2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

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Patriot1208
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:26 pm

FiveSermon wrote:Why does B get so much hate? Their placements seem in line with other non HYS t14 schools. Is it because they have a low LSAT median?

Because they pretentiously don't give out grades and there is a definite east coast bias to most things in the United States.
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FiveSermon
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:28 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Why does B get so much hate? Their placements seem in line with other non HYS t14 schools. Is it because they have a low LSAT median?

Because they pretentiously don't give out grades and their is a definite east coast bias to most things in the United States.


B doesn't give out grades? Wow. I'm surprised firms hire from B so much without grades go base students upon. I mean if you got into HYS then yeah...grades can be set aside. But B?

09042014
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:32 pm

This data is from 2008 OCI, that happened mostly before the economy crashed.

Duke sucked because Southern firms took a whole bunch of 2L Summer Associates, then didn't give half of them jobs. This is the reason why Cornell sucked last year. Because NYC did that in 2008 but not as much in 2009.

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Patriot1208
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:32 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Why does B get so much hate? Their placements seem in line with other non HYS t14 schools. Is it because they have a low LSAT median?

Because they pretentiously don't give out grades and their is a definite east coast bias to most things in the United States.


B doesn't give out grades? Wow. I'm surprised firms hire from B so much without grades go base students upon. I mean if you got into HYS then yeah...grades can be set aside. But B?

Ya, that is a big reason they get a lot of shit and there have been several threads in the employment forum where berk students in the middle of the class have said they think the grading system has hurt them because it it's very hard to differentiate in the middle third.

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Knock
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Knock » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:35 pm

Tagged. Why are there like 4 threads on this lol, it's hard to keep up with all the discussion.

FiveSermon
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby FiveSermon » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:36 pm

Knock wrote:Tagged. Why are there like 4 threads on this lol, it's hard to keep up with all the discussion.


They all talk about the same thing anyways. Wtf Cornell. Wtf Duke. Wtf NYU. Wtf Vandy.

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beachbum
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby beachbum » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:57 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Why does B get so much hate? Their placements seem in line with other non HYS t14 schools. Is it because they have a low LSAT median?

Because they pretentiously don't give out grades and there is a definite east coast bias to most things in the United States.


I think that's part of it, and I think the other part has a lot to do with their admissions policies and the types of students they attract. Also, fuckin hippies, bro.

But seriously, in terms of BigLaw placement, they're definitely peers with MVPDNC.

Casey2889
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Casey2889 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:53 am

ImpatientlyWaiting wrote:These rankings are utterly useless without knowing about clerkship and public interest placement. I really don't understand why everyone makes such a big deal out of it.


this. i don't think anyone would dare go to cornell over stanford or yale.

flcath
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby flcath » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:18 pm

Casey2889 wrote:
ImpatientlyWaiting wrote:These rankings are utterly useless without knowing about clerkship and public interest placement. I really don't understand why everyone makes such a big deal out of it.


this. i don't think anyone would dare go to cornell over stanford or yale.

Well no shit, but they're still meaningful. Just not for that type of comparison.

FreddyBigShot
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby FreddyBigShot » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:11 pm

Where is the list at? I can't access it -- can someone post the top twenty with percentages?

fogcue2
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby fogcue2 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:41 pm

When can we expect to see the clerkships added in? I think this would be helpful to see which schools were best able to place clerks with the increased competition for Biglaw.

Also no IU-B again in the top 50, kind of makes me wonder about the Vault ranking from a few years ago. With all of the effort they are making to bring in higher quality students with big money, when is it going to show up in the output?

cornellbeez
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby cornellbeez » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:48 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Why does B get so much hate? Their placements seem in line with other non HYS t14 schools. Is it because they have a low LSAT median?

Because they pretentiously don't give out grades and their is a definite east coast bias to most things in the United States.


B doesn't give out grades? Wow. I'm surprised firms hire from B so much without grades go base students upon. I mean if you got into HYS then yeah...grades can be set aside. But B?


Uh, they have grades.
There's "low pass", "pass" = bottom 60%, honors = next 30%, and high honors = top 10%. In other words, P, H, and HH replace C, B, and A. You really can't be this clueless after spending 2 months on TLS.

