NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

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heyman
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NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby heyman » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:44 pm

I'm trying to decide between the two, but haven't yet had an opportunity to visit either. Thought I'd solicit some input here.

I would like to work as a public defender, for the ACLU, for the Innocence Project, as a drug policy reformer, and as a campaign reformer. Specifically, on that last point, I'd like to help new political parties get started.

I am sympathetic towards anarchists and socialists, and advocate for the value of psychedelics.

Which school would be right for me?

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:03 pm

Relevant to your interests (be they anarchists, socialists, or all things psychedelics):

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/columbia ... rtunities/

heyman
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby heyman » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:10 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:Relevant to your interests (be they anarchists, socialists, or all things psychedelics):

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/columbia ... rtunities/


Wow

Thank you for sharing this with me

heyman
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:29 pm

Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby heyman » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:13 pm

We now no longer feel confident in recommending Columbia to prospective students interested in pursuing public interest careers, particularly those students comparing Columbia and NYU.
--214 Columbia students

adt231
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby adt231 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:07 pm

heyman wrote:
We now no longer feel confident in recommending Columbia to prospective students interested in pursuing public interest careers, particularly those students comparing Columbia and NYU.
--214 Columbia students


wow. thanks for this! I guess I will pretty much cross Columbia off my list.

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jtemp320
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby jtemp320 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:26 pm

What I'm curious about is how the difference in public interest opportunities manifests itself...what does NYU offer that CLS lacks?

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glewz
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby glewz » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:30 pm

jtemp320 wrote:What I'm curious about is how the difference in public interest opportunities manifests itself...what does NYU offer that CLS lacks?


NYU is known for being really good for pub interest, def more so than Columbia. NYU Pub Interest fair is the biggest in NE region, and students get first dibs on jobs there.

ams
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby ams » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:45 pm

NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.

adt231
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby adt231 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:51 pm

ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.


if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??

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chris0805
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby chris0805 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:01 pm

adt231 wrote:
ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.


if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??


I'm a recent CLS alum who works in public interest, and I think that the petition overstated things a little. I know a lot of the students who were leading the charge, and I fully applaud what they did because it was very effective at getting the administration to get more serious about public interest support. In this case, I think the ends definitely justified the means, and I even signed the petition myself. Still, I think that letter was written at a time when students were angry about a couple very specific issues so I think you do need to take SOME of it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think CLS offers a very comparable (and in some ways better) public interest experience than NYU. I really do think that the public interest fair is the only thing that makes NYU meaningfully different than any other T10 school...

And I got two jobs (one summer, one post-graduate) out of that fair as a non-NYUer so I don't think it's necessarily a reason to choose NYU if you feel there is something specific (professor, externship/clinic, institute or program) at another school that fits your interests or personality better.

ams
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby ams » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:25 pm

adt231 wrote:
ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.


if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??


I think those students had a point, and I'm glad some of the issues are getting resolved. However, I did talk to several current Columbia students who are very happy with the public interest opportunities there, so there are mixed reviews. Of course, NYU for PI is usually TCR, The "vibe" at the two schools is also very different so that's why I advised OP to visit. Columbia caught my eye because of $$$ and I visited NYU because I happened to be in NYC visiting Columbia. I may not end up at either one, but I found my visits to be very helpful nonetheless.

adt231
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby adt231 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:11 am

ams wrote:
adt231 wrote:
ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.


if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??


I think those students had a point, and I'm glad some of the issues are getting resolved. However, I did talk to several current Columbia students who are very happy with the public interest opportunities there, so there are mixed reviews. Of course, NYU for PI is usually TCR, The "vibe" at the two schools is also very different so that's why I advised OP to visit. Columbia caught my eye because of $$$ and I visited NYU because I happened to be in NYC visiting Columbia. I may not end up at either one, but I found my visits to be very helpful nonetheless.


Gotcha. Thanks!

bob77
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby bob77 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:30 pm

chris0805 wrote:
adt231 wrote:
ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.


if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??


I'm a recent CLS alum who works in public interest, and I think that the petition overstated things a little. I know a lot of the students who were leading the charge, and I fully applaud what they did because it was very effective at getting the administration to get more serious about public interest support. In this case, I think the ends definitely justified the means, and I even signed the petition myself. Still, I think that letter was written at a time when students were angry about a couple very specific issues so I think you do need to take SOME of it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think CLS offers a very comparable (and in some ways better) public interest experience than NYU. I really do think that the public interest fair is the only thing that makes NYU meaningfully different than any other T10 school...

And I got two jobs (one summer, one post-graduate) out of that fair as a non-NYUer so I don't think it's necessarily a reason to choose NYU if you feel there is something specific (professor, externship/clinic, institute or program) at another school that fits your interests or personality better.


what did the administration do to address the concerns? also, would you mind saying more about the ways in which the public interest experience at CLS is better than that at NYU?

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chris0805
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Re: NYU or Columbia for domestic public interest law

Postby chris0805 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:49 am

bob77 wrote:
chris0805 wrote:
adt231 wrote:
ams wrote:NYU has way more clinics than Columbia. However, Columbia has a lot of externships that help make up for the shortage of clinics. I visited both and would strongly advise you to do the same.


if they are similar enough to make your decision based on your visit, then why would current Columbia students interested in PI advise students to go to NYU for PI instead of Columbia??


I'm a recent CLS alum who works in public interest, and I think that the petition overstated things a little. I know a lot of the students who were leading the charge, and I fully applaud what they did because it was very effective at getting the administration to get more serious about public interest support. In this case, I think the ends definitely justified the means, and I even signed the petition myself. Still, I think that letter was written at a time when students were angry about a couple very specific issues so I think you do need to take SOME of it with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think CLS offers a very comparable (and in some ways better) public interest experience than NYU. I really do think that the public interest fair is the only thing that makes NYU meaningfully different than any other T10 school...

And I got two jobs (one summer, one post-graduate) out of that fair as a non-NYUer so I don't think it's necessarily a reason to choose NYU if you feel there is something specific (professor, externship/clinic, institute or program) at another school that fits your interests or personality better.


what did the administration do to address the concerns? also, would you mind saying more about the ways in which the public interest experience at CLS is better than that at NYU?


1. The administration did a few things along with the students. They created a new public interest lawyering class, helped put together a database of public interest students and alumni (though I think this was mostly students), created a new way to get course credit for public interest work through internships, and took some time to look into ways to do something about the turnover they were having with people at CPIL/SJI. Personally, I think the latter issue is one that comes down a little bit to luck, but it never hurts to TRY and do better.

2. I think a few things "can" be better at CLS (compared to NYU) for public interest, depending on the person. I think CLS v. NYU for public interest should still largely be a personal decision. I liked that the community at CLS (administrators and students) felt a little more personal and tight-knit at CLS. Yes, we have less students going into PI (and less students overall), but I felt I would get a little more attention there, especially since I didn't already have an amazing PI resume. It just seemed like they would be more excited to have me at CLS than at NYU and more excited to work with me. Second, I felt like students were more likely to demand things at CLS or talk about what could be better, what was in the works, etc. At NYU, it was more of a, "we're the best," and you should recognize how lucky you are to be here so why would you complain. ALL OF THIS, is my own personal and biased experience, but I felt like, for me, CLS was a better choice for PI, regardless of all the rhetoric and internet reputation. This is dependent on the person, their background, and how they feel when they visit.

At the end of the day, I had a great experience, I'm where I want to be and the LRAP is great so I'm happy with my choice, but it's also unlikely I would be in a different position had I gone to NYU.




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