Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which should I choose? (Estimated COA)

Vanderbilt (free, but have to work 10 hours/week)
84
47%
Penn ($204,000)
62
34%
Texas ($150,000)
6
3%
Northwestern ($214,000)
11
6%
Georgetown ($175,000)
10
6%
Cornell ($217,000)
2
1%
UWashington ($110,000)
5
3%
 
Total votes: 180

bearsfan1
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby bearsfan1 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:09 pm

Tarheel10 wrote:Good lord. I typed a book. Sorry guys.


If you don't mind me asking, what were your numbers? I'll have a year of Americorps under my belt before applying to schools too, and am going to apply to some of the same schools as yourself. Also, if I were in your shoes I'd take Vandy, but you have some great options so good luck.

hefferlump
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby hefferlump » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:20 pm

Georgetown (also biased, because I go there).

Curriculum B/Section 3 IS amazing (and is in no way a silly thing to consider...if you're playing hard to get, you can try and get admissions to guarantee you a spot in the section, which I know some people in my class managed) and if the OP is really interested in PI or government work, then our biglaw numbers don't mean squat.

And, there's no way that you could consider this a "bad" part of town anymore (that wasn't the case 10 years ago, however). I'm a woman and have walked from home to school to coffee shops and everywhere in between for three years with no problems.

Let me know if you have other questions?

Tarheel10
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby Tarheel10 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:25 pm

hefferlump wrote:Georgetown (also biased, because I go there).

Curriculum B/Section 3 IS amazing (and is in no way a silly thing to consider...if you're playing hard to get, you can try and get admissions to guarantee you a spot in the section, which I know some people in my class managed) and if the OP is really interested in PI or government work, then our biglaw numbers don't mean squat.

And, there's no way that you could consider this a "bad" part of town anymore (that wasn't the case 10 years ago, however). I'm a woman and have walked from home to school to coffee shops and everywhere in between for three years with no problems.

Let me know if you have other questions?


Thanks heffer, I'm glad to hear Curriculum B is as amazing as I think it would be. That is really a huge plus in my book. It lines up very well with the philosophy behind a series of honors courses I took during undergrad, and really suits my interests and personality.

Also, I realize now that my posts could easily be misconstrued as talking about safety, but I meant the physical ability to walk to class, bars, etc - in terms of distance. And "less than ideal" as not a great music/bars/restaurants/coffeehouse scene around the school.

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Lawlcat
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby Lawlcat » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:57 am

Investigate LRAPs.

Tarheel10
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby Tarheel10 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:06 pm

Update: family business would be willing to pay for the remainder of COA for Vandy (~150k) if go there and work ~10 hours a week. Good or bad idea? No strings attached for post JD.

Wouldn't have access to a great B-school like Penn or Northwestern, wouldn't get to go to a comparable school with equally hot women and good sports, bars, etc (Texas), and wouldn't get curriculum B, but debt-free would be huge. Thoughts?

Also, it seems like I'd have piss poor mobility having been raised in Nashville, gone to UNC, spent a year in Washington state, and then gone to Vandy.

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whitman
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby whitman » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:32 am

VANDERBILT.
Tarheel10 wrote:Update: family business would be willing to pay for the remainder of COA for Vandy (~150k) if go there and work ~10 hours a week. Good or bad idea? No strings attached for post JD.

Wouldn't have access to a great B-school like Penn or Northwestern, wouldn't get to go to a comparable school with equally hot women and good sports, bars, etc (Texas), and wouldn't get curriculum B, but debt-free would be huge. Thoughts?

Also, it seems like I'd have piss poor mobility having been raised in Nashville, gone to UNC, spent a year in Washington state, and then gone to Vandy.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:14 am

There is not a chance on this earth that any of the options listed are worth 200k + interest more than Vandy.

charliebrownwn
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby charliebrownwn » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:20 am

I wouldn't pass on free Vandy for any of those other options.

OPTION A: Gamble your future on $200,000 you don't have

OPTION B: Get free law degree


Easy. The only possible exception would be if you get into CCN, and even then I'd still take the money. But do question your family and make sure they aren't going to hang this over your head.

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Moxie
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Moxie » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:32 am

Patriot1208 wrote:There is not a chance on this earth that any of the options listed are worth 200k + interest more than Vandy.

charliebrownwn wrote:I wouldn't pass on free Vandy for any of those other options.

OPTION A: Gamble your future on $200,000 you don't have

OPTION B: Get free law degree


Easy. The only possible exception would be if you get into CCN, and even then I'd still take the money. But do question your family and make sure they aren't going to hang this over your head.