Fwiw, this data is pretty unrepresentative of what happened to the Classes of 2011 and 2012. I bet data for those classes will look completely different.

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Patriot1208
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:51 pm

cornellbeez wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Why does B get so much hate? Their placements seem in line with other non HYS t14 schools. Is it because they have a low LSAT median?

Because they pretentiously don't give out grades and their is a definite east coast bias to most things in the United States.


B doesn't give out grades? Wow. I'm surprised firms hire from B so much without grades go base students upon. I mean if you got into HYS then yeah...grades can be set aside. But B?


Uh, they have grades.
There's "low pass", "pass" = bottom 60%, honors = next 30%, and high honors = top 10%. In other words, P, H, and HH replace C, B, and A. You really can't be this clueless after spending 2 months on TLS.

Fwiw, this data is pretty unrepresentative of what happened to the Classes of 2011 and 2012. I bet data for those classes will look completely different.


Ya, bro, that's called not giving out grades. In no way does lp - p - h coincide with a b+ curve on an A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C scale.

cornellbeez
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby cornellbeez » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:56 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
cornellbeez wrote: Uh, they have grades.
There's "low pass", "pass" = bottom 60%, honors = next 30%, and high honors = top 10%. In other words, P, H, and HH replace C, B, and A. You really can't be this clueless after spending 2 months on TLS.

Fwiw, this data is pretty unrepresentative of what happened to the Classes of 2011 and 2012. I bet data for those classes will look completely different.


Ya, bro, that's called not giving out grades. In no way does lp - p - h coincide with a b+ curve on an A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C scale.


You're an idiot. Those are grades, especially considering they are on a mandatory curve.

P = B+ to F
H = A- to B+
HH = A

I would hate being getting median or slightly above in every class at Boalt, because it would look like I were bottom 10% of the class with straight Ps.

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Patriot1208
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:09 pm

cornellbeez wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
cornellbeez wrote: Uh, they have grades.
There's "low pass", "pass" = bottom 60%, honors = next 30%, and high honors = top 10%. In other words, P, H, and HH replace C, B, and A. You really can't be this clueless after spending 2 months on TLS.

Fwiw, this data is pretty unrepresentative of what happened to the Classes of 2011 and 2012. I bet data for those classes will look completely different.


Ya, bro, that's called not giving out grades. In no way does lp - p - h coincide with a b+ curve on an A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C scale.


You're an idiot. Those are grades, especially considering they are on a mandatory curve.

P = B+ to F
H = A- to B+
HH = A

I would hate being getting median or slightly above in every class at Boalt, because it would look like I were bottom 10% of the class with straight Ps.


Odd that you called me an idiot when you are arguing semantics. Whether or not you want to call HH-H-P "grades", it is a pretentious system that doesn't even closely coincide with any other law school in the country besides HYS. It does the students a disservice and that's why it gets hated on. So, whether or not you want to argue that it's a "grade" it isn't one that even closely resembles its peers.

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Reedie
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Reedie » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:This data is from 2008 OCI, that happened mostly before the economy crashed.

Duke sucked because Southern firms took a whole bunch of 2L Summer Associates, then didn't give half of them jobs. This is the reason why Cornell sucked last year. Because NYC did that in 2008 but not as much in 2009.


This is a good point. Because of the forum, posters here are likely to obsess over which schools placed better or worse in these statistics. But--going from year to year--what this information really demonstrates is the extreme volatility in the hiring market these last few years. It's been a wild ride.

Cornell students are right to point out that the school has received an unnecessary amount of negative attention mainly because of the number US News assigns it, and probably also because of its lower LSAT median. Incidentally, I wonder how many of the same students who rag on Cornell's LSAT, bitched about the "numbers game" or about "yield protection" during their application cycle. In any event, I really liked Cornell and almost wound up going there. Its proximity to NYC and strong rep will probably always keep it placing fairly well so long as NYC isn't imploding.

FiveSermon
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby FiveSermon » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:14 pm

Reedie wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:This data is from 2008 OCI, that happened mostly before the economy crashed.

