Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What's a better route for ADR?

Pepperdine
8
13%
T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA)-feel free to specify
56
88%
 
Total votes: 64

Boggs
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Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby Boggs » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:24 am

I asked a similar question in another thread, but I decided this particular question deserved its own.

I want to do ADR (be a mediator, etc.) and I'm wondering if it would be worth it to bypass the T10s I've been accepted to (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) in favor of Pepperdine's ADR program.

My long term goals include running for public office (probably in the PNW). I figure the mediation skills would translate. I am aware of Pepperdine's political persuasion and though I'm certainly not a conservative, I'd probably run as an independent.

What do you guys think?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:43 am

No. Specialty rankings suck.

bhan87
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby bhan87 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:50 am

Don't base any decisions off specialty rankings unless they're backed by significant academic reputation. I.E picking NYU over Columbia to go into tax law may be sensible because NYUs academic reputation in the field is top notch. No way in hell should you pick Pepperdine over a T14

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:52 am

Boggs wrote:I'd probably run as an independent.


Oh I see.

--ImageRemoved--

Boggs
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby Boggs » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:18 pm

If I may briefly play devil's advocate, I'd like to point out two things.

First, I don't put much stock in USNWR rankings whether they are the general rankings or specialty rankings. The only reason they are meaningful is because people pay attention to them (which makes them important if you plan on basing your career on perceptions and not on substance-I'd like to say that this is point is a lot more nuanced than I'm making it, but I'm not going to dive into it right now). There are two ways to get a good job as a lawyer. First, you can go to a highly ranked school (this route will last you a few years). The other way is to be a good lawyer (this will last you a lifetime).

My second main point is that if you look at the ABA directory for ADR, the difference in class offerings between Pepperdine and the T10s I've mentioned is enormous. Berkeley is the only one that even comes close to having anything substantial compared to Pepperdine.

Pepperdine: --LinkRemoved--
Berkeley: --LinkRemoved--
Michigan: --LinkRemoved--
UVA: --LinkRemoved--

showNprove
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby showNprove » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:36 pm

If you go to Pepperdine, you will have better scholastic training in ADR. If you go to Berkeley, Michigan, or UVA, you will be able to get a job in ADR. Which do you think is more important?

Employers don't care what classes you take because you mostly learn on the job.

JakeL
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby JakeL » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:42 pm

If you can't figure this out on your own, you'll be a perfect fit for our government.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:44 pm

JakeL wrote:If you can't figure this out on your own, you'll be a perfect fit for our government.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:52 pm

Please be a flame. Pepperdine is an absolute joke ITE, go to any T14 T1 school instead.

emmbar53
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby emmbar53 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:14 pm

Boggs wrote:First, I don't put much stock in USNWR rankings whether they are the general rankings or specialty rankings. The only reason they are meaningful is because people pay attention to them (which makes them important if you plan on basing your career on perceptions and not on substance-I'd like to say that this is point is a lot more nuanced than I'm making it, but I'm not going to dive into it right now). There are two ways to get a good job as a lawyer. First, you can go to a highly ranked school (this route will last you a few years). The other way is to be a good lawyer (this will last you a lifetime).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLottSt17iY

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1ferret!
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby 1ferret! » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:05 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Pitt is an absolute joke IN ANY ECONOMY, go to any T14 T1 school instead.


There, fixed that for ya. (tool)

Regardless, Pepperdine is not your best choice here. The specialty depth is not worth the hit you would take in job prospects.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:16 pm

My impression is that Pepperdine is an excellent law school for ADR. The issue, however, is whether one should pass up acceptances to Berkeley, Michigan & Virginia to be able to take extra ADR related courses. In my opinion, the answer is no because most, if not all, state bars offer ADR courses as part of continuing legal education. Go to Virgina, Berkeley or Michigan.

Case2L
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby Case2L » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:30 pm

Has Pepperdine offered you a full ride, a stipend, and the gift of eternal life? If so, then maybe consider. If any one of those 3 things is missing, then no, do not attend Pepperdine. I do not have any special familiarity w/ Pepperdine; I am just speaking from a common sense perspective.

Boggs
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby Boggs » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:06 pm

Case2L wrote:Has Pepperdine offered you a full ride, a stipend, and the gift of eternal life? If so, then maybe consider. If any one of those 3 things is missing, then no, do not attend Pepperdine. I do not have any special familiarity w/ Pepperdine; I am just speaking from a common sense perspective.


