BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

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TheSteelKid
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BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:34 pm

So I'm looking at big scholly's at WUSTL and Illinois, what do you guys think the prospects are like there for working at a BigLaw firm? Definitely want to get paid well after Law School!

I have a 170 (Dec. LSAT) and a 3.25 (the LSAC recalculated from a 3.32). Ive been waitlisted at Michigan, UVA, Northwestern, Vanderbilt... Still waiting to hear from Georgetown, Cornell, UCLA, USC, Duke, BU, BC, Fordham....

Been accepted to GW with no money :( :( :(

I am seriously considering deferring until 2012 and taking the LSAT for a 4th time in June with waivers from schools.

I'm from Pittsburgh so I have no fear of the Midwest but I want to "guarantee" myself a good job.

What doest thou think? I suppose if I wait a year and don't improve SUBSTANTIALLY on the LSAT (atleast 3 points), then I'm not really looking at money from T-15 schools anyway by applying early. SO the decision comes down to sticker at T-14 or money from WUSTL vs. Illinois.

Also, do you think I would get money at GW by applying earlier next cycle?

THANKS GUYS THIS STUFF IS STRESSFUL!

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:21 pm

Any thoughts or ideas from the reservoir of intelligent TLS people?

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RockyIII
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby RockyIII » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:27 pm

For someone in your situation, retake is probably not worth it. How debt adverse are you?

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:59 pm

Ya I don't particularly want to retake...and I don't have any existing debt so that "helps" me be a little less debt-averse.

The thing is, as I've written above , Wash U is the highest ranked school I've gotten into so far. Nothing above that. So, if I continue to strike out I'll be faced with the decision to wait until next year and ED somewhere like Northwestern or UVA.... arghhhh.......AND THEN if I wait it seems like I might as WELL take the June LSAT just because I'll have the time to do it.....but at the same time if I were to really want to perform well on the June LSAT I'd be studying right now, which I'm not doing currently b/c I haven't heard back from all my schools and hence haven't made the decision yet! ARGHHHHHH

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blurbz
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby blurbz » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:01 pm

I'm a 1L at Illinois and I have biglaw callbacks for this summer. Nothing set in stone, but I'm happy to have the opportunities that I do.

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:06 pm

This makes me happy :D , very happy! :D :D

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Law Sauce
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby Law Sauce » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:20 am

Wustl and illinois with scholly are still great options, your lsat already is solid, not that much to be gained by a retake and you cant know if youd do much better even with a little better score. Youll stil have tons of great opportunities from either school and probably 1 out of 4 chance of biglaw. better than your chances at retaking/having a better cycle

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:59 am

Law Sauce wrote:Wustl and illinois with scholly are still great options, your lsat already is solid, not that much to be gained by a retake and you cant know if youd do much better even with a little better score. Youll stil have tons of great opportunities from either school and probably 1 out of 4 chance of biglaw. better than your chances at retaking/having a better cycle


I feel like I'm going to have regrets no matter which way I go...but am definitely leaning towards starting school this fall because that's what I want to do. At some point you have to make the decision and just move forward from there..hopefully for the best.

CanadianWolf
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:02 am

I agree with the above posters, especially Rocky III, who focus on your degree of aversion to debt & the likelihood that retaking the LSAT is unlikely to change your target schools. That being said, did you apply late in the application cycle to the four law schools that waitlisted you ? Waiting a year & reapplying may result in much higher ranked options such as Virginia, Michigan & Northwestern. My best suggestion, if you do not fear debt from a Top 14 law school, is to take a year off & work, then reapply early in the cycle. Retaking the LSAT will not improve your GPA & it is unlikely to make you a strong candidate for a Top 5 law school.

However, if you are debt averse, then take one of the two offered large scholarships.

In short, a law degree from Michigan, Northwestern or Virginia should greatly enhance your career options & is worth the wait, in my opinion.

bball25
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby bball25 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:21 am

blurbz wrote:I'm a 1L at Illinois and I have biglaw callbacks for this summer. Nothing set in stone, but I'm happy to have the opportunities that I do.