These. Vandy is the no-brainer here.

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Verity
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Verity » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:36 am

Enjoy Killadelphia.

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drylo
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby drylo » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:07 am

Tarheel10 wrote:Also, it seems like I'd have piss poor mobility having been raised in Nashville, gone to UNC, spent a year in Washington state, and then gone to Vandy.


About this...

Your mobility is going to pretty limited no matter where you go, honestly. Even from HYS, you can't just waltz into a secondary market (i.e., anywhere other than NYC/DC/Chicago/LA/SF) and think you have a chance at a job. (I don't have experience bidding in any of the following cities, but cities like Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, and Dallas may be more willing to hire top candidates if they don't have ties, but even these seem to like some regional ties.) I will say that I have one friend who will be working in Charlotte this summer (at a large firm) without any real ties to Charlotte, but he has a somewhat unique situation (i.e., one that does not apply in your case)--and it is the only time I have seen that happen.

From what I have seen, it is going to be near impossible to try to get a job in any city where the market rate is below $140k unless (1) you are from there, (2) your spouse is from there, (3) you have spent time working there in the past, or (4) you went to law school and/or undergrad there. I would say that the law school/undergrad tie is not necessarily terribly strong either--it could be, but I have seen a number of firms blow that off too. Firms are surprisingly--shockingly, even--hesitant to hire people without demonstrated ties to a market. I guess it is because when they hire relatively small summer class sizes, they can afford to be selective.

The moral of the story is that if you go to Vandy, you could get a job in NYC, DC (if grades are good enough, etc.), Atlanta, Nashville, maybe Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte, maybe Washington state if you want to go back, and maybe (probably somewhat depending on your grades and sales pitch combo) in TX or elsewhere in semi-major markets. But if you want to work at more of a lifestyle firm, your geographic options do shrink pretty dramatically--probably mainly to Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, maybe Washington state. (Of course, the other wildcard is if you have a spouse/serious SO... for instance, if you marry a girl from Cincinnati, that suddenly becomes an option.)

If you don't go to Vandy, though, your options don't really expand that much geographically. I mean, if you just really want to work in Philly, then you should probably go to Penn over Vandy. And if you are dying to work in Chicago, it might be worth considering Northwestern (although I think Chicago would be easier to get to from Vandy than Philly would be). But going to Penn doesn't necessarily make it any easier to get a sweet job in Denver, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Columbus, etc.

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Grizz
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Grizz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:06 pm

What drylo said is the biggest piece of wisdom that often gets forgotten on TLS.

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Verity
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Verity » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:03 pm

rad law wrote:What drylo said is the biggest piece of wisdom that often gets forgotten on TLS.



So, if someone goes to law school at IU-B but is from Sacramento, all things being equal, he/she will have an easier time getting a job near Sacramento than a UC-Davis grad that is not from California?

Tarheel10
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Re: Vandy ($50k), Penn, GULC ($30k), NWestern, UT ($50k)

Postby Tarheel10 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:14 pm

drylo wrote:
Tarheel10 wrote:Also, it seems like I'd have piss poor mobility having been raised in Nashville, gone to UNC, spent a year in Washington state, and then gone to Vandy.


About this...

Your mobility is going to pretty limited no matter where you go, honestly.

From what I have seen, it is going to be near impossible to try to get a job in any city where the market rate is below $140k unless (1) you are from there, (2) your spouse is from there, (3) you have spent time working there in the past, or (4) you went to law school and/or undergrad there. I would say that the law school/undergrad tie is not necessarily terribly strong either--it could be, but I have seen a number of firms blow that off too. Firms are surprisingly--shockingly, even--hesitant to hire people without demonstrated ties to a market. I guess it is because when they hire relatively small summer class sizes, they can afford to be selective.

The moral of the story is that if you go to Vandy, you could get a job in NYC, DC (if grades are good enough, etc.), Atlanta, Nashville, maybe Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte, maybe Washington state if you want to go back, and maybe (probably somewhat depending on your grades and sales pitch combo) in TX or elsewhere in semi-major markets. But if you want to work at more of a lifestyle firm, your geographic options do shrink pretty dramatically--probably mainly to Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, maybe Washington state. (Of course, the other wildcard is if you have a spouse/serious SO... for instance, if you marry a girl from Cincinnati, that suddenly becomes an option.)