I'm pretty sure Pepperdine offers everyone the gift of eternal life. I'm not sure about the other two. They keep sending me emails hinting at the possibility of a full ride, but I haven't applied.

I guess my original question had more to do with whether the content of academics at a particular institution could trump the prestige of another. It seems the consensus in this community is that it can't. Frankly, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not quite comfortable with the concept. My sense is that the legal community has arrived at a pretty bad place if a law school's USNWR ranking supersedes all other considerations. Of course, that's not quite the sentiment that's been expressed here, but it's headed in that direction.

On the other hand, one of my buddies who is a 1L is trying to convince me that everyone learns the same thing in law school (probably restricted to T1s) and that it really doesn't matter where you attend. I disagree with him. But the point is that there is a tremendous disconnect between the hyperbole of the rankings and a more nuanced approach to evaluating them in the context of academic content.

That's my 2 cents and if that's considered a flame, (I'll use Boehner's line about his budget cuts costing the U.S. economy jobs) "so be it."

sarahlawg
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby sarahlawg » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:19 pm

Have you been watching Fairly Legal?

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DCDuck
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby DCDuck » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:25 pm

If you want to run for office in the PNW, consider the University of Oregon. They offer a Master's Degree Program in ADR, which you can either do as a joint law degree, or independently. I do not think you need a law degree to do ADR, at least in some states.

Choose T14, or a regional school where you want to end up practicing/running for office. Unless you want to stay in So Cal, don't pick Pepperdine.

WAinCO
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby WAinCO » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:33 pm

Boggs wrote:
Case2L wrote:Has Pepperdine offered you a full ride, a stipend, and the gift of eternal life? If so, then maybe consider. If any one of those 3 things is missing, then no, do not attend Pepperdine. I do not have any special familiarity w/ Pepperdine; I am just speaking from a common sense perspective.


I'm pretty sure Pepperdine offers everyone the gift of eternal life. I'm not sure about the other two. They keep sending me emails hinting at the possibility of a full ride, but I haven't applied.

I guess my original question had more to do with whether the content of academics at a particular institution could trump the prestige of another. It seems the consensus in this community is that it can't. Frankly, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not quite comfortable with the concept. My sense is that the legal community has arrived at a pretty bad place if a law school's USNWR ranking supersedes all other considerations. Of course, that's not quite the sentiment that's been expressed here, but it's headed in that direction.

On the other hand, one of my buddies who is a 1L is trying to convince me that everyone learns the same thing in law school (probably restricted to T1s) and that it really doesn't matter where you attend. I disagree with him. But the point is that there is a tremendous disconnect between the hyperbole of the rankings and a more nuanced approach to evaluating them in the context of academic content.

That's my 2 cents and if that's considered a flame, (I'll use Boehner's line about his budget cuts costing the U.S. economy jobs) "so be it."


Well said and I could not agree more, kind of tired of reading over and over the T14 or bust idea on TLS. To me seems like a game to some ppl, and im not speaking about everyone not even the majority, and I wonder if they've even thought about the 3years of school or if their just in it to wake up with that number in mind. I think it makes sense that as you say "the content of academics" in your desired field at Pepperdine could trump the overall prestige of a T14...but at least according to most people on here (who are no doubt the very best informed :wink: ) that is not the case. If I was in charge of hiring for a firm, I think it would seem a bit silly just to screen those at T14 schools simply because the "broad" JD program sits atop USNWR. I don't think this is the case but specialty rankings can/should matter if you know for sure what you will focus on and on the flip side, what your firm is hiring for.

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thecilent
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby thecilent » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:41 pm

emmbar53 wrote:
Boggs wrote:First, I don't put much stock in USNWR rankings whether they are the general rankings or specialty rankings. The only reason they are meaningful is because people pay attention to them (which makes them important if you plan on basing your career on perceptions and not on substance-I'd like to say that this is point is a lot more nuanced than I'm making it, but I'm not going to dive into it right now). There are two ways to get a good job as a lawyer. First, you can go to a highly ranked school (this route will last you a few years). The other way is to be a good lawyer (this will last you a lifetime).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLottSt17iY

lol

JakeL
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby JakeL » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:48 pm

Boggs wrote:
Case2L wrote:Has Pepperdine offered you a full ride, a stipend, and the gift of eternal life? If so, then maybe consider. If any one of those 3 things is missing, then no, do not attend Pepperdine. I do not have any special familiarity w/ Pepperdine; I am just speaking from a common sense perspective.


