ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

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dakatz
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby dakatz » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:18 pm

But remember that, by paying sticker to go to CCN, you merely give yourself a chance of one day working in academia. The majority of people who shoot for that don't end up in that field, even from the best schools, since it is so competitive. And where would that leave you? My guess would be you would end up seeking out a great job at a large law firm. So you could very well end up with the exact same kind of job, but just a crapload more debt than you need to have.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:19 pm

Depends

09042014
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:23 pm

Brock2010 wrote:Cornell>CCN for biglaw this year brother.


In for 2010 grads. For 2011 and on it's probably 20-25% worse.

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jtemp320
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby jtemp320 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:32 pm

dakatz wrote:But remember that, by paying sticker to go to CCN, you merely give yourself a chance of one day working in academia. The majority of people who shoot for that don't end up in that field, even from the best schools, since it is so competitive. And where would that leave you? My guess would be you would end up seeking out a great job at a large law firm. So you could very well end up with the exact same kind of job, but just a crapload more debt than you need to have.


I didnt mean to make this thread fully about me but I will say this - a lot of what I want - a shot at clerkships and academia, prestigious gov work (DOJ/SEC etc.), west coast portability, quality of life while in school...seems to be offered by CLS and not Cornell...but yes the 135k difference is weighing on me (tremendoulsy) and I have no idea what I'll do...but I appreciate the advice

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alexb
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby alexb » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:36 pm

lol. You all are going to have a hard time buying your first house if you can't put 200k into your education at CCN. You know what they say about scared money?

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absolutazn87
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby absolutazn87 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:47 pm

jtemp320 wrote:
dakatz wrote:But remember that, by paying sticker to go to CCN, you merely give yourself a chance of one day working in academia. The majority of people who shoot for that don't end up in that field, even from the best schools, since it is so competitive. And where would that leave you? My guess would be you would end up seeking out a great job at a large law firm. So you could very well end up with the exact same kind of job, but just a crapload more debt than you need to have.


I didnt mean to make this thread fully about me but I will say this - a lot of what I want - a shot at clerkships and academia, prestigious gov work (DOJ/SEC etc.), west coast portability, quality of life while in school...seems to be offered by CLS and not Cornell...but yes the 135k difference is weighing on me (tremendoulsy) and I have no idea what I'll do...but I appreciate the advice

I saw you got 75k from Penn! Why are you only considering the 135k from Cornell? Penn has lower tuition than Cornell, has relatively high clerkship numbers (comparable to Chicago) and the lower cost of living of Penn vs Columbia makes your savings way more the 75k. I'd put total cost of attendance of Penn for you at 100k less than Columbia at sticker.

ExpectLess
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby ExpectLess » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:48 pm

Is this thread a comparison or are we still on the question: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Disregarding everything else, yes it is.

But, other offers exist, so it's surely worth comparing. At the end of the day however, CCN at sticker is almost never a bad decision. If you're 100% sold on doing PI/gov't as a career (read: at least 10 years) I don't think it's bad to take CCN over Cornell at a full-ride as LRAP will be footing almost all of the bill anyway. Either one would be a good choice, so I'd say pick where you really want to go.

If you're shooting for a high paying job, however, Cornell on full-ride is definitely the right decision.

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jtemp320
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby jtemp320 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:00 pm

absolutazn87 wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:
dakatz wrote:But remember that, by paying sticker to go to CCN, you merely give yourself a chance of one day working in academia. The majority of people who shoot for that don't end up in that field, even from the best schools, since it is so competitive. And where would that leave you? My guess would be you would end up seeking out a great job at a large law firm. So you could very well end up with the exact same kind of job, but just a crapload more debt than you need to have.


I didnt mean to make this thread fully about me but I will say this - a lot of what I want - a shot at clerkships and academia, prestigious gov work (DOJ/SEC etc.), west coast portability, quality of life while in school...seems to be offered by CLS and not Cornell...but yes the 135k difference is weighing on me (tremendoulsy) and I have no idea what I'll do...but I appreciate the advice

I saw you got 75k from Penn! Why are you only considering the 135k from Cornell? Penn has lower tuition than Cornell, has relatively high clerkship numbers (comparable to Chicago) and the lower cost of living of Penn vs Columbia makes your savings way more the 75k. I'd put total cost of attendance of Penn for you at 100k less than Columbia at sticker.


You have an excellent point - yes...I am seriously considering Penn

Brock2010
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby Brock2010 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:28 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Brock2010 wrote:Cornell>CCN for biglaw this year brother.


In for 2010 grads. For 2011 and on it's probably 20-25% worse.



Really? I know in recent years CCN has been better than Cornell but why do you think it changed?

chasgoose
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby chasgoose » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:49 pm

emmbar53 wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:Oh man - I forgot my LSN was visible...now I've outed myself as creating another thread trying to justify potentially picking CLS over Cornell... :oops: :lol:

but seriously the intention was to debate the value of a CCN degree at sticker in this economy...


