Wigmore (full ride) at NU vs. Harvard Forum

[Shloime]

Hey guys,

I was equally shocked and grateful to get both offers. These are the two highest-ranked schools I've been accepted to after having blanketed the T14 in mid-November (okay, excluding Duke, considering the new rankings)! I apologize if the question comes off sounding douchey; I was just hoping to get some people to weigh in/debate. I'm strongly leaning toward Harvard, but I also want to entertain the option of a debt-free education at the school I was most excited about until I got the Harvard call 2 weeks ago.


Now, a bit about myself:

I plan on shooting for BigLaw, and possibly switching to business later.

My wife will be following me to law school. Both of our families live in NY, and we will want to visit relatively often.

I'm not especially risk averse, but I'm no Vegas gambler either.


Thanks in advance for your input!

[Justathought]

Hey guys,

I was equally shocked and grateful to get both offers. These are the two highest-ranked schools I've been accepted to after having blanketed the T14 in mid-November (okay, excluding Duke, considering the new rankings)! I apologize if the question comes off sounding douchey; I was just hoping to get some people to weigh in/debate. I'm strongly leaning toward Harvard, but I also want to entertain the option of a debt-free education at the school I was most excited about until I got the Harvard call 2 weeks ago.


Now, a bit about myself:

I plan on shooting for BigLaw, and possibly switching to business later.

My wife will be following me to law school. Both of our families live in NY, and we will want to visit relatively often.

I'm not especially risk averse, but I'm no Vegas gambler either.


Thanks in advance for your input!

I don't think taking the debt at Harvard qualifies you for the World Series of Poker; it doesn't strike me as a gamble whatsoever. Harvard offers all the opportunity you could possibly want and its so much closer to your family. This is a pretty easy choice in my opinion.

[SMA22]

I looooove NU, but it sounds like Harvard is a better fit for you--good luck.

[duckmoney]

Any stipulations at NU?

[sarahlawg]

Any stipulations at NU?

No stipulations on the Wigmore.
I'm impressed with how many people are saying take the money at NU over Harvard... OP are you not getting any need-based aid from Harvard? Congrats on your options!

[Justathought]

This is an East coast guy with the option of investing in Harvard. The rewards: High probability of a great career and close to family for the next three years. Spending the money on Harvard, in this situation, does not strike me as a haphazard idea.

[CreativityKing]

Tough call.

I don't really have anything productive to add, but I wanted to tag this to read later.

[Shloime]

Thanks so much for all of the input!

sarahlawg - (sorry - my "quote" links are down) I'm really unsure about what kind of $$ to expect from Harvard. My Dad won't be filing taxes until October, so I won't know anything definite until then, but I do hope to be getting an estimate from Harvard next week, based on my Dad's guesstimates. If I'm lucky I may get a very generous grant for my first year, but I doubt that I'll get much if anything for the following two years.

[CreativityKing]

I was hoping there would be more discussion about this.

What if one isn't sure about biglaw, and is thus a bit apprehensive about paying back >$100k worth of loans?

What if one wants to work in Chicago after graduation?

[sarahh]

Rats, I was hoping there would be more discussion about this.

What if one isn't sure about biglaw, and is thus a bit apprehensive about paying back >$100k worth of loans?

What if one wants to work in Chicago after graduation?

Do you think you would do non-profit work if you don't do biglaw? Harvard has a pretty good loan repayment assistance program. http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/lipp/index.html

[Fresh]

Many people are, and will, give up UChicago Rubensteins* for Harvard. Harvard is special. Without having really really strong desires to attend NU for some known, definite reason, people will tell you Harvard. As will I. Go to Harvard and don't look back


*UChicago is a haven for midwest biglaw and has a solid new LRAP, yet people ditch these for HLS

[MrPapagiorgio]

Harvard for all the reasons posted above.

And on a more superficial note, tell someone that you are going to Northwestern for law school. Then tell someone else you are going to Harvard. Note the differences about their responses and think about this question again.

