International Law - Seattle U, Stetson, Cal Western, SW Forum

[kidman018]

Need Help choosing Law School

I am very interested in International Human Rights, and want work with at the ICC in the Hague or something similar. But at the same time I understand the difficulty of gaining entrance, and I might have to work my way up by starting from a less prestigous human rights group or law firm.

So my first choice of course was American University, but I was not accepted there. But I have been accepted to a couple of places so far, such as Seattle University, Southwestern, Stetson, Albany, and Calwestern. I applied to more places also and will evaluate them if I'm accepted. So, in order to try to get into the Hague or something similar... I was wondering what school would be better.

Seattle - Ranked the highest out of all the other schools (like number 86 according to US News Ranking), and they have a nice international law program and externships to the Hague. Only con is that if I don't get a job with one of those international law programs I don't want to stay in Seattle and work.
http://www.law.seattleu.edu/Academics/E ... .xml#Hague

Southwestern - I took a visit there and it didn't appease me too much, they are not so focused on International Law as the others but they are in the L.A. area if that has any benefits. Also it's close enough to home to visit family, but far enough to concentrate on my studies without being intereferred with. Also job prospects in California are ideal to somewhere farther if I don't get a top international position.

Stetson - I really enjoyed reading about Stetson's program. Only thing is that they are in the 3rd tier... but they have a well known international law progrom with International Law Certificate of Concentration, where only 5 students will be selected per year (based on factors such as class rank, a paper you have to write stating your interests, etc.) If i'm able to get into this program they would assign me a professor for required mentoring. Also they have study abroad programs to the Hague, and one of their students recently actually got a job at the ICC through their connections. Also, if I don't land a top international position, I wouldn't mind living in Tampa Bay Florida and working there.
http://www.law.stetson.edu/tmpl/academi ... spx?id=644

Albany - Also in the 3rd tier, and has a concentration in International Law. Location is in New York so that might play as a benefit. But other then that i'm not too excited about this school.

Calwestern - 4th Tier law school... but joining up with UCSD this fall I believe which should shoot it's ratings up within a year or so. They also have a concentration in International Law, and have an internship program at the Hagu which many of the other law schools do not have, and since my family lives here in San Diego, expenses would probably go down.
http://www.cwsl.edu/main/default.asp?na ... abroad.asp

Waitlisted at: Penn State, Miami, U of the Pacific.

Have yet to hear from: USD, ASU, Loyola, and Santa Clara

Rejected from: American, Hastings, USF, and Hawaii.

Let me know what you think, thanks!

[dpk711]

I'm really sorry to say this but I think you should retake and reapply next year and at least get into a school like GWU where students have traditionally placed well in the field of international law (if there is such thing).

[Sandro]

You have to come to grips with the fact that setting your goal of the ICC/Hague/some international court type of setting is almost as unlikely as winning the World Series of Poker. Not only are these types of positions for American JDs extremely limited (think being able to count on your hands) but you are basically coming from the least prestigious school that would be competing for these positions.

I'm sure everyone else will come in and say "lol Intl. law cool bro" but its the truth. I'm all for pursuing your dreams but at a certain point taking on 150k+ debt at Stetson with the aim of Intl law is financial russian roulette, only you are playing with an extended clip AK74u from Call of Duty 4.

The field is so small and you cannot just bust your way into it through a school like Stetson. Unless you have insane connections, which it sounds like you dont, you have to come to grips with the complete absurdity of pursuing an expensive education with microscopic chances of landing these gigs - even more so from Stetson.

edit - based from your WL/Rejections it seems you will be paying close to full sticker at Stetson. Please, do not do this.

[Wactawshus]

I'm really sorry to say this but I think you should retake and reapply next year and at least get into a school like GWU where students have traditionally placed well in the field of international law (if there is such thing).

Good god, you have to be kidding me.

[kidman018]

Thanks for the comments. I wish I could take a year off and focus on the LSAT but that is not an option at this point... and I have to make the best of what I have. I know landing a job at the Hague or something similar is a long shot, but don't mind falling short and working for a low paying NGO. I have some connections with CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) and am considering even working with them afterwards... I wouldn't mind that either. So I am going to see if CalWestern will pay up so cash and hopefully my options will expand with the schools that haven't responded yet or have put me on the wait list. If not, then it's between Seattle and Stetson most likely.

[BarbellDreams]

Honestly, international human rights is something that is very very difficult to get into from a tier 1 school. From these schools you basically have no shot. If you have no other areas of law that you are interested in I suggest retaking no matter what.

[Sandro]

Thanks for the comments. I wish I could take a year off and focus on the LSAT but that is not an option at this point.

Why? Just to be honest you will get no help from TLS on your decision if this is your stance, going to a t3/t4 at sticker is already frowned upon- going with the intent of getting an impossible job/with a fallback of an extremely competitive low paying job is downright insane.

We don't just say retake because your score is low and are casting judgement. We say retake because hundreds of us have retaken and significantly improved our situations.