Would you be willing to share you GPA or class rank through a PM; I would completely understand if you didn't want to. Im really considering Illinois and I am curious how well your doing to have an excellent opportunity like this.

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Patriot1208
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:23 pm

If you want to guarantee yourself a big law job, you shouldn't go to any law school that will let you in with that GPA. For these schools you will have to be top third to have any shot whatsoever and top ten percent to guarantee it.

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blurbz
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby blurbz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:25 pm

bball25 wrote:
blurbz wrote:I'm a 1L at Illinois and I have biglaw callbacks for this summer. Nothing set in stone, but I'm happy to have the opportunities that I do.


Would you be willing to share you GPA or class rank through a PM; I would completely understand if you didn't want to. Im really considering Illinois and I am curious how well your doing to have an excellent opportunity like this.


PMed.

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LSATWIZ
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby LSATWIZ » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:06 pm

With the 3.25 you will always be out of the top 10 unless schools are just so blown away by your LSAT score. Depending on what exactly you want, a retake can be a great option but even if you came back with a 175+, your best bet would probably be UPENN ED in terms of where you could get in, which is a great option.

Depending on what you're doing now, WUSTL with $ might be a stronger option. You aren't going to starve coming out of WUSTL, and is 1 additional year in the field worth going to a worse but not by any means bad school than you might be able to get into in a year from now? It would all depend on what you're making now, and how you're supporting yourself.

If you have a a cushioney paralegal job where you're making 45-55k and you're moderately happy, I'd say retake because in those t-14's you're speaking of, a 170 is at median or just a point over and your GPA is way below. I'd say the further ahead your LSAT is, the less egregious your GPA will look.

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romothesavior
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:46 pm

How much money are you getting at WUSTL/UIUC?

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romothesavior
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:48 pm

bball25 wrote:
blurbz wrote:I'm a 1L at Illinois and I have biglaw callbacks for this summer. Nothing set in stone, but I'm happy to have the opportunities that I do.


Would you be willing to share you GPA or class rank through a PM; I would completely understand if you didn't want to. Im really considering Illinois and I am curious how well your doing to have an excellent opportunity like this.

You need to realize that blurbz experience is NOT standard. I only know one non-URM at WUSTL with a 1L SA. Getting a 1L SA is incredibly difficult (almost impossible for the vast majority of students), and you shouldn't base your decision on one anecdote.

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blurbz
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby blurbz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:23 pm

romothesavior wrote:
bball25 wrote:
blurbz wrote:I'm a 1L at Illinois and I have biglaw callbacks for this summer. Nothing set in stone, but I'm happy to have the opportunities that I do.


Would you be willing to share you GPA or class rank through a PM; I would completely understand if you didn't want to. Im really considering Illinois and I am curious how well your doing to have an excellent opportunity like this.

You need to realize that blurbz experience is NOT standard. I only know one non-URM at WUSTL with a 1L SA. Getting a 1L SA is incredibly difficult (almost impossible for the vast majority of students), and you shouldn't base your decision on one anecdote.


I definitely agree that it's not the norm. For what it's worth, I also have over 100 rejection letters (as do all of my friends!). Also: I don't have a job yet! Just CBs. I don't want to give the impression that I've landed something big when I haven't yet!

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:27 pm

LSATWIZ wrote:With the 3.25 you will always be out of the top 10 unless schools are just so blown away by your LSAT score. Depending on what exactly you want, a retake can be a great option but even if you came back with a 175+, your best bet would probably be UPENN ED in terms of where you could get in, which is a great option.

Depending on what you're doing now, WUSTL with $ might be a stronger option. You aren't going to starve coming out of WUSTL, and is 1 additional year in the field worth going to a worse but not by any means bad school than you might be able to get into in a year from now? It would all depend on what you're making now, and how you're supporting yourself.

If you have a a cushioney paralegal job where you're making 45-55k and you're moderately happy, I'd say retake because in those t-14's you're speaking of, a 170 is at median or just a point over and your GPA is way below. I'd say the further ahead your LSAT is, the less egregious your GPA will look.



There are some good points here, I've realized that my low GPA is holding me back more than
I thought it would. I do have a highly Ascending GPA, as I kind of bombed my first two years and then got a 3.67 and a 3.9 my last two years.

