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So I got into Drexel with almost a full scholarship (I would have to pay about $1000 a year) and am considering going there because the prospect of having no loans is very tempting. I also have the option of Rutgers-Newark (15K a year) and George Mason (Full). I am still waiting on William and Mary, Rutgers Camden, Seton Hall, and a few others but I am not expecting any of their scholarship amounts to equal the ones above. My main question is.. What do people think about Drexel? With the money involved, how does it compare to Rutgers-Newark? Thanks

The general TLS consensus is that as a new school, Drexel is a bit of a wildcard with a meager alumni network in Philly (where it counts, because the school has no national reach). A lot of people here will urge you not to go (plus, it's unranked, for whatever that's worth), and they may be right, and they may be wrong. If you want to work in the Philly/Jersey region, you're likely better off going to one of the more established schools in the area. But I understand the allure of free rent, and the big firms in the area do indeed conduct OCI at Drexel. From a perspective of principle, I would urge you not to go just because I don't believe in supporting an institution that contributes to the glut of lawyers.

I would venture to say that when legal services are currently going for anywhere from $200 to $800 per hour, there is no "glut" of lawyers. Perhaps a "glut" of lawyers who want to work in large firms handling corporate litigation and transactional work. Perhaps a "glut" of lawyers who think a high-paying salaried job should be handed to them upon graduation regardless of their practical ability (or lack thereof). There is, however, no general "glut" of lawyers in our incredibly litigious society. Now if Americans somehow decided to stop prosecuting and suing every person and entity in sight, then we might be able to slash the number of law schools and send a bunch of lawyers to work at Burger King.

To the OP: the president of the Philadelphia Bar Association came to speak at our Diversity Reception last week and he was extremely supportive of Drexel. I have heard nothing but good things from the Philadelphia legal community regarding our school. Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience. Drexel is a solid national research university with very strong engineering and medicine departments. They have put a huge amount of resources into building their law school. This is not some fly-by-night for-profit standalone law school that is destined for the bottom of the barrel.

Drexel is unranked because USNews does not rank new schools until they have a certain number of years of data to draw from. I am at Drexel and I got the almost-full scholarship. I don't regret my decision one bit. The administration and the other students are great and I am getting a superb education. The best part is I will graduate with no debt.

tarp wrote:I would venture to say that when legal services are currently going for anywhere from $200 to $800 per hour, there is no "glut" of lawyers. Perhaps a "glut" of lawyers who want to work in large firms handling corporate litigation and transactional work. Perhaps a "glut" of lawyers who think a high-paying salaried job should be handed to them upon graduation regardless of their practical ability (or lack thereof). There is, however, no general "glut" of lawyers in our incredibly litigious society. Now if Americans somehow decided to stop prosecuting and suing every person and entity in sight, then we might be able to slash the number of law schools and send a bunch of lawyers to work at Burger King.

To the OP: the president of the Philadelphia Bar Association came to speak at our Diversity Reception last week and he was extremely supportive of Drexel. I have heard nothing but good things from the Philadelphia legal community regarding our school. Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience. Drexel is a solid national research university with very strong engineering and medicine departments. They have put a huge amount of resources into building their law school. This is not some fly-by-night for-profit standalone law school that is destined for the bottom of the barrel.

Drexel is unranked because USNews does not rank new schools until they have a certain number of years of data to draw from. I am at Drexel and I got the almost-full scholarship. I don't regret my decision one bit. The administration and the other students are great and I am getting a superb education. The best part is I will graduate with no debt.

Totally fair. Drexel is absolutely just as big of a piece of shit as all of the rest of the schools op is choosing between. Congrats on getting in on the ground level of a true diploma mill. It takes a real sack (as an institution), to open a law school in the north east with the economy in ruins.

Lastly, what was the diversity fair all about? I assume it had to be a celebration for students with jobs, cause frankly, that should be the biggest minority group on your campus.

RM out. And remember kids: Friends dont let friends go to diploma mills in saturated legal markets.

tarp wrote:I would venture to say that when legal services are currently going for anywhere from $200 to $800 per hour, there is no "glut" of lawyers.

I wasn't going to say anything negative about Drexel, but if this is the type of reasoning they teach there, maybe I need to reconsider. Whether the most successful lawyers can charge $200-800 per hour has shit to do with whether the profession is oversaturated. That's like saying that because the best baseball players make $20-$30 million a year, there must not be any overabundance of baseball players trying to make it pro, when in fact there are probably ten thousand talented kids who want to play pro ball for every one who ever will. Sure, some of them might end up in an over-30 league one day that you have to pay to play in, so there must not be a "glut" since those leagues have some spots open... which unfortunately is fairly analagous to the job prospects of many recently minted JDs.

arvcondor wrote:The general TLS consensus is that as a new school, Drexel is a bit of a wildcard with a meager alumni network in Philly (where it counts, because the school has no national reach). A lot of people here will behoove you not to go (plus, it's unranked, for whatever that's worth), and they may be right, and they may be wrong. If you want to work in the Philly/Jersey region, you're likely better off going to one of the more established schools in the area. But I understand the allure of free rent, and the big firms in the area do indeed conduct OCI at Drexel. From a perspective of principle, I would urge you not to go just because I don't believe in supporting an institution that contributes to the glut of lawyers.

