Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

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Lav1289
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Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lav1289 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:06 am

Hello,

Just got my admitted student email from BC and am pretty psyched about it! I also got into UConn and Mason which are both much cheaper. Does anyone have info on job prospects coming out of BC, and would it be worth the debt? Thanks!

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:19 am

TLS generally is a bit more debt adverse than I so personally I think BC at sticker is fine but the majority will say different. Heavily depends on what you want to do career-wise and how debt adverse you are.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:22 am

It is not as good as the T14, but outside of that, it does pretty well. 33.58% of the class placed in biglaw according to this survey http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1. Implies that top third get biglaw, which is better than a lot of other schools, but not the greatest when compared to the T14.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:32 am

Lav1289 wrote:Hello,

Just got my admitted student email from BC and am pretty psyched about it! I also got into UConn and Mason which are both much cheaper. Does anyone have info on job prospects coming out of BC, and would it be worth the debt? Thanks!


No.

RPK34
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby RPK34 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:45 am

Lav1289 wrote:Hello,

Just got my admitted student email from BC and am pretty psyched about it! I also got into UConn and Mason which are both much cheaper. Does anyone have info on job prospects coming out of BC, and would it be worth the debt? Thanks!


This really comes down to you and what you want to risk. For me, I calculated a ton of numbers, and I didn't think it was worth it, or even close to being worth it. 200k in financial aid debt is downright scary

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IceAero
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby IceAero » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:04 am

I took BC at almost sticker (5k/year) over BU with over double that.

I've got a SA at a 130k firm and I'm not in the top 50% (close). Good interviews got me a lot further than any small increase in grades would have.

I'll leave with under 120k in debt and I'm happy about that.

I flat-out love BC, Boston, and my classmates.

Just giving you an example. Job prospects, in general, have not been great for Anyone in my class, but it's still better than last year, and I would pick BC over any school outside of the T-14 (short of a T-35 full ride), and the NLJ 250 placement numbers agree with me (BC is #16).

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Lawlcat
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lawlcat » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:25 am

Lav1289 wrote:Hello,

Just got my admitted student email from BC and am pretty psyched about it! I also got into UConn and Mason which are both much cheaper. Does anyone have info on job prospects coming out of BC, and would it be worth the debt? Thanks!


Here are some numbers. They both seem to do okay:

--ImageRemoved--

full data: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150004

I don't doubt the poster who says they got a 130K/year job without being quite in the top half of the class: "30% get biglaw" does not mean "top 30% grades gets biglaw".

I don't even see job numbers on UConn/Mason. I think those would be bad ideas even for free.

I'd check into BC/BU LRAP and otherwise think about what you'll do if you're significantly below median. But they both sound like reasonable choices.
Last edited by Lawlcat on Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Fred_McGriff
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Fred_McGriff » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:26 am

Sure, why not?

Eagles_Legendz
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Eagles_Legendz » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:28 am

Mason is a good school, depending on what you're going for.

Going there for free would certainly not be a 'bad idea'.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lawlcat » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:32 am

Eagles_Legendz wrote:Mason is a good school, depending on what you're going for.

Going there for free would certainly not be a 'bad idea'.


You're right; that was overstated. Any decent school for free should be given serious consideration.

Eagles_Legendz
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Eagles_Legendz » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:39 am

I'd be curious to see the financial breakdown for the OP.

If there isn't a significant scholarship attached to either George Mason or UConn, and you're set on going this year, BC is the easy choice unless you're looking to go into PI.

taxguy
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby taxguy » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:40 am

The short answer is NO, It isn't worth the big bucs.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:11 pm

IceAero wrote:I took BC at almost sticker (5k/year) over BU with over double that.

I've got a SA at a 130k firm and I'm not in the top 50% (close). Good interviews got me a lot further than any small increase in grades would have.

I'll leave with under 120k in debt and I'm happy about that.

I flat-out love BC, Boston, and my classmates.

Just giving you an example. Job prospects, in general, have not been great for Anyone in my class, but it's still better than last year, and I would pick BC over any school outside of the T-14 (short of a T-35 full ride), and the NLJ 250 placement numbers agree with me (BC is #16).