If you don't go to Vandy, though, your options don't really expand that much geographically. I mean, if you just really want to work in Philly, then you should probably go to Penn over Vandy. And if you are dying to work in Chicago, it might be worth considering Northwestern (although I think Chicago would be easier to get to from Vandy than Philly would be). But going to Penn doesn't necessarily make it any easier to get a sweet job in Denver, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Columbus, etc.


Thanks for the lengthy, well thought out advice. It's interesting that yuo think going to other schools over Vandy do not expand my mobility. I definitely could see how going to Penn over Vandy wouldn't help me get a job in, say, Denver, but UColorado's scholarship was decidely underwhelming. How about this: does attending Penn or Georgetown over Vandy increase my ability to get a job within the regions you mentioned enough to warrant considering attending over Vanderbilt?

Also, what do people think about the feasibility of working 10-15 hours per week while attending law school and trying to have some sort of life?

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Grizz
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Grizz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:36 pm

Verity wrote:
rad law wrote:What drylo said is the biggest piece of wisdom that often gets forgotten on TLS.



So, if someone goes to law school at IU-B but is from Sacramento, all things being equal, he/she will have an easier time getting a job near Sacramento than a UC-Davis grad that is not from California?


All things are never equal, but, I'd wager IU-B doesn't have a ton of cachet on the west coast. That person is gonna have some difficult questions about why they went to IU-B, a very regional school, when they want to work in Sacramento, especially because Davis is right there. Maybe they can try to cover it up if IU-B had a program they really liked or if they also had some connection to Indiana (say a former fiancee or family).

UC-Davis grad may or may not have a tough time depending on his ties to the area and how much he's demonstrated his commitment. You can't develop a bright line rule.

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby pleasetryagain » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:43 pm

I can't believe Vandy is not a runaway here. Ten hours per week is easily doable especially if you are working from home. The free JD from Vandy seems to be the clear choice over 6 figure debt from a school that will likely give you the same prospects for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.
Last edited by pleasetryagain on Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mr_toad
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby mr_toad » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:44 pm

I thought you weren't allowed to work your first year at most schools. ?

mscarn23
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby mscarn23 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:02 pm

Working 10-15 hours a week is doable, provided you make a schedule and dedicate yourself to sticking to it. I'm at full-time 1L at a school in the 30-40 range, and spend ~30-35 hours/week running the business I started prior to law school (in full disclosure though, I spent the last 5 years before beginning law school logging in 70-80 hour work weeks). It's definitely something that may make your life a bit more difficult than those around you, but in my case I'm more efficient when my schedule is completely slammed with stuff (I'm also stuck with a pretty big daily commute which makes things even tougher).

As far as having a social life, I could not comment- I'm married, so between that, work, commuting, and law school, I don't have much time for socializing with law school people. That's also been true as far as extra-curricular activities outside of work- trial bar, community service events, etc.

Either way, 10-20 hours of work/week will definitely not kill your grades (it hasn't mine anyway), and doesn't have to kill your social life if you're interested in having one (with those extracurriculars though, depending on the hours that your job needs you, it obviously might preclude participation).

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drylo
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby drylo » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:04 pm

rad law wrote:
Verity wrote:
rad law wrote:What drylo said is the biggest piece of wisdom that often gets forgotten on TLS.



So, if someone goes to law school at IU-B but is from Sacramento, all things being equal, he/she will have an easier time getting a job near Sacramento than a UC-Davis grad that is not from California?


All things are never equal, but, I'd wager IU-B doesn't have a ton of cachet on the west coast. That person is gonna have some difficult questions about why they went to IU-B, a very regional school, when they want to work in Sacramento, especially because Davis is right there. Maybe they can try to cover it up if IU-B had a program they really liked or if they also had some connection to Indiana (say a former fiancee or family).

UC-Davis grad may or may not have a tough time depending on his ties to the area and how much he's demonstrated his commitment. You can't develop a bright line rule.


I generally agree with rad law's thoughts. Also, I honestly don't know anything really about either IU-B or Sacramento's legal market, so I have to preface this by saying that I am speaking in generalities here.

I think what I would say to someone who is from Sacramento and interested in working in Sacramento that it would be a better all-around decision to go to Davis than to IU-B. It might be different if IU-B had a significantly better reputation, but as far as I know, that is not the case. If all else was equal, your two hypothetical people might have similar chances of getting a job in Sacramento. But the reality is that all else is never equal, like rad law said. For instance, if the Davis grad who is not from the area is married, and his/her spouse has a job in the area now, that could make for a strong tie--but maybe not if you are looking to go back to your hometown in Oklahoma... there are just way too many variables to assess that kind of hypo. I do think that you run the risk of sending mixed messages if you are from Sac-town and want to work there, but go school in Indiana (unless there is a good explanation). But I am hesitant to make any of these statements really, because there are so many other variables at play in every individual situation.