Ha, sorry about that.

Anyways, if someone's only option was CCN at sticker (unlikely as that may be), I think attending is a fine financial decision.


So far, aside from sticker at USC, that is my only option lol.

subtle
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby subtle » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:59 pm

chasgoose wrote:
emmbar53 wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:Oh man - I forgot my LSN was visible...now I've outed myself as creating another thread trying to justify potentially picking CLS over Cornell... :oops: :lol:

but seriously the intention was to debate the value of a CCN degree at sticker in this economy...


Ha, sorry about that.

Anyways, if someone's only option was CCN at sticker (unlikely as that may be), I think attending is a fine financial decision.


So far, aside from sticker at USC, that is my only option lol.


Yeahhhhhh, I have 5 T14 options, but all at sticker.

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Lawlcat
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby Lawlcat » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:29 pm

So since I'm already crunching numbers in another thread for this, it only took about 5 minutes extra to make this:

--ImageRemoved--
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8cb12e195f.png

I'm not at all persuaded that Columbia >> Cornell for clerkships. (I've also never heard anyone argue credibly that either of these schools is more "portable" to the west coast than the other.)

Checking into the LRAP is an excellent suggestion. Someone should make a good LRAP thread, updated for this year. I do remember hearing that CLS has a very good LRAP.

As for academia: I think Columbia's probably stronger, but I think "placement into academia" is kind of a silly measure. You're going to have to be pretty remarkable in a few different ways to make it into academics, and I for one wouldn't base a decision as to which school to attend on which one has a 2% advantage in academics at good schools 10 years after graduation.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:47 pm

I think Penn is a better option than Cornell. Maybe even better than full price Columbia

adt231
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby adt231 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:19 am

alexb wrote:lol. You all are going to have a hard time buying your first house if you can't put 200k into your education at CCN. You know what they say about scared money?


No, what do they say?

jeremysen
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby jeremysen » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:35 am

Since your goals are academia/clerkship I can't see why the debt would be an overwhelming deterrence. Go ccn

edit: negotiate for as much as you can and then go ccn. Either way, ccn. perhaps you should go visit Cornell btw. Its environment is very different from Columbia's :)
Last edited by jeremysen on Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jtemp320
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby jtemp320 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:50 am

Alright I'm going to give up the pretense that this thread isnt about my situation...I'll be visiting CLS/NYU, Cornell and Penn week after next...really hoping for decent $ out of CLS but totally undecided and appreciate all the good and varied feedback on here

Happy St. Paddy's day :mrgreen:

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jtemp320
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby jtemp320 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:02 pm

Those of you who were telling me to take the full ride at Cornell - I now have another full ride (150k) on the table at Northwestern. I think I will almost certainly end up doing that.

Bumi
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby Bumi » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:05 pm

jtemp320 wrote:Those of you who were telling me to take the full ride at Cornell - I now have another full ride (150k) on the table at Northwestern. I think I will almost certainly end up doing that.

Are you coming to ASW? Either way, see you in Chicago this fall.

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jtemp320
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby jtemp320 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:07 pm

Bumi wrote:
jtemp320 wrote:Those of you who were telling me to take the full ride at Cornell - I now have another full ride (150k) on the table at Northwestern. I think I will almost certainly end up doing that.

Are you coming to ASW? Either way, see you in Chicago this fall.


I was going to go to Berkeley's ASW - trying to rearrange my flight plans...just got the email could not be happier - see you in Chicago! :D

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awahoya
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby awahoya » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:17 pm

jtemp320 wrote:Those of you who were telling me to take the full ride at Cornell - I now have another full ride (150k) on the table at Northwestern. I think I will almost certainly end up doing that.


Congratulations!!!!!

cornellbeez
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby cornellbeez » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:25 pm

Brock2010 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Brock2010 wrote:Cornell>CCN for biglaw this year brother.


In for 2010 grads. For 2011 and on it's probably 20-25% worse.



Really? I know in recent years CCN has been better than Cornell but why do you think it changed?

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/biglaw-e ... -a-debate/

Cornell's Class of 2011 placed 40% into biglaw.

Columbia and NYU are both officially reporting around 60-something% for the Class of 2011.

adt231
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Re: ITE is CCN worth it at sticker?

Postby adt231 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:28 pm

Brock2010 wrote:Cornell>CCN for biglaw this year brother.


I think OP understands what I'm about to say but since I'm surprised I didn't find a better refutation of this inane statement already, I'll proceed anyway.

Even though Cornell placed a higher ratio of grads in the NLJ 250 in 2010, it does not follow that it is better for biglaw. (1) not all biglaw is created equally. (2) there is obviously more self-selection at CCN than Cornell (for PI, clerkships, academia, etc.). (3) one year's stats are not, by themselves, a good indication of what we can expect for the next few years.

3 has already been put forth; 1 and 2 have not, or at least I didn't see them posted. Forgive me if I skipped over reading them and thereby made this post redundant.




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