Hows Sullivan and Worcester treating you? They generally dip to median at BU too.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:14 pm

Also, don't go by anecdotes. BC places very well, but just because someone at median got a good job doesn't mean anything. I'm top 1/3rd at BU and I'll be at a V20 making 160k. I also have friends at median who will be working at V100s making market.

It all depends on how debt adverse you are. While BC >> UConn/Mason, it is by no means a sure thing. I have friends that are 3Ls at BC with basically no employment prospects whatsoever.

Lav1289
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lav1289 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:15 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I am not dead set on "biglaw" but would like to make at least 100K coming out of law school. For those of you who said no, it's not worth the money, can you give me some reasons? I know the market's not great, but based on the stats, the job prospects seem to be pretty good. Did any of you have bad experiences?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:17 pm

Lav1289 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I am not dead set on "biglaw" but would like to make at least 100K coming out of law school. For those of you who said no, it's not worth the money, can you give me some reasons? I know the market's not great, but based on the stats, the job prospects seem to be pretty good. Did any of you have bad experiences?


Biglaw is one of the only ways to make > 100k starting. The other poster said hes making 130k, which means hes most likely at either Sullivan & Worcester, Seyfarth Shaw (although, I think they're not taking a summer class) or Hinckley. Those are basically the only 3 firms I think would pay in that random band of salary (other than Nutter, which pays 145k).

Otherwise, you'll probably be starting around 50-70k out of BC.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lawlcat » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:19 pm

Lav1289 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I am not dead set on "biglaw" but would like to make at least 100K coming out of law school.


Aaaaaaaaargh.

http://www.elsblog.org/.shared/image.ht ... imodal.jpg

"I want to make at least 100k" means you are dead set on BigLaw.

See the chart I posted above. That works as a pretty good (possibly over-generous) estimation of odds of making 135K+ out of law school. UConn and Mason are not on there.

BC still seems like something of a gamble, but it's not much more of one than the T14. (40% or so instead of 60% or so.) They probably also have much better LRAP.

However, and this bears frequent repetition: "I don't want much, just six figures" is not a modest aspiration outside of Yale. People assume that law school leads to at least making more than they would without law school. This is why there are hundreds of law schools that can charge six figures and still turn people away.

I hope this can go unsaid, but further: even the people who think "I'm smart so I'll at least be in the top third or so" do not deserve the misery that can result from such delusion.

Lav1289
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lav1289 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:36 pm

Ok, gotcha. The reason I started this post is that I am not fully convinced I will be in the top 50% at BC, so I want to make sure it would be worth the investment. I work hard on my studies but I know that law school folks are generally really bright and most will do well.

Also, I am concerned because my husband is still in debt from his law school experience. He works in government and has some loan forgiveness but I think he is hopeful I will go for the private sector to help us out financially. I've been working as a teacher for the past year and even if I were to go into government I would probably still make more than I do now. I'm not trying to be greedy with the "over 100K" comment but I think that is only reasonable if I'm going to go to a school that costs $75000 per year. Make sense? Thanks again for the feedback.

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Alex-Trof
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Alex-Trof » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:56 pm

Lav1289 wrote:Ok, gotcha. The reason I started this post is that I am not fully convinced I will be in the top 50% at BC, so I want to make sure it would be worth the investment. I work hard on my studies but I know that law school folks are generally really bright and most will do well.

Also, I am concerned because my husband is still in debt from his law school experience. He works in government and has some loan forgiveness but I think he is hopeful I will go for the private sector to help us out financially. I've been working as a teacher for the past year and even if I were to go into government I would probably still make more than I do now. I'm not trying to be greedy with the "over 100K" comment but I think that is only reasonable if I'm going to go to a school that costs $75000 per year. Make sense? Thanks again for the feedback.


IMO, stay in teaching. You will accumulate even more debt with a significant risk of making the same amount (if not less) than you're making now as a teacher.

