Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

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Where to go for mid-law in LA

Hastings ($0)
5
9%
Loyola ($87k, contingent upon staying top 30%)
6
11%
Notre Dame ($0)
6
11%
USC ($0, hoping to get in, but my app is still pending)
36
68%
 
Total votes: 53

RedItalus10
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Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby RedItalus10 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:15 am

Hello all. My stats are to give reference for bargaining power. Also got 120k from IU-Bloomington which I will use for bargaining as well.

I know I want to work in LA. I'm pretty sure I DO NOT want big law. I want mid
There is a trend for tuition to go up every year. I'm particularly weary of Hastings going up.

Parents are going to pay for living arrangements, tuition is on me. I have no money saved.

What is your advice!? Thank you!
Last edited by RedItalus10 on Tue May 13, 2014 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lasers
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby Lasers » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:21 am

usc if you get in obviously, especially for LA.

the loyola stipulation scares me.

don't know how notre dame fares in LA; i hear you can get a job in LA from hastings, though.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:23 am

So you would lose all scholly if not in top 30% at Loyola? I voted Loyola, but given that stip I actually think USC is TCR. Even without the stip (come to think of it) I'd say it would prob be a toss up between USC at sticker and Loyola with $$ (depending on how debt averse you are).

I think your comparatively strong entrance numbers at Loyola will likely correlate to you ending up in the top 30%, but it is by no means certain, and that would be fairly horrifying to lose the scholly.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

RedItalus10
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby RedItalus10 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:26 am

Lawquacious wrote:So you would lose all scholly if not in top 30% at Loyola? I voted Loyola, but given that stip I actually think USC is TCR. Even without the stip (come to think of it) I'd say it would prob be a toss up between USC at sticker and Loyola with $$ (depending on how debt averse you are).


They award a $29,000 scholarship per year, but dependent upon being in the top 30% of the class in the previous year. You get the first year's $29,000 no matter what.

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby cornellbeez » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:24 am

None of the above? A contingent scholarship at Loyola sounds like a bad deal.

Also, fwiw, 1800 hours is no walk in the park either. (Some biglaw firms in the South, for example, require 1800 billables and it might be a soft cutoff.) Supposedly, you bill about 70% of what you work. You're going to be working almost as much someone in LA/NY biglaw, probably 1-2 hours less a day.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:11 am

USC is the pick here.

Otherwise, get the stipulation removed.

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arhmcpo
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby arhmcpo » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:50 pm

To have a decent chance at this dream-midlaw job you want, on this list, you need USC. Sure if your towards the top of your class at Loyola you can get it but that's a big "if". Its a big gamble either way, but you could go for Loyola, reduce your debt initially, and hope you meet the stipulation; that's your best option if USC doesn't work out for LA midlaw.

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General Tso
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby General Tso » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:59 pm

USC if you get in, Loyola if not.

Something like 5-10% of Hastings people are currently getting big firm offers through OCI (I am a Hastings 2L). Those odds do not justify the high sticker price.

You should negotiate for a higher scholarship offer from Loyola. I got a similar offer with a lower LSAT than yours. Also you should be prepared to drop out of Loyola if you lose your scholarship.

How do you define "midlaw" and why is that your goal? You should not attend any non-T14 law school if you are not comfortable with the prospect of working at a small firm. About half of T14 students are currently getting shut out of big and medium sized firms. At lower ranked schools..it is more like 75-90%.

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helloperson
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby helloperson » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:14 pm

I'm 171/3.3, in a similar position (though loyola lowballed the fuck out of me at 52k, so they're out).

Waiting on USC, have a $90k with top 1/3 stipulation offer from USD.

I would go to USC or UCLA at sticker.

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby crit_racer » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:42 pm

helloperson wrote:I'm 171/3.3, in a similar position (though loyola lowballed the fuck out of me at 52k, so they're out).

Waiting on USC, have a $90k with top 1/3 stipulation offer from USD.

I would go to USC or UCLA at sticker.


negotiate that loyola scholly. I have same GPA and lower LSAT and got 69k...really dont know why they wouldn't give you the 69 or even 87. I was even thinking about trying to negotiate my loyola scholly. Doesn't seem like they will remove the top 30% stip, so getting more is really the only option.

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tallboone
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby tallboone » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:00 pm

Did you apply to UCI? You would have been a good candidate....

RedItalus10
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby RedItalus10 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:31 pm

General Tso wrote:USC if you get in, Loyola if not.

Something like 5-10% of Hastings people are currently getting big firm offers through OCI (I am a Hastings 2L). Those odds do not justify the high sticker price.

You should negotiate for a higher scholarship offer from Loyola. I got a similar offer with a lower LSAT than yours. Also you should be prepared to drop out of Loyola if you lose your scholarship.

