UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

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SupraVln180
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UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:44 pm

Okay, so here is my dilemma, there is a good chance I want to get back to a big city like NY or DC, but also have no money and am extremely debt adverse. Here are my options:

UNC with 75% tuition: I will graduate with pretty much no debt, due to money I have saved up over the years. I really love Chapel Hill and the culture of the school and I feel like I would genuinely enjoy my 3 years here.

Notre Dame with 12K/Year: I like the fact that Notre Dame's lay prestige is comparable to an Ivy and in turn, has the best national job prospects out of these schools. I haven't visited yet, but I don't like that it will probably be colder than NYC, but I am from the northeast, so I can deal with it. From, pictures however, it is a gorgeous school and would be a nice place to get a legal education.

Fordham with a measly 5K/Year: It is the part-time program, so I get the 5 K/Year over four years. I hate Fordham, but they are kind of the hometown school, (that I could actually get into). I understand it will give me the best NY job prospects, however I would probably live at home (I am from NYC), therefore I would suspect my grades would be worse b/c I have alot of distractions and shit around my home/neighborhood.

What the fuck should I do? Thanks in advance.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:47 pm

UNC, unless you are admitted to Cornell.

SupraVln180
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:50 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:UNC, unless you are admitted to Cornell.


Still waiting on them. Do you think I would have to be equally high in my class for NYC from UNC and ND? Or does ND give me a bit more leeway? That's my real dilemma.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:57 pm

Only current UNC & Notre Dame law students are likely to be able to answer that question.

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mez06
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby mez06 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:25 pm

Started typing advice, and then realized how big of a cluster fuck your situation is lol. Seriously, pretty hard choice.

Wrong or Right, maybe think about it from a student destined to finish at the median. Median Fordham, you can snag something in NY. Median Notre Dame...ehhh, you might be able to get back.

Median at UNC, no. But at least you wouldn't be in Lamborghini debt.

The only thing for certain that I think you can go off of as of now, is really how much being at the house and around fam will truly affect you. Add that stress over 4 years. Is it doable? or is it destined for Doom? Depending on degree of this and whether Cornell shows up in the picture, it might be smart to holla at the family via skype and not through a room door.

FiveSermon
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby FiveSermon » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:33 pm

Cross your fingers for Cornell. If you truly want NYC/DC, you should retake.

TheFactor
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby TheFactor » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:54 pm

FiveSermon wrote:Cross your fingers for Cornell. If you truly want NYC/DC, you should retake.

SupraVln180
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:07 pm

mez06 wrote:Started typing advice, and then realized how big of a cluster fuck your situation is lol. Seriously, pretty hard choice.

Wrong or Right, maybe think about it from a student destined to finish at the median. Median Fordham, you can snag something in NY. Median Notre Dame...ehhh, you might be able to get back.

Median at UNC, no. But at least you wouldn't be in Lamborghini debt.

The only thing for certain that I think you can go off of as of now, is really how much being at the house and around fam will truly affect you. Add that stress over 4 years. Is it doable? or is it destined for Doom? Depending on degree of this and whether Cornell shows up in the picture, it might be smart to holla at the family via skype and not through a room door.


I doubt I can do the family/ girlfriend thing at home for 4 years of Fordham. My grades will suffer. UNC is not as risky, because I personally would be okay living in Raleigh or Charlotte, but my girlfriend would not. I think my girlfriend however would move to Chicago with me, if need be, but I dislike Chicago the most out of all the above mentioned cities. I am crossing my fingers for Cornell, but I already had an unbelievable cycle for my numbers so I can't count on it. I should also mention, I know and keep in contact with a prominent NYC lawyer and a few more lawyers who work at mid to decent sized firms all in NYC and one is from my undergrad to likes me. I don't know how much I can swing this, but I know his firm consistently interviews at Notre Dame, as well as Fordham.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:09 pm

Sorry, but you may need to rethink the girlfriend thing.

P.S. UNC undergrad is overwhelmingly female.

SupraVln180
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:28 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Sorry, but you may need to rethink the girlfriend thing.

P.S. UNC undergrad is overwhelmingly female.


Lol I've been with my girl for 3 years and it is pretty serious, it would be tough (aka we would probably break up) if we couldn't work a living arrangement out after LS graduation.

