Emory Drops to 30 Forum

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Further q about Emory OCI: Is it the kind where the employers choose whom they want to inteview (and they all end up interviewing the same few people at the top of the class)? Or is it the kind where employers have to interview whomever they're told to (much preferable)?

Sorry for the dumb q; I'm a 0L first learning about OCI.

Yes, it is the former, which is called pure preselect. The disadvantage of it is if you're low enough in the class you can feasibly have a zero firm OCI run. The advantage of it is that if you're low enough in the class that no firm wants to interview, they wouldn't have hired you outside of interviews anyways. Conversely, the interviews you do have start looking sweeter because they've already prescreened you and you've passed.

[flcath]

Further q about Emory OCI: Is it the kind where the employers choose whom they want to inteview (and they all end up interviewing the same few people at the top of the class)? Or is it the kind where employers have to interview whomever they're told to (much preferable)?

Sorry for the dumb q; I'm a 0L first learning about OCI.

Yes, it is the former, which is called pure preselect. The disadvantage of it is if you're low enough in the class you can feasibly have a zero firm OCI run. The advantage of it is that if you're low enough in the class that no firm wants to interview, they wouldn't have hired you outside of interviews anyways. Conversely, the interviews you do have start looking sweeter because they've already prescreened you and you've passed.

Don't assume it's one good, the other bad.

We have a Yale-style blind OCI process at ND, where if you bid high enough on, say, Kirkland with your, say, 2.87 GPA, you'll get an interview with them. In addition to taking up a time slot that could be used by a student w/ an actual chance at that job, the inefficiency of the process deters firms (particularly non-Chicago/NYC firms that were only looking to hire 1-2 anyway) that were on the fence about coming to show up at all.

It's very egalitarian and all-for-one-one-for-all-ish (as is our refusal to rank), but it's an irritation to kids towards the top.

[Robespierre]

Don't assume it's one good, the other bad.

We have a Yale-style blind OCI process at ND, where if you bid high enough on, say, Kirkland with your, say, 2.87 GPA, you'll get an interview with them. In addition to taking up a time slot that could be used by a student w/ an actual chance at that job, the inefficiency of the process deters firms (particularly non-Chicago/NYC firms that were only looking to hire 1-2 anyway) that were on the fence about coming to show up at all.

It's very egalitarian and all-for-one-one-for-all-ish (as is our refusal to rank), but it's an irritation to kids towards the top.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. I guess one's take on this issue turns on whether your grades are good or bad.

I wish there were a site that specified which schools are pre-select and which are blind. That would really help 0Ls.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

Don't assume it's one good, the other bad.

We have a Yale-style blind OCI process at ND, where if you bid high enough on, say, Kirkland with your, say, 2.87 GPA, you'll get an interview with them. In addition to taking up a time slot that could be used by a student w/ an actual chance at that job, the inefficiency of the process deters firms (particularly non-Chicago/NYC firms that were only looking to hire 1-2 anyway) that were on the fence about coming to show up at all.

It's very egalitarian and all-for-one-one-for-all-ish (as is our refusal to rank), but it's an irritation to kids towards the top.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. I guess one's take on this issue turns on whether your grades are good or bad.

I wish there were a site that specified which schools are pre-select and which are blind. That would really help 0Ls.

Well, there are a handful of other styles of OCI, and then combinations in between. Honestly it's not something a 0L should really be caring about when they're thinking about law schools because there isn't a system that is largely advantageous than any other.

[flcath]

Don't assume it's one good, the other bad.

We have a Yale-style blind OCI process at ND, where if you bid high enough on, say, Kirkland with your, say, 2.87 GPA, you'll get an interview with them. In addition to taking up a time slot that could be used by a student w/ an actual chance at that job, the inefficiency of the process deters firms (particularly non-Chicago/NYC firms that were only looking to hire 1-2 anyway) that were on the fence about coming to show up at all.

It's very egalitarian and all-for-one-one-for-all-ish (as is our refusal to rank), but it's an irritation to kids towards the top.

Thanks for the info, very interesting. I guess one's take on this issue turns on whether your grades are good or bad.