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mr_toad
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby mr_toad » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:11 pm

mscarn23 wrote:Working 10-15 hours a week is doable, provided you make a schedule and dedicate yourself to sticking to it. I'm at full-time 1L at a school in the 30-40 range, and spend ~30-35 hours/week running the business I started prior to law school (in full disclosure though, I spent the last 5 years before beginning law school logging in 70-80 hour work weeks). It's definitely something that may make your life a bit more difficult than those around you, but in my case I'm more efficient when my schedule is completely slammed with stuff (I'm also stuck with a pretty big daily commute which makes things even tougher).

As far as having a social life, I could not comment- I'm married, so between that, work, commuting, and law school, I don't have much time for socializing with law school people. That's also been true as far as extra-curricular activities outside of work- trial bar, community service events, etc.

Either way, 10-20 hours of work/week will definitely not kill your grades (it hasn't mine anyway), and doesn't have to kill your social life if you're interested in having one (with those extracurriculars though, depending on the hours that your job needs you, it obviously might preclude participation).


My point is not whether it's doable: I think that some law schools simply state that you're not allowed to work your first year. Can anyone give insight to this to help the OP?

Tarheel10
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Tarheel10 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:17 pm

mr_toad wrote:
mscarn23 wrote:Working 10-15 hours a week is doable, provided you make a schedule and dedicate yourself to sticking to it. I'm at full-time 1L at a school in the 30-40 range, and spend ~30-35 hours/week running the business I started prior to law school (in full disclosure though, I spent the last 5 years before beginning law school logging in 70-80 hour work weeks). It's definitely something that may make your life a bit more difficult than those around you, but in my case I'm more efficient when my schedule is completely slammed with stuff (I'm also stuck with a pretty big daily commute which makes things even tougher).

As far as having a social life, I could not comment- I'm married, so between that, work, commuting, and law school, I don't have much time for socializing with law school people. That's also been true as far as extra-curricular activities outside of work- trial bar, community service events, etc.

Either way, 10-20 hours of work/week will definitely not kill your grades (it hasn't mine anyway), and doesn't have to kill your social life if you're interested in having one (with those extracurriculars though, depending on the hours that your job needs you, it obviously might preclude participation).


My point is not whether it's doable: I think that some law schools simply state that you're not allowed to work your first year. Can anyone give insight to this to help the OP?

Yeah, thanks for raising this point. This is a crucial question. Anyone know?

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brose
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby brose » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:19 pm

Tarheel10 wrote:Yeah, thanks for raising this point. This is a crucial question. Anyone know?


Go to the Vandy website or email them. I thought you couldn't work more than 20 hrs/ week but that just might be at UT.

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Grizz
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby Grizz » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:22 pm

Tarheel10 wrote:
mr_toad wrote:
mscarn23 wrote:Working 10-15 hours a week is doable, provided you make a schedule and dedicate yourself to sticking to it. I'm at full-time 1L at a school in the 30-40 range, and spend ~30-35 hours/week running the business I started prior to law school (in full disclosure though, I spent the last 5 years before beginning law school logging in 70-80 hour work weeks). It's definitely something that may make your life a bit more difficult than those around you, but in my case I'm more efficient when my schedule is completely slammed with stuff (I'm also stuck with a pretty big daily commute which makes things even tougher).

As far as having a social life, I could not comment- I'm married, so between that, work, commuting, and law school, I don't have much time for socializing with law school people. That's also been true as far as extra-curricular activities outside of work- trial bar, community service events, etc.

Either way, 10-20 hours of work/week will definitely not kill your grades (it hasn't mine anyway), and doesn't have to kill your social life if you're interested in having one (with those extracurriculars though, depending on the hours that your job needs you, it obviously might preclude participation).


Vandy is 20 hrs max of work per week.

My point is not whether it's doable: I think that some law schools simply state that you're not allowed to work your first year. Can anyone give insight to this to help the OP?

Yeah, thanks for raising this point. This is a crucial question. Anyone know?

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BruceWayne
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:24 pm

That's an aba rule. And it doesn't completely ban working; it only bans working over a certain amount of hours. 10 hours a week doesn't cross that threshold. Go to Vandy all day everyday.

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mr_toad
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Re: Vandy (free if 10 hrs work/wk, Penn, GULC, NWestern, UT ($$)

Postby mr_toad » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:29 pm

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'm sure many of us are interested in this.




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