Minnesota vs. IUB

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Minnesota or IUB?

Minnesota(Total scholly of 45k)
15
42%
IUB (Total scholly of 90k)
21
58%
 
Total votes: 36

hardworkingal
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Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby hardworkingal » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:26 pm

I'm having a hard time deciding between the two, I want to work in either criminal law or international law, however I would still like to keep my options open just in case I decide to pursue Big Law. I received a scholarship of 90k from IUB and 45k from Minnesota over the 3 years and the location after graduation is not really a factor. Which is the better option?

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:28 pm

I doubt you are getting biglaw from either. Take the money and run.

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Verity
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Verity » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:36 pm

They're peer schools, and basically tied-down to their own small regions. Biglaw isn't impossible from either, and it's somewhat better at Minn (most of this is attributed to Minneapolis employment). Minn has a slightly stronger local market. All in all, IU-B is double the money for slightly worse (speculative) job prospects. I'd say IU-B.

Sandro
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Sandro » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:38 pm

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:I doubt you are getting biglaw from either. Take the money and run.


.... using that line of thinking might as well go to your local TTTT, right ?

fakemoney
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby fakemoney » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:41 pm

First off, get a ready for a wave of snarky replies regarding "International Law... "

Verity wrote:They're peer schools, and basically tied-down to their own small regions. Biglaw isn't impossible from either, and it's somewhat better at Minn (most of this is attributed to Minneapolis employment). Minn has a slightly stronger local market. All in all, IU-B is double the money for slightly worse (speculative) job prospects. I'd say IU-B.


I don't think MSP and Indiana/Indianapolis/Bloomington are comparable as regions. I find it a little weird that people refer to MSP as a small region. It has a population of 3.5 million and the 13th largest metro economy in the US. It's more than twice the size of the largest metropolitan economy in Indiana, the Indianapolis-Caramel area (where IUB isn't even located).

http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0110/charts.pdf

As far as the schools go, while UMN is hardly a big-law powerhouse by any means, it did place nearly 20% in the NLJ report prior to this year's, and was around 12% this year, which at least cracked the top-40. I don't think IUB was listed in either report. UMN is a more established school, both employment-wise and reputation-wise. I don't think there's any question about it.

That being said, I think if the OP is alright with working in a relatively smaller market/less urban region in the Midwest, IUB wins out here.
Last edited by fakemoney on Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

emmbar53
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby emmbar53 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:45 pm


Sandro
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Sandro » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:48 pm

if money is no issue who wins ?

drleather
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby drleather » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:28 pm

Note: I go to UMN.

If money is no issue, then you have to ask yourself where your life would be if you ended up in the middle of the class, and decide which fate you would be more content with.

Obviously, I am not privy to what happens to IUB students ranked between 40% and 60% in their class. Still, the conventional wisdom is to go somewhere where you wouldn't mind sticking around for 3-5 years (or longer). With that in mind, I'd rather be "stuck" in Minneapolis/St. Paul than be forced to pack up the show and attempt to get something in Chicago, which may be a big market but seems to be hyper-competitive.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:32 pm

I vote Minnesota. IUB is not the best school in its state. Minnesota is the best school in its state.

While Minnesota would cost more than IUB, it's better immediate job prospects are worth an additional $45,000 over your lifetime (by job prospects, I'm not referring to big law).

dissonance1848
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby dissonance1848 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:33 pm

Neither Minnesota or IUB is gonna get you biglaw. Given that, minimizing debt is your top priority. In as much as you don't care where you wind up, the financially prudent choice is to take IUB. What are your stats, can you retake?

Yeah, IUB isn't ND, but I thought many ND grads leave the state for Chicago, etc.

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Verity
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Verity » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:15 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:While Minnesota would cost more than IUB, it's better immediate job prospects are worth an additional $45,000 over your lifetime (by job prospects, I'm not referring to big law).



That's entirely subjective, and any real improvements in job prospects would be minimal, and dependent on where you end up in the class.

$45K (plus the accumulating interest, which we seem to forget) isn't peanuts. Unless OP would really like to practice in M/SP, I don't think it justifies twice the debt. Plus, living expenses will probably be a bit more expensive in M/SP.

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RockyIII
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby RockyIII » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:18 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
While Minnesota would cost more than IUB, it's better immediate job prospects are worth an additional $45,000 over your lifetime (by job prospects, I'm not referring to big law).


What data are you using to support this?

hardworkingal
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby hardworkingal » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:21 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Neither Minnesota or IUB is gonna get you biglaw. Given that, minimizing debt is your top priority. In as much as you don't care where you wind up, the financially prudent choice is to take IUB. What are your stats, can you retake?

Yeah, IUB isn't ND, but I thought many ND grads leave the state for Chicago, etc.


I wouldn't want to retake.