A good post overall, but:

bjsesq wrote:

arvcondor wrote:The general TLS consensus is that as a new school, Drexel is a bit of a wildcard with a meager alumni network in Philly (where it counts, because the school has no national reach). A lot of people here will behoove you not to go (plus, it's unranked, for whatever that's worth), and they may be right, and they may be wrong. If you want to work in the Philly/Jersey region, you're likely better off going to one of the more established schools in the area. But I understand the allure of free rent, and the big firms in the area do indeed conduct OCI at Drexel. From a perspective of principle, I would urge you not to go just because I don't believe in supporting an institution that contributes to the glut of lawyers.

A good post overall, but:

It's mistakes like this that make me question my overall ability to live.

Even though it's already immortalized in your response, I'm editing my idiocy.

As for wholigan's response to tarp:

Whether the most successful lawyers can charge $200-800 per hour has shit to do with whether the profession is oversaturated. That's like saying that because the best baseball players make $20-$30 million a year, there must not be any overabundance of baseball players trying to make it pro

My thinking exactly. Philly is already faced with about a thousand newly minted JDs every year vying for far less jobs than that. The fact that the lawyers who make it can charge a small fortune in no way indicates a balanced market. Your argument assumes that every JD actually has an opportunity to offer his/her services in the same capacity as the ones who charge that amount of money, which would mean that they call get hired by biglaw/boutique firms. That is clearly not the case.

Have you ever hired a lawyer? Trust me, it is not just "biglaw/boutique firms" that charge over $200 an hour. Just try calling a family lawyer or a tax lawyer and ask their hourly rate. Solos and small firms included.

The only types of work small firms and solos can always get away with consistently charging $200+ an hour for is for criminal defense and people that are in trouble with the IRS, since they pretty much have you by the balls in those cases. Almost everything else is handled on a per-diem or contingency basis when you are dealing with individuals. I will give you that some seasoned solos who have as clients small businesses and well-off individuals may be able to charge $200-$300 an hour for other work, but I would assert that no one, anywhere, is going to pay north of $200/hour for the work product of any lawyer less than five years out of law school. Hell, giant corporate clients don't even want to pay that much anymore for biglaw junior associates. I'm not saying being a solo or starting out working for one can't be a good career, but the problem is the debt. Even with "only" $60k in cost of living loans to go to Drexel or a comparable school, I think it would only be fair to warn people that they will probably be living on a shoestring budget for quite a while if that is the route they want to go.

Oh, and if you still really don't think there is a glut, why don't you pick up the Philly yellow pages and start flipping through and tell us how many small firms and solos you find? I'll check back in a couple days and see if you've finished yet.

reasonable_man wrote: Lastly, what was the diversity fair all about? I assume it had to be a celebration for students with jobs, cause frankly, that should be the biggest minority group on your campus.

I lol'd, Drexel threads are always entertaining.

ITE, an alumni base is a wonderful thing.

tarp wrote:Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience.

This is because those firms are particularly interested in getting free labor with no expectation of permanent employment, instead of having to hire 2L/3Ls at $10/hour for work during the school year.

Wholigan wrote:

tarp wrote:Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience.

This is because those firms are particularly interested in getting free labor with no expectation of permanent employment, instead of having to hire 2L/3Ls at $10/hour for work during the school year.

This co-op mess is hysterical. Yet another way for law students to be exploited and made to work for free. But in this context, its actually required by the school. Lets everyone thank Drexel for helping in yet another way to drive down the wages of legal employees. I mean, its not bad enough they are sending out even more graduates into a market that cannot support the grads that are there already. The school also has a policy that is driving down the wage law students can hope to earn while in school before they graduate. New marketing material should read: Drexel U, school of law.. fucking students and young attorneys in the ass right from day one...

reasonable_man wrote:

Wholigan wrote:

tarp wrote:Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience.

This is because those firms are particularly interested in getting free labor with no expectation of permanent employment, instead of having to hire 2L/3Ls at $10/hour for work during the school year.

This co-op mess is hysterical. Yet another way for law students to be exploited and made to work for free. But in this context, its actually required by the school. Lets everyone thank Drexel for helping in yet another way to drive down the wages of legal employees. I mean, its not bad enough they are sending out even more graduates into a market that cannot support the grads that are there already. The school also has a policy that is driving down the wage law students can hope to earn while in school before they graduate. New marketing material should read: Drexel U, school of law.. fucking students and young attorneys in the ass right from day one...

You're a bit more vulgar than usual, bad day?

I know that the engineering students in Drexel's co-op program are paid by their employers. I think that they still pay tuition while they are working in the co-op program because they get credit hours for the co-op work, so who knows if the engineering students clear any money from their co-op jobs. I know too that having the co-op experience helps these engineering grads find permanent jobs.

I don't know what the deal is with the law firms paying law students a salary.