[bigkahuna2020]

Rats, I was hoping there would be more discussion about this.

What if one isn't sure about biglaw, and is thus a bit apprehensive about paying back >$100k worth of loans?

What if one wants to work in Chicago after graduation?

Do you think you would do non-profit work if you don't do biglaw? Harvard has a pretty good loan repayment assistance program. http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/lipp/index.html

More than just PI work---it cover basically anything as far as I understand---with no income ceiling. Theoretically if you are making 100k at a firm and have some INSANE amount of debt from LS, they will contribute

[09042014]

Harvard for all the reasons posted above.

And on a more superficial note, tell someone that you are going to Northwestern for law school. Then tell someone else you are going to Harvard. Note the differences about their responses and think about this question again.

Tell someone you are going to have 60K in debt compared to 180K and note the differences.

Harvard is clearly a better school. But it's not some magic door to big law, and big law isn't some magic door to riches. The placement difference is probably about 20-25% added to your class rank. But you also have to consider, you'll probably do a little worse at Harvard than at NU.

Most people only last 3ish years in big law. Anything past 5 is something you shouldn't plan on. You aren't going to pay your loans back in five years from Harvard, but you will be able to from NU with full tuition scholarship.

You could end up at a v20 wishing you were at a V50 with 150K less debt so you could buy a car and a condo. Or you might be unemployed wishing you had the lower v100 job from Harvard even with all that debt.

This is definitely a risk/reward decision, but it's not as one sided as everyone in this thread has been saying. And don't listen to 0L's during down Uchi for free over Harvard. That is just retarded.

[Fresh]

Tell someone you are going to have 60K in debt compared to 180K and note the differences.

Harvard is clearly a better school. But it's not some magic door to big law, and big law isn't some magic door to riches. The placement difference is probably about 20-25% added to your class rank. But you also have to consider, you'll probably do a little worse at Harvard than at NU.

Most people only last 3ish years in big law. Anything past 5 is something you shouldn't plan on. You aren't going to pay your loans back in five years from Harvard, but you will be able to from NU with full tuition scholarship.

You could end up at a v20 wishing you were at a V50 with 150K less debt so you could buy a car and a condo. Or you might be unemployed wishing you had the lower v100 job from Harvard even with all that debt.

This is definitely a risk/reward decision, but it's not as one sided as everyone in this thread has been saying. And don't listen to 0L's during down Uchi for free over Harvard. That is just retarded.

Do listen to them and try to find out why. Neither UChi or NU on full-tuition scholarships will be free (assuming you have to take out loans for CoL, you're still looking at the 60Kish number). Of course 0L's are infinitely dumber than Desert Fox, but that doesn't prevent them from reasoning through decisions. Hearing their reasoning will most likely be helpful, so if there are people offering it, it would be wise not to ignore them. If they're as retarded as Desert Fox says, then at least you're informed of that. But I imagine they can't be that dumb...

[Shloime]

Thanks everyone for all of the input. I'm enjoying the debate.

Pretty sure it's going to be Harvard for me (I have some additional personal reasons), but I want to make sure that I first hear out all relevant arguments. Thanks everyone for helping with that!

[Attorney]

I don't think taking the debt at Harvard qualifies you for the World Series of Poker

[jcunni5]

Harvard is awesome, but if you want big law, NU with very little debt sounds like a pretty good deal I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand like a lot of people are doing

[CreativityKing]

Harvard for all the reasons posted above.

And on a more superficial note, tell someone that you are going to Northwestern for law school. Then tell someone else you are going to Harvard. Note the differences about their responses and think about this question again.

Tell someone you are going to have 60K in debt compared to 180K and note the differences.

Harvard is clearly a better school. But it's not some magic door to big law, and big law isn't some magic door to riches. The placement difference is probably about 20-25% added to your class rank. But you also have to consider, you'll probably do a little worse at Harvard than at NU.

Most people only last 3ish years in big law. Anything past 5 is something you shouldn't plan on. You aren't going to pay your loans back in five years from Harvard, but you will be able to from NU with full tuition scholarship.

