Boston University vs Davis vs Emory vs UGA Forum

[pelkin000]

***UPDATE Mar 18, 2011***
I was just recently accepted to UC Davis. I haven't heard yet about financial aid. I'm a splitter with GPA 3.4 and LSAT 167. I'm curious what sort of financial aid I can expect from BU and Davis. I'm also curious if people have any new thoughts since both Emory and UGA each got bumped 8 places off the rankings.
***

***UPDATE Mar 20, 2011***
Just hear back from BU, they gave me a $45k scholarship (same as Emory) to be split over the 3 years
***


So my situation is this. I've been accepted to BU (Fin. Aid TBD **EDIT**:$45k over 3 years***), Emory ($45,000 over 3 yrs) and UGA ($9,000 first year only **EDIT**: after a quick phone call, i got this bumped up to about $16,000***) and I'm still waiting on other reach schools but I'm expecting to be waitlisted. As far as I can tell, the decision should be between BU and Emory (though Im open to suggestions otherwise).

I've been doing some scouring of these forums and have found info about each school independently, but not as much about trying to make a decision between them. I was hoping someone may be able to give me a bit of a break down on the merits of each.

For now, my primary considerations are:

-Location/City: I have plans to visit both cities for preview day and that'll probably clear up a lot of questions, but in general what is the feel of each, the demeanor of the people, etc?

-Attitude of the school/students: I've heard Emory can be cutthroat. Can anyone shed light on this? As for BU, this post http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=140358 suggests the faculty is pretty chill. And this http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=107654 makes me think the students aren't particularly over zealous. Anyone have direct knowledge?

-Job Prospects: There seems to be a lot of conflicting information in this realm. I realize that both of these schools are mainly regional and I don't have a problem with that. But how do people fair after graduation relative to their student loans? I hear those 6 figure jobs aren't so easy to come by as those charts on the law school websites make it seem...

And finally, if BU doesn't offer me much (or any) money, would Emory become a natural choice because of the 45k? How would you make the decision between these schools given the financial incentive (I'll be taking out loans for whatever I don't get a scholarship for).

Thanks in advance for all your input!!!

[CanadianWolf]

At which law schools are you waitlisted ?

[bk1]

Going into 6 figure debt at any of these schools is very questionable.

You should decide between these schools based on where you want to work as I highly doubt that you don't have a preference for either the northeast or the south.

[Aberzombie1892]

I agree with the above poster that you should try to keep your debt under $100,000.

However, if you eventually decide that it comes down to BU and Emory (which it seems like it will), go to whichever is the cheapest. Note that Emory is not worth more than $100,000 of debt and neither is BU.

[pelkin000]

Thanks for the responses so far!

As for a preference between the two areas, its tough to say right now. There are aspects of both that I think I would like, which is why I haven't been able to narrow it down based solely on that aspect. I've actually never visited the south, but I'm planning on fixing that sometime early April (before the first deposit).

Responses from schools:
Pending - U of Virginia (long shot)
Pending - Vanderbilt (long shot)
Pending - UC Davis
Pending - USC
Pending - Washington - Missouri
Pending - Cornell (long shot)
Accepted - Emory (45k)
Accepted - Boston U (TBA)
Accepted - U of Georgia (9k)
Accepted - Indiana--Bloominton (TBA)
Accepted - Washington and Lee (10k * 3 if good standing)
Accepted - Loyola-Chicago (16k * 3 if good standing)
Accepted - Chicago-Kent ITT (20k * 3 if good standing)
Waitlisted - Boston College
Waitlisted - Notre Dame


Hope that helps give a better picture of my situation. thanks!

[bk1]

Your CoA would be about 120-130k150-160k (Emory), 100k (UGA, due to in-state your 2nd/3rd years), 175k (BU).

I'd take UGA in this situation from a financial perspective. I don't see any of your other offers being better than UGA unless you get a hail mary (unlikely) such as UVa.

