difference (i.e. BU/BC vs GW) and would sway me.


True, but in this particular case I think the difference IS 10%, or even more. GW outplaces WUSTL in biglaw generally by 6%, and the effect here is magnified because OP is interested in TWO of GW's main cities (DC, NY) and NONE of WUSTL's (STL).

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bk1
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Robespierre wrote:True, but in this particular case I think the difference IS 10%, or even more. GW outplaces WUSTL in biglaw generally by 6%, and the effect here is magnified because OP is interested in TWO of GW's main cities (DC, NY) and NONE of WUSTL's (STL).


I believe, though I could be wrong, that it is disingenuous to call STL WUSTL's primary biglaw market because I am fairly sure it is Chicago.

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Robespierre
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby Robespierre » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:31 pm

bk1 wrote:GW sent their 2011-2012 CoA to admits and it came out to $74,400 (this is $4000 more than last year, $2000 more in tuition, $2000 more in room/board).

For WUSTL I used their 2010-2011 CoA (http://law.wustl.edu/admissions/pages.aspx?id=8413) which came out to $63,125.

GW's total = 74.4k*3 - 105k = 118,200 (I rounded up to $120k).

WUSTL's total = 63.1k*3 - 38k*3 = 75,100 (I rounded up to $80k because I was using old numbers and it is very likely that their tuition shot up).


OK, thanks for the interesting info. I think you can get away with less than a 30K COL in DC, but if that's what the school says, so be it.

So the grand total difference is 40K. I still think the extra money is justified by GW's better placement in the particular cities you're interested in. But it's a close one. Good luck!

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Patriot1208
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:33 pm

bk1 wrote:
Robespierre wrote:True, but in this particular case I think the difference IS 10%, or even more. GW outplaces WUSTL in biglaw generally by 6%, and the effect here is magnified because OP is interested in TWO of GW's main cities (DC, NY) and NONE of WUSTL's (STL).


I believe, though I could be wrong, that it is disingenuous to call STL WUSTL's primary biglaw market because I am fairly sure it is Chicago.

Definitely true, st. louis firms are very skeptical of WUSTL grads because most are not from the midwest and/or St. Louis. I've actually heard stories of people that live less than an hour or two away their whole lives and still having problems with firms trusting that they want to stay in St. Louis.

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Robespierre
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby Robespierre » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:40 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Robespierre wrote:True, but in this particular case I think the difference IS 10%, or even more. GW outplaces WUSTL in biglaw generally by 6%, and the effect here is magnified because OP is interested in TWO of GW's main cities (DC, NY) and NONE of WUSTL's (STL).


I believe, though I could be wrong, that it is disingenuous to call STL WUSTL's primary biglaw market because I am fairly sure it is Chicago.

Definitely true, st. louis firms are very skeptical of WUSTL grads because most are not from the midwest and/or St. Louis. I've actually heard stories of people that live less than an hour or two away their whole lives and still having problems with firms trusting that they want to stay in St. Louis.


OK, I'll accept that WUSTL's primary Biglaw market is Chicago, although there's no data and I'm skeptical. DC and NYC are most definitely GW's primary markets. So the score is GW 2, WUSTL 1.

Rule11
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby Rule11 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:42 pm

WTF? Don't go to law school with those options if you're aiming for biglaw. Surprising that someone clever (or at least industrious) enough to get those numbers would be so confused by probabilities. I guess you must think (like a lot of high GPA folks) that you did well in undergrad, so you'll just do well in law school too. You'll "work harder than everyone else," or something. Sadly, there's very little correlation, and that strategy rarely works.

That this thread even fostered serious discussion is a stain on the credibility of this site. The guy said he wants biglaw? From GW or WUStl? For money? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to crunch those numbers. UT at that price is no prize either.

OP, you likely have a bright future ahead of you. There's no need for you to play russian roulette.

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bk1
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:43 pm

Robespierre wrote:
OK, thanks for the interesting info. I think you can get away with less than a 30K COL in DC, but if that's what the school says, so be it.

So the grand total difference is 40K. I still think the extra money is justified by GW's better placement in the particular cities you're interested in. But it's a close one. Good luck!


It's not all CoL. iirc, GW estimates 18.5k.for room/board. You then have fees, books, health instance, etc to get up to that 30k.

PiersonVee
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby PiersonVee » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:46 pm

I am sorry to say this, but you need to either attend UT and practice biglaw in Texas, or reassess your expectations. Biglaw is possible from all of those other schools (particularly George Washington if you have a technical background for IP/patent work), but the odds are not in your favor. Many people have attended the schools you mentioned with 160K biglaw expectations, only to be disappointed because they finished too close to the median. You can still find a great job with median grades from one of those schools, but probably not the kind of biglaw position that have in mind.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

phoenixwright83
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby phoenixwright83 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:50 pm

Rule11 wrote:WTF? Don't go to law school with those options if you're aiming for biglaw. Surprising that someone clever (or at least industrious) enough to get those numbers would be so confused by probabilities. I guess you must think (like a lot of high GPA folks) that you did well in undergrad, so you'll just do well in law school too. You'll "work harder than everyone else," or something. Sadly, there's very little correlation, and that strategy rarely works.