[kidman018]

Ya, you guys are right. It just feels weird taking another year, i'm already 26 yrs old. Damn, this sucks. Well, i could still retain my job that means and store some more money away. I wont be in school anymore since i'm graduating, which means I could probably get an internship at night to build up my resume. Also probably take the testmasters program and study my a$$ off for the Oct LSAT, hopefully improving my score from 154 to 170 (does that sound reasonable?)

Any other suggestions for this new turn of events?

[YourCaptain]

If you are not 1) going to Yale 2) in the 1980's, I'm sure that a position with the ICC/Hague is nigh unobtainable.

But if you're really into public interest work, go to a school like NYU with a good LRAP so that you can do PI and get your loans forgiven.

[plt06]

If those are your options and you're going to have to pay sticker, then you shouldn't go to law school. If you're interested in human rights at the international level you should consider looking at alternate degree programs, like an MPP.

Also, nothing wrong with starting law school later. I'll be 28 next month and I'm starting law school this Fall. Law school is 3 years, your career is the rest of your life. Don't rush.

[Zabini]

Ya, you guys are right. It just feels weird taking another year, i'm already 26 yrs old. Damn, this sucks. Well, i could still retain my job that means and store some more money away. I wont be in school anymore since i'm graduating, which means I could probably get an internship at night to build up my resume. Also probably take the testmasters program and study my a$$ off for the Oct LSAT, hopefully improving my score from 154 to 170 (does that sound reasonable?)

Any other suggestions for this new turn of events?

Sounds like a good plan with the exception of "getting an internship at night." 154-170 is a huge jump but the LSAT is definitely a learnable test, you're just going to have to really apply yourself.

Best of luck.

[LLB2JD]

So OP appears to have conceded that he/she probably needs to retake and reapply. So, enough of the piling on.

To OP: It appears you're new here, so I'll direct you to the LSAT threads:

Great Advice on how to get 160+ - This is a link where students, many of whom probably scored in the 150s, shared their study strategies and methods. All ended up scoring 160+ as the title suggests
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... ?f=6&t=396

Pithypike's Study Strategy - this is a tested and trusted method here on TLS.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657

Finally, I'll direct you to just live in the LSAT forum. Join a study group. A lot of the folks on there are retaking themselves so they know exactly what you're going through. My advise would be that you do not take criticisms personal, as you'd find some straight shooters on there.
Here's the link: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

One last advice is that you should aim high. Don't sell yourself short. This place had been very helpful to me and a whole lot more like me. I would not be matriculating at the school I'll be at in the fall if I had not stumbled across this site.


Good luck

[romothesavior]

It does suck, OP, but if international law is what you want, then none of these schools is going to get your there. International law is extremely competitive, especially at the levels you're talking about. You really need to be from an elite institution to even sniff the Hague or anything like that. And most schools use international law as a marketing ploy to lure in unsuspecting students. Check out this article:

http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/ ... e_the_hype

Yes, taking a year off and re-taking sucks. But it sucks far less than taking out 6-figures of debt to go to a sub-par school and wind up jobless in three years. Really apply yourself on this retake, and do some research into law school to make sure it is capable of helping you obtain your goals. The LSAT is a very learnable test, and I am confident that you can do better if you put in the requisite time and energy. Here is a good thread for LSAT advice:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657

This guide is pretty intense and I didn't follow it exactly, but you can take bits and pieces that you find helpful. The key is that you put in a few hours every day for about 2-3 months, and really make sure you analyze the problems you're missing. Good luck!

[FuManChusco]

If you are not 1) going to Yale 2) in the 1980's, I'm sure that a position with the ICC/Hague is nigh unobtainable.

But if you're really into public interest work, go to a school like NYU with a good LRAP so that you can do PI and get your loans forgiven.

lol, you say that like anyone can just walk into NYU.

[Hull_at_The_House]

Honestly, apart from retaking the LSAT and getting into somewhere like American (at the very least), you might wanna try doing a masters in International Affairs or an MPA/MPP to boost your chances of getting into your chosen field (After these you may find that you don't even need a law degree if you choose to work on the policy side). With these degrees, it's less of a case of these degrees being highly relevant to International Human Rights Law & related fields, but crucially gives you a chance to network in your field. It's this kind of networking that gives you inroads into the field rather than pure merit (a bit messed up I know). It's a very small area so you should maximize your links to CAIR and then decide what advanced degrees you want/need.

[CanadianWolf]

Fluency in a few key languages might be an alternate route to getting a position in an International Human Rights type organization. Are you fluent or proficient in any other languages ?

[cool of law]

Where did you hear Calwestern in merging with UCSD?

[kidman018]

I already looked into masters in International Affairs and the MPA/MPP a little, and still decided on a J.D.. but will check it out more. Thanks everyone for all the info, websites, and LSAT tips and tricks. I will probably be on here a lot more! Why not take on an internship at night to build my resume?

I am fluent in Persian (but can work on it especially on how to speak in formal settings), and am still working on learning Spanish and Arabic.

CalWestern and UCSD merge is not 100%, but the talks have been there for a while and meetings are taking place. You can google it and find info, here is an article about it:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... aw-school/