UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

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JerrySeinfeld
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UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby JerrySeinfeld » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:19 pm

SMU ($75k debt)
UGA ($80k debt)


I don't really have a preference working in Dallas or Atlanta/Georgia. I have family and friends in Atlanta, where Dallas I don't.

I'm basically wondering, assuming both schools are about equal cost, which school has better employment prospects?

kid charlemagne
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby kid charlemagne » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:39 am

I would go with Georgia. It's a better school and Athens would be less expensive to live in than Dallas.

hugo83
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby hugo83 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:41 am

Georgia...your autmatically in the good ol boy network for Atlana and will be set on a job. So many UGA alum in Atlanta and they all scratch each other back.
Also -- Athens is the best college town in the nation, hands down......of course for whn you have time away from studying

gator1
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby gator1 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:44 am

hugo83 wrote:Georgia...your autmatically in the good ol boy network for Atlana and will be set on a job. So many UGA alum in Atlanta and they all scratch each other back.
Also -- Athens is the best college town in the nation, hands down......of course for whn you have time away from studying


you wish! best college town is over in Gainesville aka the Gator Nation pal' get your facts straight.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:47 am

Boulder, Colorado is certainly a contender for best college town, but not relevant to this discussion.

If Georgia is your home & you want to live & work in the Atlanta area, then the choice is clear. (Unfortunately, Georgia State's law school is taking a substantial bite out of Georgia's traditional placement in Atlanta law firms.) SMU has strong placement in the Dallas area & is well respected in Texas.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tea_drinker
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby tea_drinker » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:50 am

JerrySeinfeld wrote:SMU ($75k debt)
UGA ($80k debt)


I don't really have a preference working in Dallas or Atlanta/Georgia. I have family and friends in Atlanta, where Dallas I don't.

I'm basically wondering, assuming both schools are about equal cost, which school has better employment prospects?


+1 for UGA

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patrickd139
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:06 am

UGA. You do not want to try to break into the Dallas market without significant ties beyond going to law school at SMU.

boat343
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby boat343 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:59 am

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20l ... s_main.pdf

Looks like SMU did pretty respectable placing in the NLJ 250. Top 15% there looking pretty solid.

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patrickd139
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:08 am

boat343 wrote:http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20law%20schools_main.pdf

Looks like SMU did pretty respectable placing in the NLJ 250. Top 15% there looking pretty solid.

OP: Please, please, please don't go to SMU (or any law school) banking on being top 15%.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:33 am

If you have ties to Georgia, SMU.

After you graduate, you could work either in Texas or Georgia, instead of just Georgia.

Also, SMU is the best school in a major city and thus provides you with opportunities to intern with a wide variety of employers during the academic year.

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patrickd139
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:36 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:If you have ties to Georgia, SMU.

After you graduate, you could work either in Texas or Georgia, instead of just Georgia.

I curious about why you think this is true.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:46 pm

Let's assume that regardless of what school he/she attends, his/her first year gpa is a 3.6.

If he/she attends UGA, he/she will be hyper competitive in Atlanta. However, Texas employers will shrug if he/she attempts to apply to them because he/she has no ties to Texas.

If he/she attends SMU, he/she will be hyper competitive in Dallas and Atlanta. He/she has family in Atlanta, which would allow him/her to secure employment there - as everyone knows, most markets outside of NYC/DC are very interested in ties. By attending SMU, he/she has developed a strong tie to Dallas and thus would be competitive with employers there. Hell, if he/she struck out in Atlanta and Dallas he/she might be able to persuade SMU to pay employers to take him/her. Of course, that wouldn't happen if he/she had a 3.6.

I'm not sure why this is not very clear.

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Fred_McGriff
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby Fred_McGriff » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:10 pm

Whoever said Athens Ga. was the best college town in America is correct. My entire family is from Charlottesville, and I went to UVA, I'm extremely biased, but Athens still wins.

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patrickd139
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:21 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:I'm not sure why this is not very clear.

Because s/he cannot possibly guarantee a 3.6 GPA from either of those schools.

ETA: It seems to me like you haven't been through 2L OCI at a regional law school halfway across the country from your home market. Your logic might work if we could assume things like a 3.6 GPA or if were were talking about HLS v. CLS (or any two national schools). UGA and SMU are both very regional. When giving advice to faceless strangers on the internet with no knowledge of anything about them other than an original post, why would you assume anything other than grades at the median of any school?

My underlying point is this: I'd much, much rather be at the median of a regional law school in the region I have ties to, than at the median of a regional law school in a region I have no ties to. Desire to practice in a region is not a significant tie.

krillas
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby krillas » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:45 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:If you have ties to Georgia, SMU.

After you graduate, you could work either in Texas or Georgia, instead of just Georgia.

Horrible advice.
Decide which place you'd rather end up in (Texas or Georgia) and choose accordingly.
Simple as that.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:08 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:I'm not sure why this is not very clear.

Because s/he cannot possibly guarantee a 3.6 GPA from either of those schools.

Well if he/she has a 2.0 from either, it won't matter much at all because he/she won't be getting a jerb period. I used 3.6 because 3.6 from either should be guarantee a good job.

I'm not certain when you became an expert at certain things, but I have performed the very act that you claim to know that I haven't. I've mass mailed to my home market from Tulane and did really well. The primary issue I faced was that most of the secondary markets in the south haven't recovered much at all (many have no 2011 summer associate programs).

Your last argument makes complete sense. But I would counter with:
1: He/she could gain experience working during the academic year in Dallas and this would be extremely helpful in finding that all important first job - this is not possible from UGA (at least, it would be harder to do because fewer possibilities = more competition from classmates). Would you rather be unemployed in Georgia or employed in Dallas? I would go with the latter.
2: While desiring to practice in a particular region is not a significant tie, (A) attending law school there is and (B) having family there is. Thus, OP would have "ties" to two states instead of just one - which means that, in theory, the job possibilities have at least doubled.