As I've hinted at before the competitor in me wants to retake the LSAT in June and try for a better school and try to improve my scholarship offers as well.

Being that I took the December LSAT, I know that applying earlier will help me in the next admissions cycle.

As for having a "cushioney" job, that is not the case and I am looking for a job as we speak...

If I can still get into Gtown/Cornell this cycle I'd feel pretty confident in my options but I don't know if its happening

09042014
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:34 pm

romothesavior wrote:
bball25 wrote:
blurbz wrote:I'm a 1L at Illinois and I have biglaw callbacks for this summer. Nothing set in stone, but I'm happy to have the opportunities that I do.


Would you be willing to share you GPA or class rank through a PM; I would completely understand if you didn't want to. Im really considering Illinois and I am curious how well your doing to have an excellent opportunity like this.

You need to realize that blurbz experience is NOT standard. I only know one non-URM at WUSTL with a 1L SA. Getting a 1L SA is incredibly difficult (almost impossible for the vast majority of students), and you shouldn't base your decision on one anecdote.


1L SA's are pretty damn rare anywhere.

2L OCI hiring is vastly more important.

kams
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby kams » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:36 pm

I think WUSTL and Illinois are solid regional schools, and there are worse things than going on a huge scholly to one of them. On the other hand, for schools of their rank, they seem to underperform on the biglaw market. Probably need to be about top 20% to get the interviews? And then kick ass in the interviews? This is just a guess on my part, but I do know some people at both schools who got burned by the economy.

For what it's worth, I got about $90,000 from WUSTL, didn't apply to UI, but took $75,000 from BU and I couldn't be happier.

09042014
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby 09042014 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:50 pm

kams wrote:I think WUSTL and Illinois are solid regional schools, and there are worse things than going on a huge scholly to one of them. On the other hand, for schools of their rank, they seem to underperform on the biglaw market. Probably need to be about top 20% to get the interviews? And then kick ass in the interviews? This is just a guess on my part, but I do know some people at both schools who got burned by the economy.

For what it's worth, I got about $90,000 from WUSTL, didn't apply to UI, but took $75,000 from BU and I couldn't be happier.


Both schools rely on Chicago big law firms. Before ITE that made these schools great regional options. The number of Summer Associates in 2010 (256) was only 31% of what it was in 2008. 2011 will be better, but not hugely. Nobody knows what 2012 will look like.

Anyone applying now will be 2013 SA's. Going to these schools is a pretty large gamble that Chicago will be back to normal by then.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:53 pm

TheSteelKid wrote:Definitely want to get paid well after Law School!


cool story, bro

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romothesavior
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Again, how much scholarship money are we talking about here?

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:34 pm

Ive gotten 84000 to Wash U and 90000 to Illinois

TheSteelKid
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby TheSteelKid » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:42 pm

scholarship money is tough to walk away from...but walking away from better schools or a chance at better school is also tough

RicketyCricket
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Re: BigLaw at WUSTL or Illinois? Should this kid Defer?

Postby RicketyCricket » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:13 am

Desert Fox wrote:
kams wrote:I think WUSTL and Illinois are solid regional schools, and there are worse things than going on a huge scholly to one of them. On the other hand, for schools of their rank, they seem to underperform on the biglaw market. Probably need to be about top 20% to get the interviews? And then kick ass in the interviews? This is just a guess on my part, but I do know some people at both schools who got burned by the economy.

For what it's worth, I got about $90,000 from WUSTL, didn't apply to UI, but took $75,000 from BU and I couldn't be happier.


Both schools rely on Chicago big law firms. Before ITE that made these schools great regional options. The number of Summer Associates in 2010 (256) was only 31% of what it was in 2008. 2011 will be better, but not hugely. Nobody knows what 2012 will look like.

Anyone applying now will be 2013 SA's. Going to these schools is a pretty large gamble that Chicago will be back to normal by then.

FWIW (nothing), I talked to a partner on the hiring committee at Sidley Austin in Chicago at a school function last week and he said they were back to pre-ITE hiring practices.




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