ETA: I'm bad at math.

[Aberzombie1892]

Your CoA would be about 120-130k (Emory), 100k (UGA, due to in-state your 2nd/3rd years), 175k (BU).

I'd take UGA in this situation from a financial perspective. I don't see any of your other offers being better than UGA unless you get a hail mary (unlikely) such as UVa.

If this is accurate, I would say Emory is worth the extra $20,000 over UGA. Most of that value is in the fact that Emory is actually in Atlanta, it's far and away the best school in Atlanta, and the OP can intern during the academic year somewhere.

Note, however, that I'm still not advocating $100,000 of debt.

[bk1]

Your CoA would be about 120-130k (Emory), 100k (UGA, due to in-state your 2nd/3rd years), 175k (BU).

I'd take UGA in this situation from a financial perspective. I don't see any of your other offers being better than UGA unless you get a hail mary (unlikely) such as UVa.

If this is accurate, I would say Emory is worth the extra $20,000. Most of that value is in the fact that Emory is actually in Atlanta, it's far and away the best school in Atlanta, and the OP can intern during the academic year somewhere.

Note, however, that I'm still not advocating $100,000 of debt.

I actually realized I messed up the CoA estimate, Emory should be more like 150-160k.

Emory estimates CoA at 68k/year (which seemed really high to me considering BU's estimate is 58k/year... Emory estimated 5k more a year in living expenses compared to BU, that sounds wrong to me). So with 204k minus a 45k scholly puts it at 160k, and if you shave a bit off assuming that their CoL estimate is egregious you can probably do Emory for around 150k.

I don't think 100k is too bad. I mean it really sucks, but if you get a job that pays 40-50k starting it is feasible to pay off 100k in debt over 10 years.

[pelkin000]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I can see how much a problem 175k debt is going to be if I come out of law school without a 6 figure job. One of those student loan calculators pegs the monthly bill at about $1900/month. Ouch. At 100k, its about $1100/month. Still steep, but I hear there are ways to rearrange payments to make it all work, I guess I'll have to figure that part out.

On a side note, I hear it is possible to use the fact that you receieved scholarship money from a school of equal ranking as leverage to get help from another school. A quick google search {negotiating scholarship site:www.top-law-schools.com/forums} reveals:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 22&t=79373
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=105074
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =7&t=23096
Do you think now is good timing for sending an email to BU essentially negotiating scholarship money?

All that financial info considered, I'm still curious about the other aspects of the schools. Most importantly, what can I expect from the faculty/students. Is Emory more competitive like I hear (their law school actually has a FAQ response to this question, which is worrisome)? I'll definitely be talking to the students when I go visit to get a sense, but any un-biased info here would be great.

Thanks in advance, I'll be scouring these forums trying to piece together some more answers in the meantime

[Gatriel]

Me, personally I'd go to Emory. But thats just me.

[krillas]

Emory is not cutthroat.

Decide what region you like, and go to school there. If you definitely know you want to be in GA, UGA is probably your best bet. If you want SE, but maybe not GA (Carolinas, FL, TN, etc), Emory is better. And if you prefer NE, BU is where it's at.

[pelkin000]

Emory is not cutthroat.

Good to know. I'm hearing this more and more, which makes me think whatever info I heard was either incorrect or more than likely outdated.

Me, personally I'd go to Emory. But thats just me.

Cool, any specific reasoning? I'd love to hear all perspectives, just to make sure I'm not missing any points.

On a side note, I hear it is possible to use the fact that you received scholarship money from a school of equal ranking as leverage to get help from another school.... Do you think now is good timing for sending an email to BU essentially negotiating scholarship money?

Just throwin that question back out there, any suggestions on timing for this sort of thing? Do I have more leverage before or after a deposit date?

[bk1]

Just throwin that question back out there, any suggestions on timing for this sort of thing? Do I have more leverage before or after a deposit date?