I wish there were a site that specified which schools are pre-select and which are blind. That would really help 0Ls.

Well, there are a handful of other styles of OCI, and then combinations in between. Honestly it's not something a 0L should really be caring about when they're thinking about law schools because there isn't a system that is largely advantageous than any other.

This is true, and was kinda the point I was making.

The different OCI types just distribute the opportunity differently: ND's system kinda hurts kids in the 15-25 %tiles in favor of the 25-40 %tiles. Other systems make it more of a pure meritocracy. Given that you don't know where you'll stand rank-wise as a 0L, just ignore it.

In any system (applied to school like ND or Emory), if you're top 10%, firms are gonna know and you'll be fine; if you're below median, firms will likewise know and you won't get anything out of OCI.

[cfdhjk]

yes, i visited Emory this week, and was there the day after the email was sent... I loved the school but the employment statistics are just very troubling

It is quite worrying that the Dean's email came off sounding a bit less strong and inspiring than I hoped it would be. It sounded more like what it was, a damage control email. I don't fault him for that, but I had hoped he'd have more to say about the employment statistics that would be convincing.....the main damage to Emory here is that of perception, and even with Emory's established rep I think the school might take a hit. Is anyone else who is an admitted student reconsidering/deeply mulling their plans to go to Emory because of this?

[Metaread]

What gives Emory its reputation for "NYC reach"? On the links provided with firms that did OCI, the majority are Atlanta (makes sense I guess). Does Emory have connections to NYC? It's good to hear that the no. of OCI isn't the worst--hearing that it's around ND's number is mildly comforting.

But would Emory really get you good jobs in NYC? And please, don't reply saying "if you place in the top 10%" or some similar nonsense, everyone knows that if you place at the top of the class you'll get almost anywhere if you try hard. I'm talking about would Emory have enough reputation in NYC to establish a decent foothold on Big Law...yes? No? It's competing with Fordham, Columbia and NYU, not to mention the other much lower-ranking LSes.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

What gives Emory its reputation for "NYC reach"? On the links provided with firms that did OCI, the majority are Atlanta (makes sense I guess). Does Emory have connections to NYC? It's good to hear that the no. of OCI isn't the worst--hearing that it's around ND's number is mildly comforting.

But would Emory really get you good jobs in NYC? And please, don't reply saying "if you place in the top 10%" or some similar nonsense, everyone knows that if you place at the top of the class you'll get almost anywhere if you try hard. I'm talking about would Emory have enough reputation in NYC to establish a decent foothold on Big Law...yes? No? It's competing with Fordham, Columbia and NYU, not to mention the other much lower-ranking LSes.

That's sort of the nature of the beast though. If we're talking NYC biglaw then there are actually very few schools outside of the T14 (and fordham) where NYC firms even come to OCI. 10%/LR types from IUB, Iowa, William and Mary, or Illinois who want NYC are going to have to send unsolicited resumes to firms seeking employment and likely don't have much of a chance no matter how hard they try, whereas from Emory there are actually about 10 vault firms that do OCI making your chances much more realistic.

Of the handful of people I know personally who have NYC biglaw lined up, all of them are in the top 10%, I wouldn't say it's impossible if you're on the outside of that percentage, but I wouldn't say you have a realistic chance. However, there are plenty of schools currently ranked above Emory where regardless of your class rank, your school simply doesn't place in New York.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

Why would you go to Emory if you wanted to work in NYC. That makes no sense. If you got into Emory, you probably could have scored Fordham or BU/BC, all of which place significantly better in NY than Emory. You don't go to Emory to try and get a NYC biglaw job.

[JusticeHarlan]

If you got into Emory, you probably could have scored Fordham or BU/BC

Well, Emory has a lot more leeway for GPA than those schools; below a 3.4 and you'll need to be a 167 or 168 for BU/BC/Fordham, while a 3.2/166 has a decent shot at Emory, looking at LSN. I haven't followed this cycle all that closely, though.

EDIT: I mean, look at Emory last cycle, there was pretty much a vertical line drawn at 166 without regard to GPA.