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patrickd139
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:00 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Well if he/she has a 2.0 from either, it won't matter much at all because he/she won't be getting a jerb period. I used 3.6 because 3.6 from either should be guarantee a good job.

I'm not certain when you became an expert at certain things, but I have performed the very act that you claim to know that I haven't. I've mass mailed to my home market from Tulane and did really well. The primary issue I faced was that most of the secondary markets in the south haven't recovered much at all (many have no 2011 summer associate programs).

Your last argument makes complete sense. But I would counter with:
1: He/she could gain experience working during the academic year in Dallas and this would be extremely helpful in finding that all important first job - this is not possible from UGA (at least, it would be harder to do because fewer possibilities = more competition from classmates). Would you rather be unemployed in Georgia or employed in Dallas? I would go with the latter.
2: While desiring to practice in a particular region is not a significant tie, (A) attending law school there is and (B) having family there is. Thus, OP would have "ties" to two states instead of just one - which means that, in theory, the job possibilities have at least doubled.

Please don't confuse the confidence in my assertion that comes from my experience and research with me claiming to be an expert.

Congrats on your success (Sincerely. Not trying to be an ass.), but I think the advice you're giving still reflects results that are atypical from the legal market as a whole. I wouldn't give myself the same advice (essentially: go to a regional school far from your home legal market; don't worry, making it back to your home market or into that school's market is cake because you'll have a 3.6).

I still have a huge problem with your assertion that OP should evaluate job prospects on the assumption they'll have a 3.6. That the completely arbitrary number is your cutoff for being guaranteed a "good job" does not convince me. There are numerous out of market students at my current T2 with a 3.6 who do not have jobs. And it's not because they didn't try.

Moreover, the awful state of the job market for 2011 SAs in the south, if anything, weakens your argument.

As for your counters:
1a) When are you proposing OP get "meaningful work experience" during the academic year? During OP's first year? That's a pretty heavy workload at a well-respected T1 ITE. Also, who's going to hire a 1L to do meaningful work? 1Ls know nothing and will be drowning in LRW, briefs, moot court, all the things full time students should be doing 1L year. During OP's 2L year, after OCI, when all the "good jobs" which require 3.6s have come and gone?

1b) The point of giving advice is to steer people from being unemployed anywhere. But for argument's sake, if I were OP (making the assumption that OP could move back in with the parents), I'd want to be unemployed somewhere that didn't charge me rent. If OP can't move back in with the parents, my suspicion is that GA rent is cheaper than DFW rent. Either way,

2) Re-read it the OP, OP doesn't have family in Dallas. My entire argument works off this premise. I'll cede your point that going to law school is a market is one tie. Counter: it's only one step removed from desire to work in a market. That's not significant enough ITE. It's a serious problem I ran into, and I'm only one state over and four or five hours in drive-time from my hometown.

TL;DR: Is it possible to get a job in Dallas at the median with no ties to the area except an SMU degree? Yes, but I choose to give advice on internet fora based on probable, not possible.

keg411
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby keg411 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:05 pm

UGA definitely. If you can't go to a T13, going to school in your home market is your best bet.

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patrickd139
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:07 pm

keg411 wrote:UGA definitely. If you can't go to a T13, going to school in your home market is your best bet.

Bah. You and your egregious anti-GULC trolling. *shakes fist*

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:18 am

1a. The experience would be gained while the OP is a 2L. The OP will most likely strike out at OCI. This is true at almost every school outside the T14. Given this fact, meaningful work experience will make the OP more attractive to employers regardless of where he/she goes. I'm not sure if you are a 1L, but non-hyper prestigious employers care far more about work experience in law school than almost anything else.

1b. I don't think the OP said he/she could stay with his/her parents. If that is indeed the case, then UGA would be a more attractive option. However, that doesn't change the fact that the OP would be able to find a job in both Texas and Georgia from SMU as opposed to only GA from UGA.

2. I never stated that the OP had family in Dallas. I asserted that the OP's ties to GA would be enough to make him/her competitive for employment in GA with an SMU degree. Once again, if the OP strikes out at OCI (which he/she most likely will) - getting the experience from working in Dallas during the academic year would be enough of a tie to attract non-hyper prestigious employers to interview him/her.

It sounds like you are basing your advice off of solely OCI prospects and that is not a smart thing to do for schools outside of the T14. OCI prospects are irrelevant from either school because the OP will most likely strike out at high profile employment regardless of which one he/she chooses. If the OP does strike out, his/her work experience will be very meaningful to employers - For example, I had an interview with a couple of AR NLJ 250 firms that asked about some of my work experience in New Orleans (ditto with a couple of Texas firms/a handful of Mississippi firms/etc.).

keg411
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:06 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
keg411 wrote:UGA definitely. If you can't go to a T13, going to school in your home market is your best bet.

Bah. You and your egregious anti-GULC trolling. *shakes fist*


:D :lol:

dissonance1848
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby dissonance1848 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:11 pm

Whoever said decide where you want to practice first is right. Connections matter at the margins, but they won't cover your ass if the decion making is off. If you want to practice in GA, go to UGA. If you want TX, go to SMU. Although you may not have connections to TX, its obvious to firms by your going to SMU that you want TX.

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Rooney
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Re: UGA ($) vs. SMU ($$$)

Postby Rooney » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:35 pm

Fred_McGriff wrote:Whoever said Athens Ga. was the best college town in America is correct. My entire family is from Charlottesville, and I went to UVA, I'm extremely biased, but Athens still wins.


+1 Athens (as a college town) is unbeatable.

Gainseville? HAhahahaha




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