You have a better chance earlier. I'd say do it now (though hopefully others who have done it can actually give you advice) because the longer you wait the less money that these schools have to give out.

[forty-two]

I actually realized I messed up the CoA estimate, Emory should be more like 150-160k.

Emory estimates CoA at 68k/year (which seemed really high to me considering BU's estimate is 58k/year... Emory estimated 5k more a year in living expenses compared to BU, that sounds wrong to me). So with 204k minus a 45k scholly puts it at 160k, and if you shave a bit off assuming that their CoL estimate is egregious you can probably do Emory for around 150k.

I don't think 100k is too bad. I mean it really sucks, but if you get a job that pays 40-50k starting it is feasible to pay off 100k in debt over 10 years.

Emory's COA estimate is very high. The only people I know who need that much are people who live alone in one of the nicer places near campus. I share a pretty new and very nice two bedroom two bath apartment very close to campus, and I pay under $600 per month.

Also, I remember from BU's ASD last year that their COA estimate doesn't include a lot of things that Emory's does, like insurance. The financial aid people kept telling us how we could add more to our COA if we needed to. I think Emory just puts everything in there so we have it if we need it, but can take out less if we don't.

Edit: I don't know what the actual COA for BU is though. People might not need to add anything to the estimate in reality. I'm just relaying what I heard at the ASD.

[FalafelWaffle]

So my situation is this. I've been accepted to BU (Fin. Aid TBD), Emory ($45,000 over 3 yrs) and UGA ($9,000 first year only) and I'm still waiting on other reach schools but I'm expecting to be waitlisted. As far as I can tell, the decision should be between BU and Emory (though Im open to suggestions otherwise).

I've been doing some scouring of these forums and have found info about each school independently, but not as much about trying to make a decision between them. I was hoping someone may be able to give me a bit of a break down on the merits of each.

For now, my primary considerations are:

-Location/City: I have plans to visit both cities for preview day and that'll probably clear up a lot of questions, but in general what is the feel of each, the demeanor of the people, etc?

-Attitude of the school/students: I've heard Emory can be cutthroat. Can anyone shed light on this? As for BU, this post http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=140358 suggests the faculty is pretty chill. And this http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=107654 makes me think the students aren't particularly over zealous. Anyone have direct knowledge?

-Job Prospects: There seems to be a lot of conflicting information in this realm. I realize that both of these schools are mainly regional and I don't have a problem with that. But how do people fair after graduation relative to their student loans? I hear those 6 figure jobs aren't so easy to come by as those charts on the law school websites make it seem...

And finally, if BU doesn't offer me much (or any) money, would Emory become a natural choice because of the 45k? How would you make the decision between these schools given the financial incentive (I'll be taking out loans for whatever I don't get a scholarship for).

Thanks in advance for all your input!!!

Retake and ED to UVa. Failing that, apply to HYSCCN. Or die alone.

Signed,
TLS Groupthink Club

[pelkin000]

Retake and ED to UVa. Failing that, apply to HYSCCN. Or die alone.

Signed,
TLS Groupthink Club

Lol, couldn't help but laugh at that one.

I'm curious what peoples thoughts are on my chance of getting scholarships, and how much I can negotiate them up. I'm a bit impatient and both Davis and BU are taking their sweet time sending $$ offers. I'd like a realistic picture of my financial situation before I have to drop some more cash for these deposits. Sending deposits to 4 schools won't be cheap, but I feel like Im in a bind trying to decide here. And I am (we are) running out of time until the 1st deposit date. Any thoughts?

[Blindmelon]

Wait for the BU financial aid package. I was all set on WM until BU gave 20k/year.
I honestly think that Emory should get knocked off the list. UGA places on par with Emory (better in clerkships, slightly worse in firms) and seems like it'd be a lot cheaper. Since they both feed into the same region, I don't see any reason why you'd choose Emory over UGA other than lay prestige.
If BU gives you some money, its the obvious choice for the northeast/NYC, but if you want south/southeast, then I'd take UGA.