SupraVln180
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:00 am

...And as for a retake, my practice test average was a 168, so honestly, even if I get a few more points (I doubt I will hit the high end of my average), I have had a beastly cycle for my numbers and won't gain much by retaking unless I hit a 170+.

deadhipsters
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby deadhipsters » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:07 am

I agree you are in a tough situation. That said, I think you have to go with UNC. Although ND and Fordham are awesome schools neither of them justify that kind of debt. Also, getting biglaw out of Fordham at medium would certainly be a challenge and I have heard that OCI's at Notre Dame is way down.

SupraVln180
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:04 pm

shameless bump.

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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:15 pm

UPDATE: I just looked up some OCI info and Fordham is pretty much out, just because I can't live at home and I don't want to do part-time. So here is what I got.

The only places my girlfriend would tolerate moving after graduation are NY, DC or CA. So that boils my job prospects down to these three cities.

Notre Dame had 11 NY Firms, 5 DC Firms and 14 CA firms at last years OCI.

UNC had 8 NY Firms, 9 DC Firms and 8 CA Firms at last years OCI.

I don't really know what to make of this, does this necessarily mean that Notre Dame is that much better for NY than UNC, is 3 more firms from a region considered alot? Or will these firms only hire from the top 10 percent anyway at either school?

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mez06
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby mez06 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:37 pm

Unless you finish near the top of your class at either, I don't see you even being able to get to Cali. Do you have any ties there? ever lived there before? That's a tough sell to an employer as there ARE people from California that attend both schools. Especially ND.

I have no idea the legal regard for ND vs UNC in the NY market. I would IMAGINE though that ND's traditional prestige would be a bump above UNC's obviously.

And to be honest, seems like you're trying to squeeze a dollar out of a penny with these options man.

SupraVln180
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby SupraVln180 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:42 pm

mez06 wrote:Unless you finish near the top of your class at either, I don't see you even being able to get to Cali. Do you have any ties there? ever lived there before? That's a tough sell to an employer as there ARE people from California that attend both schools. Especially ND.

I have no idea the legal regard for ND vs UNC in the NY market. I would IMAGINE though that ND's traditional prestige would be a bump above UNC's obviously.

And to be honest, seems like you're trying to squeeze a dollar out of a penny with these options man.


Not necessarily, I am well aware of the job market and "regionalness" of law schools. I know none of these options are ideal, I just want to carefully review my options given the available information and make a decision. Thanks for the input, I know my decision should really rely on debt and my comfort level of practicing in the south or midwest if I can't get a big market.

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Grizz
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby Grizz » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:43 pm

With those career goals and that girlfriend, none of these schools are what you want. I hate saying this, but you might want to retake bro.

Cal4future
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby Cal4future » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:57 pm

Last year Notre Dame had an OSIP (off site interview program) in L.A. in which 12ish firms showed up to. I am not sure if anyone got offers from the program. Some of the firms were Alston & Bird, Proskauer Rose, and Stradling Yocca for example. The nationwide lay prestige is pretty good.

That being said, because you are so debt averse it makes sense for you to graduate debt free from a great school that from what I hear is a great place to be. Just because you go to ND doesn't mean you're going to be at the top of the class. Landing the jobs in big markets is very competitive.

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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby Alyosha » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:59 pm

I'm a 2L at UNC. I know a handful of people going to large firms in New York and DC this summer. I think most of the them are at the top of the class (at least top 10%) or IP. I will say I'm not super social so I don't know a lot of people' s summer plans. My sense is that you need at least top 10% to get NY from UNC, and even then it's no guarantee. Same with DC, though the grade requirements in DC may be even higher. In addition to OCI, there is a separate career fair for NY firms at the beginning of the summer. However, I think maybe 7 or 8 firms showed up, and I'm not sure if anyone got anything from it.

In general I would say maybe 25% of the class got anything out of OCI this year (though that's a complete guess). I really like UNC and I think it's a great school, but coming here with the only goal being a large firm in NYC/DC/LA is probably not the best plan. I have no idea about public interest or smaller firms in those cities, but I suppose that's just as hard. Is waiting a year and retaking not an option at all? Let me know if you have other questions about UNC.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:05 pm

I think I remember seeing Fordham having the better biglaw placement stats in the February NLJ article on biglaw placement.

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queenlizzie13
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Re: UNC ($$$$) v. Notre Dame ($$) v. Fordham ($)

Postby queenlizzie13 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:58 pm

If you really have to have NY, I would probably retake. If not, I say UNC. Less debt...but you probably aren't going to get NYU or DC or CA from UNC.




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