How do you define "midlaw" and why is that your goal? You should not attend any non-T14 law school if you are not comfortable with the prospect of working at a small firm. About half of T14 students are currently getting shut out of big and medium sized firms. At lower ranked schools..it is more like 75-90%.


How do you like Hastings? Does it place well in mid/small law in LA? Not sure what my definition is, but I don't want to work 80 hrs per week, even if they pay a lot of money. I want a good balance between work and life outside of work. I know I'm gonna have to work long hours and work hard no matter what, especially at the beginning, but I'm willing to take a pay cut for hands on work (I don't want to just do someone else's research) and for a good work/life balance. My goal starting salary is somewhere around 100k, with the intention of having those aforementioned perks (hands on work, not crazy hours i.e. 65-80 per week).

RedItalus10
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby RedItalus10 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:35 pm

Basically I don't want to be a slave to my job and then have my debt imprison me there further. Ive heard/read about the horror stories. I want a family and kids and more pertinently, time spent with them.

I'm happy about the 87k at loyola hearing the others above. I applied early there, perhaps that had something to do with it (mid november). I havent heard of anyone successfully negotiating away the 30% stipulation though.
Last edited by RedItalus10 on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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General Tso
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby General Tso » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:57 am

RedItalus10 wrote:How do you like Hastings? Does it place well in mid/small law in LA? Not sure what my definition is, but I don't want to work 80 hrs per week, even if they pay a lot of money. I want a good balance between work and life outside of work. I know I'm gonna have to work long hours and work hard no matter what, especially at the beginning, but I'm willing to take a pay cut for hands on work (I don't want to just do someone else's research) and for a good work/life balance. My goal starting salary is somewhere around 100k, with the intention of having those aforementioned perks (hands on work, not crazy hours i.e. 65-80 per week).


I like Hastings, but my impression is that very few of my classmates are getting 100k+ offers right out of the gate. I think if you need a 100k job, you should attend USC or ND and study your ass off. Even there it is probably like a 30-40% chance.

Most big and medium firms will expect you to work 50-60 hours per week. At my small firm last summer, everybody was gone by 4:45.

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arhmcpo
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby arhmcpo » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:06 am

^^^ Listen to the General. 100k ITE is a pretty rosy salary... that most T30 students are not getting. Seeing as how USC is the only "top" school on your list you would want to focus your efforts there if 6 figures is key. That being said I would bet its a relatively small minority of USC students who are graduating with salaries of 100k or more. And with the kind of debt you would take on going to USC... well lets just say maybe you should shift your calculations to a lower paying job initially and coming out of a school with much less debt i.e. less debt = less salary necessary to have the kind of lifestyle you want.

RedItalus10
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby RedItalus10 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:48 am

General Tso wrote:
RedItalus10 wrote:How do you like Hastings? Does it place well in mid/small law in LA? Not sure what my definition is, but I don't want to work 80 hrs per week, even if they pay a lot of money. I want a good balance between work and life outside of work. I know I'm gonna have to work long hours and work hard no matter what, especially at the beginning, but I'm willing to take a pay cut for hands on work (I don't want to just do someone else's research) and for a good work/life balance. My goal starting salary is somewhere around 100k, with the intention of having those aforementioned perks (hands on work, not crazy hours i.e. 65-80 per week).


I like Hastings, but my impression is that very few of my classmates are getting 100k+ offers right out of the gate. I think if you need a 100k job, you should attend USC or ND and study your ass off. Even there it is probably like a 30-40% chance.

Most big and medium firms will expect you to work 50-60 hours per week. At my small firm last summer, everybody was gone by 4:45.


The Hastings website shows the employment data of the most recent class and it says that that avg income is somewhere around 125k. Are they fooling us? Most are making a lot less? Maybe this speaks to the theory that says 60%-70% of the people make 70k-80k and 30%-40% make 140k-160k, which makes the avg somewhere around 120k?

How is the classroom vibe/experience at hastings? ive heard its not as cut throat as people think

RedItalus10
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby RedItalus10 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:51 am

arhmcpo wrote:^^^ Listen to the General. 100k ITE is a pretty rosy salary... that most T30 students are not getting. Seeing as how USC is the only "top" school on your list you would want to focus your efforts there if 6 figures is key. That being said I would bet its a relatively small minority of USC students who are graduating with salaries of 100k or more. And with the kind of debt you would take on going to USC... well lets just say maybe you should shift your calculations to a lower paying job initially and coming out of a school with much less debt i.e. less debt = less salary necessary to have the kind of lifestyle you want.


I see you took pepperdine$$$$ over loyola$$/davis/hastings? What led you to that decision? Are you happy? It must be nice to not have much debt. Do you think your job prospects are diminished because of pepperdine vs. hastings or davis?