[zonto]

Also in the "Waiting for Financial Aid From BU Club" brother so I feel your pain!

[pelkin000]

I honestly think that Emory should get knocked off the list. UGA places on par with Emory (better in clerkships, slightly worse in firms) and seems like it'd be a lot cheaper. Since they both feed into the same region, I don't see any reason why you'd choose Emory over UGA other than lay prestige.

Great point. I've been slowly coming to this realization. I think deep down the contest is between BU and Davis, with UGA showing up only because I'll end up taking $80k less in debt overall. But that might be a terrible reason to consider it. The $150k looming debt is freaking me out a bit.

Also in the "Waiting for Financial Aid From BU Club" brother so I feel your pain!

Definitely man. Aggravating to sit around waiting for the letter. I sent them an email asking for more info on scholarship stuff and that seemed to kick them into gear. Got my letter about a week later.

-----------------------------------

I'm curious about people's take on negotiating with BU for more money. My previous negotiating chip (Emory) has now dropped out of range due to the USN rank changes. The acceptance at Davis may be useful, or maybe not. I'm feeling like I don't have anything to really use for leverage. Given the info I've written above, and that I'm from California, anyone have any advice on attempting to negotiate a little more $$ from BU? And, would my best bet be to do this before or after the april 15 deadline?

Actually, now that I think about it, I have basically the same question with UC Davis. California's economy is in the toilet right now and I'm skeptical that Davis will be able to offer any real aid. Does anyone have any insight on that situation and whether or not I'll be able to negotiate anything from them?

[FuManChusco]

BU

[kaspar]

Where do you want to live?
West coast: Davis
Northeast: BU
Southeast: Emory
Georgia: UGA

Pretty simple.

The conventional TLS wisdom that Emory and UGA place similarly in Georgia is somewhat misguided. Big firms will go deeper into Emory's class, but there is an inherent suspicion about Emory students who are not local to the Southeast. Firms suspect they are looking for any job and will high-tail back to XYZ as soon as possible. That is not present for UGA. Further, Emory will take you to many other SE states in a way that UGA will not.

The fact that UGA's clerkship numbers are > Emory's clerkship numbers is a function of the portion of UGA students seeking clerkships in "flyover" GA/FL districts (middle, southern GA, northern, central FL), which is significantly greater than the nonexistent portion of Emory grads seeking clerkships in those districts. Emory grads look for clerkships in N.D.Ga, their home districts, and other major districts, which translates into lower success because they are more competitive positions.

That's not to say that if you want Atlanta/GA and UGA is significantly cheaper it isn't the right choice. It probably is, but for any given class rank, your options are better from Emory than from UGA.

Note: I am an Emory 2L local to the SE. I probably would have gone to GA had Emory not given me substantial money.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

I would go with whichever is cheaper. None of these schools are worth full price. Emory and BU are good options if you get a discount. Hard to argue with cost of living at Emory as well.

[20160810]

IMO this comes down to BU or Davis unless you have a damn good reason to want to be in Georgia. I would say that although they're closely-ranked, BU gives you a better shot at a firm job, so if you just want a firm job and don't care much whether it's in CA or NYC/DC, then go to BU. If you prefer California, go to Davis (I went to Davis over BU due to wanting CA and have been very happy with my choice). I will say though that the NLJ placement data isn't entirely representative. That data makes it look like tons more people get firm jobs from BU, but that's because NLJ firms are mainly in NYC and BU places much better in NYC than does Davis, which places many people into smaller, but decent-paying CA firms which aren't NLJ.

If you have any questions about UCD, or this decision in general, feel free to shoot me a PM. I'm admittedly a UCD student and pretty partisan, but I tend to shoot people pretty straight on this info and seldom get accused of being a Davis troll (though I do love this town a hell of a lot).