Duke sucked because Southern firms took a whole bunch of 2L Summer Associates, then didn't give half of them jobs. This is the reason why Cornell sucked last year. Because NYC did that in 2008 but not as much in 2009.


This is a good point. Because of the forum, posters here are likely to obsess over which schools placed better or worse in these statistics. But--going from year to year--what this information really demonstrates is the extreme volatility in the hiring market these last few years. It's been a wild ride.

Cornell students are right to point out that the school has received an unnecessary amount of negative attention mainly because of the number US News assigns it, and probably also because of its lower LSAT median. Incidentally, I wonder how many of the same students who rag on Cornell's LSAT, bitched about the "numbers game" or about "yield protection" during their application cycle. In any event, I really liked Cornell and almost wound up going there. Its proximity to NYC and strong rep will probably always keep it placing fairly well so long as NYC isn't imploding.


Where did you end up going?

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Reedie
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Reedie » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:29 pm

FiveSermon wrote:Where did you end up going?


Duke.

clone22
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby clone22 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:41 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
cornellbeez wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
cornellbeez wrote: Uh, they have grades.
There's "low pass", "pass" = bottom 60%, honors = next 30%, and high honors = top 10%. In other words, P, H, and HH replace C, B, and A. You really can't be this clueless after spending 2 months on TLS.

Fwiw, this data is pretty unrepresentative of what happened to the Classes of 2011 and 2012. I bet data for those classes will look completely different.


Ya, bro, that's called not giving out grades. In no way does lp - p - h coincide with a b+ curve on an A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, C+, C scale.


You're an idiot. Those are grades, especially considering they are on a mandatory curve.

P = B+ to F
H = A- to B+
HH = A

I would hate being getting median or slightly above in every class at Boalt, because it would look like I were bottom 10% of the class with straight Ps.


Odd that you called me an idiot when you are arguing semantics. Whether or not you want to call HH-H-P "grades", it is a pretentious system that doesn't even closely coincide with any other law school in the country besides HYS. It does the students a disservice and that's why it gets hated on. So, whether or not you want to argue that it's a "grade" it isn't one that even closely resembles its peers.



Dunno if it's pretentious or not, but the system does cover the ass of the below median students (some argue at the expense of the median students). However, I'm not sure how much it is hated by students (within berkeley) because even a "median student" would be able to get H's and HH's in some classes, so how much of a "median" you are is determined by your ratio of Ps to non-Ps. That and Berk has the lowest acceptance rate outside of HYS, meaning at least some of B hate is based on rejection (I for one, hate upenn cuz they rejected me).

Rory1987
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Rory1987 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:42 pm

Damn. What happened to Vandy?

09042014
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Rory1987 wrote:Damn. What happened to Vandy?


Southern firm offer rates were shit.

Rory1987
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Rory1987 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Rory1987 wrote:Damn. What happened to Vandy?


Southern firm offer rates were shit.


But I thought Chicago was crap, too, and UC did great. Was NYC the only market not destroyed and hence why Cornell did so well (though why/how did they beat NYU by so much?). Hopefully Vandy's Career Services starts focusing on NY.

Rory1987
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby Rory1987 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:05 pm

On the other hand, it's nice to see that UCLA is still placing just over a third into BigLaw. However, as someone considering Texas, UCLA, and Vandy, this recent news just coplicates things, but until now I assumed Vandy beat them pretty handily when it came to BigLaw placement. Sigh.

keg411
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby keg411 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Rory1987 wrote:Was NYC the only market not destroyed and hence why Cornell did so well (though why/how did they beat NYU by so much?). Hopefully Vandy's Career Services starts focusing on NY.


Yes, and I'd argue that is still true.

FiveSermon
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Re: 2011 NLJ BigLaw Placement Rankings

Postby FiveSermon » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:20 pm

keg411 wrote:
Rory1987 wrote:Was NYC the only market not destroyed and hence why Cornell did so well (though why/how did they beat NYU by so much?). Hopefully Vandy's Career Services starts focusing on NY.


Yes, and I'd argue that is still true.


Sad thing is it's probably not that easy to change their main target area.




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