OP: not having any debt, does that mean you won't need loans to live on in school? I think you can live cheaply in Philly, so graduating without loans is at least a positive thing for the school.

rose711 wrote:I know that the engineering students in Drexel's co-op program are paid by their employers. I think that they still pay tuition while they are working in the co-op program because they get credit hours for the co-op work, so who knows if the engineering students clear any money from their co-op jobs. I know too that having the co-op experience helps these engineering grads find permanent jobs.

I don't know what the deal is with the law firms paying law students a salary.

OP: not having any debt, does that mean you won't need loans to live on in school? I think you can live cheaply in Philly, so graduating without loans is at least a positive thing for the school.

I went to Drexel as a UG for one year before transferring out. The co-op wasn't for me, but that's another story. You do usually make about $20/hr while doing co-op as a UG. The reason the law students don't get a salary is that either the ABA or the AALS has a rule that you can't receive a salary for work you're also getting academic credit for.

Co-op is not required at Drexel Law, it is an option.

I chose to do the clinic instead.

Here is the simple flowchart for deciding whether Drexel is a great idea:

1. Do you have someone who will guarantee you a job if you graduate from Drexel? If yes, go there. If no, move to step 2.
2. Are you just bored, have no idea what to do in life and have rich parents who will cover the cost of attendance entirely? If so, go to Drexel. If no, move to question 3.
3. Do you find the aroma in the unemployment office soothing and are interested in spending many days, months and years there? If yes, go to Drexel.

beach_terror wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:

Wholigan wrote:

tarp wrote:Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience.

This is because those firms are particularly interested in getting free labor with no expectation of permanent employment, instead of having to hire 2L/3Ls at $10/hour for work during the school year.

This co-op mess is hysterical. Yet another way for law students to be exploited and made to work for free. But in this context, its actually required by the school. Lets everyone thank Drexel for helping in yet another way to drive down the wages of legal employees. I mean, its not bad enough they are sending out even more graduates into a market that cannot support the grads that are there already. The school also has a policy that is driving down the wage law students can hope to earn while in school before they graduate. New marketing material should read: Drexel U, school of law.. fucking students and young attorneys in the ass right from day one...

You're a bit more vulgar than usual, bad day?

Actually no. Just super busy, so i skipped right to vulgarity to get my point across..

Retake.

TLS is ridiculous. The people here aren't even law students let alone lawyers, and they have no knowledge of what law school entails. Rutgers and Drexel are both solid options. Go with one or the other. Don't pay full tuition for Mason.

tarp wrote:TLS is ridiculous. The people here aren't even law students let alone lawyers, and they have no knowledge of what law school entails. Rutgers and Drexel are both solid options. Go with one or the other. Don't pay full tuition for Mason.

reasonable_man is a practicing attorney, and TLS has a fuckton of current law students. usrsbro?

tarp wrote:TLS is ridiculous. The people here aren't even law students let alone lawyers, and they have no knowledge of what law school entails. Rutgers and Drexel are both solid options. Go with one or the other. Don't pay full tuition for Mason.

I'm a law student, and agree with much of the sentiment in this thread.

tarp wrote:TLS is ridiculous. The people here aren't even law students let alone lawyers, and they have no knowledge of what law school entails. Rutgers and Drexel are both solid options. Go with one or the other. Don't pay full tuition for Mason.

lolwut?

I, as well as hundreds on TLS are current law students.

tarp wrote:TLS is ridiculous. The people here aren't even law students let alone lawyers, and they have no knowledge of what law school entails. Rutgers and Drexel are both solid options. Go with one or the other. Don't pay full tuition for Mason.

Oh hey there Tarp. LMFAOROFLLOL

tarp wrote:I would venture to say that when legal services are currently going for anywhere from $200 to $800 per hour, there is no "glut" of lawyers. Perhaps a "glut" of lawyers who want to work in large firms handling corporate litigation and transactional work. Perhaps a "glut" of lawyers who think a high-paying salaried job should be handed to them upon graduation regardless of their practical ability (or lack thereof). There is, however, no general "glut" of lawyers in our incredibly litigious society. Now if Americans somehow decided to stop prosecuting and suing every person and entity in sight, then we might be able to slash the number of law schools and send a bunch of lawyers to work at Burger King.

To the OP: the president of the Philadelphia Bar Association came to speak at our Diversity Reception last week and he was extremely supportive of Drexel. I have heard nothing but good things from the Philadelphia legal community regarding our school. Fellow students (I'm a 2L) have told me many of their interviewers spoke very highly of Drexel and were particularly interested in the co-op opportunities. They saw the co-op as a great way for law students to get practical experience. Drexel is a solid national research university with very strong engineering and medicine departments. They have put a huge amount of resources into building their law school. This is not some fly-by-night for-profit standalone law school that is destined for the bottom of the barrel.

Drexel is unranked because USNews does not rank new schools until they have a certain number of years of data to draw from. I am at Drexel and I got the almost-full scholarship. I don't regret my decision one bit. The administration and the other students are great and I am getting a superb education. The best part is I will graduate with no debt.

well no shit, do you think hes going to go speak at a school and bash it? of course not