Have you thought about getting a master's in administration and pursuing principal career route? If you are smart enough to get into BC, you will probably be very competitive to become an administrator making 70-90K a year.

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IceAero
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby IceAero » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:38 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Hows Sullivan and Worcester treating you? They generally dip to median at BU too.



Ahaha, god bless TLS! This is why I hadn't logged into this site for over a year, and I think I'll keep it that way. Congrats again on the BC acceptance OP; feel free to shoot me a PM if you'd like to chat more about the school without a peanut gallery.

And, melon, I'm not working for a firm in Boston, but I appreciate your clear knowledge of this subject. Congrats again on your awesome job and contribution to this thread.

o/

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Lawlcat
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Lawlcat » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:55 pm

Lav1289 wrote:Ok, gotcha. The reason I started this post is that I am not fully convinced I will be in the top 50% at BC, so I want to make sure it would be worth the investment. I work hard on my studies but I know that law school folks are generally really bright and most will do well.


You'd be amazed how many applicants will angrily maintain that they will of course "make it work somehow" because "I've always done great in the job search" or even just flat-out claiming they'll graduate near the top of their class because the school is "below" them. I am relieved you're not making the same mistake.

Lav1289 wrote:Also, I am concerned because my husband is still in debt from his law school experience. He works in government and has some loan forgiveness but I think he is hopeful I will go for the private sector to help us out financially. I've been working as a teacher for the past year and even if I were to go into government I would probably still make more than I do now. I'm not trying to be greedy with the "over 100K" comment but I think that is only reasonable if I'm going to go to a school that costs $75000 per year. Make sense? Thanks again for the feedback.


Absolutely makes sense. However, I think you need to more or less combine (1) cost of attendance and (2) probability of BigLaw salary times payoff to get an idea about where might be a good investment. Even if a school is quite cheap, if it offers only a 1-5% chance of a BigLaw salary, then given that other legal salaries are really quite low it may be more dangerous than spending more money on a school giving a 30% chance. If you were thinking PI, that might change things substantially. You aren't necessarily stuck in the debt pit: LRAP/IBR can basically push those loans aside (in exchange for living "like a student" for the foreseeable future). However, if it's important that you make money, then you do need to dig yourself out of that pit, and that'll take a BigLaw salary.

I suppose I might argue that it's sort of like a pair of betting games, with $500,000 as the prize.

(1) You pay $200,000 and flip a coin. Heads you win.

(2) You pay $50,000 and draw a card from a deck of fifty-two cards. If it's a red seven, you win.

Which is really more dangerous?

The suggestion to consider alternate career paths is I think a very sensible one. We need smart people in education. So many administrators are idiots who ruin the good work of under-paid and under-appreciated (perhaps more accurately "over-abused") teachers.

One final thought: given that you mention being married...BigLaw jobs are not generally conducive to family life. Not only that, but the hours and stress suck really hard. Being an academic administrator (a principal or suchlike) might be much more rewarding and almost as lucrative (certainly more lucrative in a per-hour sense).

So perhaps I should add a third possibility:

(3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:12 pm

IceAero wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
Hows Sullivan and Worcester treating you? They generally dip to median at BU too.



Ahaha, god bless TLS! This is why I hadn't logged into this site for over a year, and I think I'll keep it that way. Congrats again on the BC acceptance OP; feel free to shoot me a PM if you'd like to chat more about the school without a peanut gallery.

And, melon, I'm not working for a firm in Boston, but I appreciate your clear knowledge of this subject. Congrats again on your awesome job and contribution to this thread.

o/


Blindmelon is practically a lawyer and still trolling on a board for 0Ls. Pretty sure that says enough about Blindmelon right there. lol.

MVPson
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby MVPson » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:13 pm

Nope. Definitely not.

HeavenWood
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:14 pm

IceAero wrote:I would pick BC over any school outside of the T-14 (short of a T-35 full ride)


For Boston, sure. Anywhere else? Ehhh...

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174
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Re: Is BC Worth the Big Bucks?

Postby 174 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:16 pm

Go to BC but be prepared to drop out if your first semester grades suck.




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