I'm pretty sure Pepperdine offers everyone the gift of eternal life. I'm not sure about the other two. They keep sending me emails hinting at the possibility of a full ride, but I haven't applied.

I guess my original question had more to do with whether the content of academics at a particular institution could trump the prestige of another. It seems the consensus in this community is that it can't. Frankly, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not quite comfortable with the concept. My sense is that the legal community has arrived at a pretty bad place if a law school's USNWR ranking supersedes all other considerations. Of course, that's not quite the sentiment that's been expressed here, but it's headed in that direction.

On the other hand, one of my buddies who is a 1L is trying to convince me that everyone learns the same thing in law school (probably restricted to T1s) and that it really doesn't matter where you attend. I disagree with him. But the point is that there is a tremendous disconnect between the hyperbole of the rankings and a more nuanced approach to evaluating them in the context of academic content.

That's my 2 cents and if that's considered a flame, (I'll use Boehner's line about his budget cuts costing the U.S. economy jobs) "so be it."


Is this how you talk in everyday life?

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Drake014
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby Drake014 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:00 pm

Boggs wrote:
Case2L wrote:Has Pepperdine offered you a full ride, a stipend, and the gift of eternal life? If so, then maybe consider. If any one of those 3 things is missing, then no, do not attend Pepperdine. I do not have any special familiarity w/ Pepperdine; I am just speaking from a common sense perspective.


I'm pretty sure Pepperdine offers everyone the gift of eternal life. I'm not sure about the other two. They keep sending me emails hinting at the possibility of a full ride, but I haven't applied.

I guess my original question had more to do with whether the content of academics at a particular institution could trump the prestige of another. It seems the consensus in this community is that it can't. Frankly, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not quite comfortable with the concept. My sense is that the legal community has arrived at a pretty bad place if a law school's USNWR ranking supersedes all other considerations. Of course, that's not quite the sentiment that's been expressed here, but it's headed in that direction.

On the other hand, one of my buddies who is a 1L is trying to convince me that everyone learns the same thing in law school (probably restricted to T1s) and that it really doesn't matter where you attend. I disagree with him. But the point is that there is a tremendous disconnect between the hyperbole of the rankings and a more nuanced approach to evaluating them in the context of academic content.

That's my 2 cents and if that's considered a flame, (I'll use Boehner's line about his budget cuts costing the U.S. economy jobs) "so be it."


You may have your cause and effect mixed up. The rankings, in a big way, are based on how professionals in the field view schools. I'm at Berkeley, a T10 and I think I would learn just as well if I was at a T2 school. Why? Because professor's at top schools are not there because they're good teachers, they're there because they're somewhat famous (or infamous in some cases, cough, cough, John Yoo). Consequently, a T2 may actually have better professors. What Berkeley has that a T2 doesn't have is connections, good OCI, etc. Its the latter that gets you jobs. A recruiter straight out told me once that he didn't really care about the academics much. He knew that there were legions of law school students that would be able to do the job. Consequently, his interviewing was based more on whether he likes you or not. If he never interviews you, he won't know if he likes you. If your school doesn't have an OCI that his firm goes to, he won't interview you most likely.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:15 pm

1ferret! wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Pitt is an absolute joke IN ANY ECONOMY, go to any T14 T1 school instead.


There, fixed that for ya. (tool)

Regardless, Pepperdine is not your best choice here. The specialty depth is not worth the hit you would take in job prospects.


T2 School that absolutely dominates its secondary market vs. T2 school which gets outplaced by at least 6 IN-STATE schools, the entire t14, and some other T30s in its primary market? I wonder what the consensus on TLS about this will be...

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patrickd139
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:24 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Boggs wrote:I'd probably run as an independent.


Oh I see.

--ImageRemoved--

:lol: Underrated.

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FuManChusco
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADR

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:40 pm

this thread is going to get good if OP keeps defending Pepperdine.

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FuManChusco
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:43 pm

WAinCO wrote: If I was in charge of hiring for a firm, I think it would seem a bit silly just to screen those at T14 schools simply because the "broad" JD program sits atop USNWR.



but you're not.... and they do.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Pepperdine vs. T10s (Berkeley, Michigan, UVA) for ADRv

Postby BarbellDreams » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:46 pm

FuManChusco wrote:
WAinCO wrote: If I was in charge of hiring for a firm, I think it would seem a bit silly just to screen those at T14 schools simply because the "broad" JD program sits atop USNWR.



but you're not.... and they do.


This may be the best response I have read all day on TLS.




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