You could end up at a v20 wishing you were at a V50 with 150K less debt so you could buy a car and a condo. Or you might be unemployed wishing you had the lower v100 job from Harvard even with all that debt.

This is definitely a risk/reward decision, but it's not as one sided as everyone in this thread has been saying. And don't listen to 0L's during down Uchi for free over Harvard. That is just retarded.

What if I further noted that I have enough in savings that I wouldn't have to take any debt to attend NU? Obviously this would take a chunk out of my debt at Harvard as well - I'm looking at probably 100-120k based on some analysis if I attended Harvard.

I apologize for bringing this back up, and I know it's an incredibly personal decision...just really appreciate hearing both sides of the argument.

[r6_philly]

What if I further noted that I have enough in savings that I wouldn't have to take any debt to attend NU? Obviously this would take a chunk out of my debt at Harvard as well - I'm looking at probably 100-120k based on some analysis if I attended Harvard.

I apologize for bringing this back up, and I know it's an incredibly personal decision...just really appreciate hearing both sides of the argument.

Then how would you feel about paying an extra $1500 a month for the next 10 years after graduation to be a Harvard grad or NU grad?

Are you going to shoot for a MBA as well?

If I were you, it would hinge on how easy it was for me to earn and save that $100k. It is a huge amount of money to some, and not quite for others. There is obviously a difference in perceived value between the 2 degrees, but how much is that difference differs between people based on earning power.

[2things2]

retake. both these schools are terrible.


..........................go to harvard.

[CreativityKing]

Are you going to shoot for a MBA as well?

If I were you, it would hinge on how easy it was for me to earn and save that $100k. It is a huge amount of money to some, and not quite for others. There is obviously a difference in perceived value between the 2 degrees, but how much is that difference differs between people based on earning power.

I don't think I'm going to shoot for a JD/MBA, although at either school I definitely anticipate cross-listing in the business school for a few classes, and in fact inquired about the accessibility of doing so in both admissions interviews (and was told it was pretty easy in both places).

You're right, the decision is about the ease of earning the $100k...which, if I were 100% set on Big Law, wouldn't be too big a concern for me at Harvard. The problem is that I am afraid I would be restricting myself to HAVING to do Big Law out of Harvard in order to repay my debts (LRAP notwithstanding - I'd rather be paid off in less that 10 years). At Northwestern, I would be coming out with no debt and thereby wouldn't be financially restricting myself to a top-dollar job.

The Catch-22, as I see it, is that while Harvard is the school that would open the most opportunities up to me (Big Law, high-level clerkships, government, non-law opportunities, and other less traditional career paths), I would be restricting my options financially to the highest paying ones. Northwestern, on the other hand, would likely close several of the doors that Harvard would open, while at the same time leaving me financially less restricted.

Not looking for an answer here, necessarily. Just helps to talk things out and I certainly appreciate any input anyone has.

[CreativityKing]

Also sorry to Shloime for somewhat taking over this thread...didn't seem necessary to make a completely new one that essentially asked the same question though.

[existenz]

If you were shooting for academia I'd say Harvard, but since you want biglaw and a good quality of life, I'd take a full ride at NU. Graduating with $120,000 LESS in debt is pretty big fucking deal. You should also visit the schools if you haven't already.

[Noval]

If you were trying to decide between anything below the T30 + $$$ vs Harvard sticker, i would have suggested Harvard.
But since NU has a very reputable Law School AND you get a full ride(Which you will thank jesus for later on the road, employed or not), i'd suggest NU.

Harvard is very good, no doubt about it, but like many others said already, it's not a direct ride to Models & Bottles, if you go sticker, chances it will happen are even lower.

Go to Northwestern Law School, graduating at a good law school with NO DEBTS is the dream every Law Student has, do not deviate from it.Take it, then you will be ALLOWED to have low-expectations so if you don't score BigLaw, you will still have many backdoor options and you won't have to live in your mom's basement for the next 25 years of your life eating Pot Noodles everyday.