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby General Tso » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:58 am

RedItalus10 wrote:The Hastings website shows the employment data of the most recent class and it says that that avg income is somewhere around 125k. Are they fooling us? Most are making a lot less? Maybe this speaks to the theory that says 60%-70% of the people make 70k-80k and 30%-40% make 140k-160k, which makes the avg somewhere around 120k?

How is the classroom vibe/experience at hastings? ive heard its not as cut throat as people think


Yeah it is something like that, except that only about half the graduating class reports salary. So it is more like 15-20% make 140-160, 30-35% make 70-80. This data is probably from 2008 or 2009 and I think things are at least as bad if not worse now. Top 33% at Hastings used to have really good prospects. But I have talked to many top 15-20% people who didnt get anything at OCI. And they all say they only know of a handful of people who got anything.

I personally was top 25% and got 18 interviews, 1 callback and no offers.

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Zabini
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby Zabini » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:34 am

edit: disregard that

edit: as for the original question, go to USC. I guess you could go to Loyola with the intention of dropping out if you're below top 30% after the first year...but that seems wasteful and silly. Give yourself the best possible shot imo
Last edited by Zabini on Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:43 am

USC though I'm not sure you'll get in. Otherwise probably Hastings.

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:45 am

Zabini wrote:Shit, I know a Hastings grad who was (supposedly) well above median before ITE (04 grad I think) who aimed at big/midlaw and the best work she could find was SF public defender's office. She's moved into a firm now and is making what I assume to be a decent wage, but I really would not count on getting any kind of significant salary coming out of Hastings

edit: as for the original question, go to USC. I guess you could go to Loyola with the intention of dropping out if you're below top 30% after the first year...but that seems wasteful and silly. Give yourself the best possible shot imo

SF PD is an awesome job, and it pays better than a lot of small/mid-sized firms.

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby Zabini » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:56 am

SBL wrote:
Zabini wrote:Shit, I know a Hastings grad who was (supposedly) well above median before ITE (04 grad I think) who aimed at big/midlaw and the best work she could find was SF public defender's office. She's moved into a firm now and is making what I assume to be a decent wage, but I really would not count on getting any kind of significant salary coming out of Hastings

edit: as for the original question, go to USC. I guess you could go to Loyola with the intention of dropping out if you're below top 30% after the first year...but that seems wasteful and silly. Give yourself the best possible shot imo

SF PD is an awesome job, and it pays better than a lot of small/mid-sized firms.
Really? She made it sound like the absolute pits

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20160810
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:00 am

Zabini wrote:
SBL wrote:
Zabini wrote:Shit, I know a Hastings grad who was (supposedly) well above median before ITE (04 grad I think) who aimed at big/midlaw and the best work she could find was SF public defender's office. She's moved into a firm now and is making what I assume to be a decent wage, but I really would not count on getting any kind of significant salary coming out of Hastings

edit: as for the original question, go to USC. I guess you could go to Loyola with the intention of dropping out if you're below top 30% after the first year...but that seems wasteful and silly. Give yourself the best possible shot imo

SF PD is an awesome job, and it pays better than a lot of small/mid-sized firms.
Really? She made it sound like the absolute pits

I mean, if you don't want to do PD work, then it might suck, but it is one of the highest-paying (if not the highest) PD offices in the US (currently starts at $92,000 IIRC) and jobs are incredible hard to get. HYS students shoot for positions there routinely.

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Zabini
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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby Zabini » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:16 am

SBL wrote:
Zabini wrote:
SBL wrote:
Zabini wrote:Shit, I know a Hastings grad who was (supposedly) well above median before ITE (04 grad I think) who aimed at big/midlaw and the best work she could find was SF public defender's office. She's moved into a firm now and is making what I assume to be a decent wage, but I really would not count on getting any kind of significant salary coming out of Hastings

edit: as for the original question, go to USC. I guess you could go to Loyola with the intention of dropping out if you're below top 30% after the first year...but that seems wasteful and silly. Give yourself the best possible shot imo

SF PD is an awesome job, and it pays better than a lot of small/mid-sized firms.
Really? She made it sound like the absolute pits

I mean, if you don't want to do PD work, then it might suck, but it is one of the highest-paying (if not the highest) PD offices in the US (currently starts at $92,000 IIRC) and jobs are incredible hard to get. HYS students shoot for positions there routinely.


I must have misheard what city she was PDing in then, because she was def talking about a ~50kish salary. My mistake.

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Re: Hstgs vs. Loyla (87k) vs. ND vs. USC for Mid Law in LA

Postby Rule11 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:52 am

Can you give an example of a "midlaw" firm in LA (or elsewhere) that you think would provide the type of work environment/pay scale you describe?




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