That this thread even fostered serious discussion is a stain on the credibility of this site. The guy said he wants biglaw? From GW or WUStl? For money? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to crunch those numbers. UT at that price is no prize either.

OP, you likely have a bright future ahead of you. There's no need for you to play russian roulette.


So, if not these two then what would you suggest? I do not plan on playing the probabilities, which is why I created this post. However, I do not have the wherewithal to set aside another year to wait for a test score that may or may not be higher than my previous. I know that I can study hard, get a tutor, buy books, etc. and have a possibility of increasing my score, but that again is like playing Russian roulette, which is what I would like to avoid.

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bk1
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:58 pm

Going to these schools with no desires other than biglaw is like russian roulette because if you fail you will be saddled with either large debt or a job you don't want. Retaking is more like playing regular roulette where you are risking a year for a much better chance at biglaw. The risks are not proportional at all. Though you would have to assess how likely a better score is considering you've already taken it thrice.

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jcunni5
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby jcunni5 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:58 pm

Ed to UVA seriously

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:00 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

Schools you should apply/have applied to:
BC - 33.58% chance
BU - 30% chance
Vandy - 29.81% chance
USC - 28.72% chance
Texas - 26.65% chance
Fordham - 25.68% chance
GW - 24.76% chance
Notre Dame - 23.84% chance
Emory - 21.18% chance

I wouldn't go to any school that doesn't give you even a 20% chance at biglaw. Out of the school to which you applied, I would go with Texas. However, you have to consider location when choosing between the top 2 on your list (GW and Texas).

Location is probably going to matter more than these ranking of schools based on biglaw placement. However, if location doesn't matter to you, go with the school that gives you the best chance at biglaw without taking on too much debt (*personally defined).

phoenixwright83
Posts: 39
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby phoenixwright83 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:41 pm

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

Schools you should apply/have applied to:
BC - 33.58% chance
BU - 30% chance
Vandy - 29.81% chance
USC - 28.72% chance
Texas - 26.65% chance
Fordham - 25.68% chance
GW - 24.76% chance
Notre Dame - 23.84% chance
Emory - 21.18% chance

I wouldn't go to any school that doesn't give you even a 20% chance at biglaw. Out of the school to which you applied, I would go with Texas. However, you have to consider location when choosing between the top 2 on your list (GW and Texas).

Location is probably going to matter more than these ranking of schools based on biglaw placement. However, if location doesn't matter to you, go with the school that gives you the best chance at biglaw without taking on too much debt (*personally defined).


I applied to all except BC, Fordham and Emory. I had no idea BC and BU had such high big law percentages.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby YourCaptain » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:13 pm

If that GWU amount is per year this is a relatively easy choice.

I voted GWU on that assumption.

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predent/prelaw
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby predent/prelaw » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:18 pm

People are going to say UT, <--- this is life and we must deal with crazies. Go to GW! Do you want to live somewhere for 3 years and uproot the life you have built there or would you rather just establish it now this also goes for summer internships.

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ahduth
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby ahduth » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:36 pm

predent/prelaw wrote:People are going to say UT, <--- this is life and we must deal with crazies. Go to GW! Do you want to live somewhere for 3 years and uproot the life you have built there or would you rather just establish it now this also goes for summer internships.


I don't think they're crazy necessarily, but the idea of living in Texas for three years, let alone my entire career, is a Texas-sized commitment that I personally would not be able to take on.

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dood
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby dood » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:07 pm

OP: the differences in the chance u get big law in the cities u listed - between UT, GW, WUSTL are negligible. COMPLETELY NEGLIGIBLE in the grand scheme of things. visit the schools and see where u would enjoy studying and spending the next 3 years of ur life.

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dood
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby dood » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:10 pm

for example, though UT places 26% in big firms, 74% of those students are placed in texas. versus gw 20% big firms, but 77% in DC and NYC.

if u search hard enough u can find old lawfirmaddict blogs that list schools by "one track placement" to get some figures and verify what i mean. or u can just trust me.

keg411
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby keg411 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:40 pm

OP, hang in there at Cornell. I think there's a good shot you get off hold, and it would pretty much be ideal for your numbers/goals (although I think the ED UVA next cycle suggestion isn't a bad one).

Of your options, I'd say GW over UT based on location preference. No BU/BC with $$?

phoenixwright83
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby phoenixwright83 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:20 pm

keg411 wrote:OP, hang in there at Cornell. I think there's a good shot you get off hold, and it would pretty much be ideal for your numbers/goals (although I think the ED UVA next cycle suggestion isn't a bad one).

Of your options, I'd say GW over UT based on location preference. No BU/BC with $$?


I was waitlisted at BU and did not apply to BC. I contacted Cornell and was told my file is in rereview and to expect a decision soon. So I'm hoping for the best, but GW does seem to be the majority view. Thanks for the input.

phoenixwright83
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Re: Please Help Me Choose for Big Law

Postby phoenixwright83 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:22 pm

dood wrote:for example, though UT places 26% in big firms, 74% of those students are placed in texas. versus gw 20% big firms, but 77% in DC and NYC.

if u search hard enough u can find old lawfirmaddict blogs that list schools by "one track placement" to get some figures and verify what i mean. or u can just trust me.


I trust you. Those figures seem to ge about right. And my location preference points at GW. thanks for the info




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