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alexb
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby alexb » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:24 pm

IUB unless you want to be in Minnesota $45,000 more than you want to be in Indiana.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:31 pm

RockyIII wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
While Minnesota would cost more than IUB, it's better immediate job prospects are worth an additional $45,000 over your lifetime (by job prospects, I'm not referring to big law).


What data are you using to support this?


I don't need data. It's simple logic.

Question 1: What is the best school in Minnesota?
Question 1a: What is the second best school in Minnesota?
Question 1b: Is there data suggesting that the best school in Minnesota is significantly better than the second school in Minnesota? If so, what?
Question 1c: Is there data suggesting that U of Minnesota is better than the third best school in Minnesota? If so, what?

Question 2: What is the best school in Indiana?
Question 2a: What is the second best school in Indiana?
Question 2b: Is there data suggesting that the best school in Indiana is significantly better than the second school in Indiana? If so, what?
Question 2c: Is there data suggesting the IUB is better than the third best school in Indiana? If so, what?

Think very carefully about it in your mind. Look up information if you have to.

Or, if this is too complicated, try this : Would you rather go to U of Tennessee with a $30k/year scholarship or Ohio State with a $15k/year scholarship?

Assume both schools have tuition of $40,000 and you don't care where you practice.
Last edited by Aberzombie1892 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:40 pm

There are more IUB grads working in Indianapolis 'biglaw' than ND grads. Look up Baker & Daniels, Barnes & Thornburg...etc. However, this is probably a self-selection issue more than anything. It does suggest that IU has a decent base in Indianapolis (it is probably at least equal to ND). The same can not be said for the two schools in Chicago or elsewhere.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:48 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:There are more IUB grads working in Indianapolis 'biglaw' than ND grads. Look up Baker & Daniels, Barnes & Thornburg...etc. However, this is probably a self-selection issue more than anything. It does suggest that IU has a decent base in Indianapolis (it is probably at least equal to ND). The same can not be said for the two schools in Chicago or elsewhere.


I know what you are trying to say, and I don't want to sound like a douche when I respond.

So I will say this: I'm sure that Nashville firms have a lot more U of Tennessee graduates than Vanderbilt graduates. Does that make U of Tennessee better than Vanderbilt?

Also, does IUB really place better than IUI? Is there any data that says it does? See my 2c above.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:52 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:There are more IUB grads working in Indianapolis 'biglaw' than ND grads. Look up Baker & Daniels, Barnes & Thornburg...etc. However, this is probably a self-selection issue more than anything. It does suggest that IU has a decent base in Indianapolis (it is probably at least equal to ND). The same can not be said for the two schools in Chicago or elsewhere.


I know what you are trying to say, and I don't want to sound like a douche when I respond.

So I will say this: I'm sure that Nashville firms have a lot more U of Tennessee graduates than Vanderbilt graduates. Does that make U of Tennessee better than Vanderbilt?

Also, does IUB really place better than IUI? Is there any data that says it does? See my 2c above.


I know what you're saying...believe me, I'm a student at ND, I think we're a better school than IUB, but I was just suggesting that IUB has quite a few people at the top Indy firms. IUI has even more than IUB at some of them. I am not sure really, I think IUB at least can get you to Chicago, but the same cannot be said for IUI (haven't searched out enough data to confirm the difference, but of course neither appears on the top 50 NLJ list).

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JCougar
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby JCougar » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:02 pm

Verity wrote:They're peer schools, and basically tied-down to their own small regions. Biglaw isn't impossible from either, and it's somewhat better at Minn (most of this is attributed to Minneapolis employment). Minn has a slightly stronger local market. All in all, IU-B is double the money for slightly worse (speculative) job prospects. I'd say IU-B.


There's no way I'd consider IU-B a peer school to Minnesota. Don't let the US News rankings fool you. IU-B is a T2 school when it comes to placement. Minnesota is a great school.

ITE, both schools only have mostly in-state placement. But 1) Minneapolis has a much bigger legal market, and 2) Minnesota has a much better reputation, so when the economy recovers, there will likely be much more out of state opportunities compared to IU-B.

fakemoney
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Re: Minnesota vs. IUB

Postby fakemoney » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:53 pm

I think some strong points have been raised in favor of Minnesota. Considering the fact that IUB is located in a substantially smaller market with a lot more competition leads me to back off my earlier statement that IUB wins out if OP is okay with a smaller market/less urban setting. Another fact chipping away at IUB's advantage: Their tuition is 3K more than Minnesota's, narrowing the tuition difference between the two from 45K to 36K over three years. Not a huge number of course, but it does at least counteract the higher COL in MSP to some extent. (Unless the OP can get in-state tuition at IUB. Anyone know how hard it is to do this in Indiana? I know it's really tough at UMN.)

Bottom line, I'm not sure enough of the employment opportunities in IUB's market to endorse it over Minnesota for 36-45K, unless OP has a preference for the Indiana region (which doesn't seem to be apparent). Not endorsing UMN either, 36-45K is still a substantial amount of money, just reducing my opinion to a belabored "I don't know."




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